Chipset fan replacement question

[fallensight]

The NB fan on my msi k8n neo4 plat died on me recently. I ordered a Vantec http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835110103 to replace it based on acouple references.

I got the stock fan off without any problems. But putting the new one on brings a few up, and the fan came with no real instructions(just a small drawing on the back of the box). The NB chip sitis in the middle of the green larger chip, but there are other silver raised parts on the green section. The stock fan had what looked like 2 types of thermal compound on it. There was a thermal tape that ran around the edge, with a 'window(for lack of a better word)" around where the silver chip would rest and where a thermal grease was applied. The other smaller silver points have indentations on the tape.

What came with the Vantec fan is some strips of 3m thermal tape and a tube of thermal grease. What is my best option with the thermal compunds? And if the tape is the better option, does the adhesive side atach to to the heatsink and the 'melt on" side face the chip?

thanks in advance.

 

[fallensight]

I found a picture of the chipset chip withthe heatsink removed, as ny description is a bit rough http://www.legionhardware.com/pic.php?i...=/Pics/Thermalright_HR-05/Image_12.jpg

 

[dawza]

I am not familiar with the mobo you have, but if it is anything like the Asus NF4 chipset, that thermal tape with the "window" that you refer to is really a shim designed to protect the exposed NF4 core from uneven heatsink weight distribution. I have heard of some people reusing this shim, while others have done away with it. I recently changed my NF4 cooling solution and ditched the shim because it was in pretty ratty condition. If yours is still salvageable, it would not hurt to reuse it. If you are careful, use of the shim will not be necessary even if you are mounting a heatsink that uses push-pins. Still, its presence might afford you a bit more safety. The silver chip (NF4 core) has thermal interface material (grease) to enhance the contact between it and the old heatsink surface for better thermal transfer.

As far as installation of the Vantec HSF- reports I have read indicate that the mounting holes on this fan do not perfectly match with those on the mobo. Therefore, if you wish to use the push pins for mounting (which, in conjunction with a quality thermal compound is the preferred method for security of attachment and cooling performance), you may have to modify the Vantec (dremel). There are a few threads floating around on this forum, hardforums, and silentpcreview that deal with aftermarket NB heatsinks and the Vantec in particular, which may be helpful to you.

You could use thermal tape for mounting, which would obviously be the easiest solution (peel and stick). However, I would feel most comfortable with a "hard" mounting solution vs. a "soft" one such as tape. The thermal transfer will also be inferior with tape vs. a properly applied, quality thermal interface material (i.e. AS Ceramique). Thermal expoxy is a more secure option, but also a very permanent one. With respect to your question about the tape- it should be sticky on both sides, and its adhesive nature should be somewhat augmented with heat exposure, although it will not fully "melt" per se. You would only use the thermal grease with the push-pins, as the grease is not adhesive. In other words, tape by itself, or grease + push-pins. If you go the latter route, make sure you follow the manufacturer's instructions for thermal grease application- you do not want to use any more than you have to, both for the sake of performance and to prevent spillover from wreaking havoc with exposed leads (a remote but real possibility).

Whatever approach you decide to take, make sure you clean off the old thermal compound on the chip's core with high-purity rubbing alcohol or acetone.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[fallensight]

if igo with the grease, do i need to have the grease on just the core? or anywhere(the other silver parts) that the fan will make contact with?

 

[dawza]

This is how I apply AS Ceramique- other greases may be a bit different, but not by too much:

1. Clean the surface with a lint-free cloth using high-purity rubbing alcohol (preferably >70%, although standard 70% works). Lens paper is a good choice as a lint-free cleaning cloth, and coffee filters work as well.

2. Allow to dry- do not touch the surface with your bare skin after cleaning.

3. Put on a latex/vinyl glove or cover your index finger with some type of clean plastic film.

4. Place a small dot of grease on your finger- for a heatsink the size of the Vantec, something the size of half of a grain of rice will be sufficient.

5. Rub the grease over the cleaned heatsink until it is evenly covered. This may take a little effort if the grease is not warmed up, as it will be somewhat stiff.

6. Wipe off ALL of the grease you just applied with a clean lint-free cloth. You will not be able to clean everything off, which is fine. When you are finished, there should be a somewhat dull haze of grease left on the heatsink. This is what you want.

7. Clean the NF4 core with alcohol as specified above. Allow to dry.

8. Place a dab of grease on your plastic-covered index finger about 1/2 the size that you used for the heatsink (1/4 the size of a grain of rice). Cover the entire surface of the core (the shiny silver part) with a THIN layer of grease- you should be able to just make out some of the markings on the core through the grease. Remember- THIN but uniform is the key here. You need the grease to fill microscopic gaps and valleys in the metal of the core and heatsink- not to act as the primary transfer medium.

9. Install the heatsink- if you need to reseat or slightly adjust the heatsink after making contact with the core, you should still be OK without having to re-apply grease. No other parts need grease.

 

[JSFLY]

Thanks for such a concise answer Dawza. I have a similar situation where I have recently replaced the stock NB fan on the DFI Lanparty NF4-D with a vantec chipset cooler and I havent been getting the temps I want. I used Arctic Silver 5, but you mentioned ceramique in your reply. Does it matter if I use ceramique vs AS5 for this type of cooling solution?

Thanks.

 

[BassBomb]

you need that edge thing ... so u dont bend the die :S

 

[dawza]

JSFLY- I have never used AS5, but from what others have reported, the difference between Ceramique and AS5 is 1-2C in favor of AS5, so I doubt that either will make that much of a difference. I chose Ceramique because it was more economical, and supposedly easier to handle.

What temps are you getting, idle/load?

 

[fallensight]

Well, i followed Dawza's checklist and it went in smoothly. However now the system wont get to the post screen. It hangs at the "Platinum" logo and the D-bracket(msi slef test type thing) says it is at 'Bios Sign On' and it hangs there. I have taken the system apart and re connected the power and other connections several times. i'm confident all the connections are right, and have been trying it with only 1 stick of ram(tried different ones) and only the windows HDD connected, and im still stuck. Any ideas on other things i can try to get back up and running?

 

[dawza]

The Vantec may not have RPM monitoring capabilities- perhaps your mobo will not boot without a fan attached to the NB fan header that is capable of RPM sensing? Try plugging the Vantec fan onto another header, and plug in a fan that you know can monitor RPMs (i.e. your old chipset fan) onto the NB fan header and see if that doesn't work. You may want to completely disconnect power and reset CMOS first.

 

[JSFLY]

my nb idles at around 45-46 and loads @ 50. Fan turns up 100% at 50 so it doesnt go over 50 but its real loud. Actually my stock fan was abit better than the vantec. Im going to follow your steps this weekend and reseat my NB HSF.

 

[fallensight]

tried the old fan plugged in, still same thing. I'm at a total loss. Looking like I might end up needing to replace the board

 

[dawza]

Originally posted by: JSFLY
my nb idles at around 45-46 and loads @ 50. Fan turns up 100% at 50 so it doesnt go over 50 but its real loud. Actually my stock fan was abit better than the vantec. Im going to follow your steps this weekend and reseat my NB HSF.

Just came across this thread on dfistreet that may be of interest to you:

link


Fallensight- Have you searched dfi-street forums yet? They might be able to help you.

link

As a final thought- how did you attach the Vantec, and are you sure the heatsink is not contacting anything or shorting out the board?

Good luck with the board- sorry to hear about the problem

Edit: For some reason I thought you had a DFI board but I see you have an MSI- still, there are some experienced people at DFI and many posts about NF4 heatsink replacement, so maybe you can find something of relevance.

See if this thread helps any: Link

 

[fallensight]

I do have a thread at the MSI user forums also, but that hasnt turned any results yet. I'm fairly sure it isnt contacting anything, it really isnt any bigger than the stock fan, and doesnt apear to be touching anithing other than the NB chip. WIth the 'plug/pin/clips'(not sure what exactly they are called) nothing metal from the fan is even touching the board. just the clips through the factory drilled holes that the stock fan came through.

 

[dawza]

Link

Have you read through this thread? Sounds similar to what you are experiencing.

 

[fallensight]

I appreiciate all the time and help DAwza, but it really looks like my board is dead. I have followed through at least half a dozen different guides nad trouble shooting lists and nada. I dont even get the alarm beeps that everything talks about for things missing like vid cards. Just 1 short beep when the power first comes on, like it has done sence day1. Looks like im gonna end up sheling some cash out fora new board. It wont be an MSI this time though.

 

[dawza]

Sorry to hear about your bad luck. Any idea at what might have killed the board, or when?

Hope your next mobo treats you better.

 

[fallensight]

no idea what killed it. It worked before the NB fan replacement, and after never got past the splash screen. Replacing the fan alone makes it non-rma-able so looks like its time to read around and see who has the best set-ups right now. Though from a little bit, all the NB fans are junk. Would be nice if the MB makers would pop the couple extra bucks for a quality fan like the aftermarket people make, most buyers would pay5-10 more for a board that the fan will last on.

 

[dawza]

Agreed on the NB fan comment. The NF4 runs HOT and it is ridiculous that buyers should have to either manually replace the stock fan with an aftermarket solution (and risk their warranty), or RMA the board when the fan dies and wait for weeks for a replacement that will probably die again.

If you are not using a case that inverts the mobo, you might want to look into a heatpipe-cooled chipset. Asus has two and Abit has one, to my knowledge.

You could even buy a cheaper Asus A8N-E or vanilla A8N-SLI board, take the NB fan off, and install the heatpipe normally found on the more expensive Premium board. I recently did this as outlined in this thread

Hope things work out.

 

[fallensight]

Well, I decided as anything I do today wouldnt make any difference till monday, I decided to rip the whole thing down again( as i reakky had nothing else to do), cleaned and remounted everything, and the blasted thing decided that now it would start. All the connects are exactly the same as they always were, no idea why it decided to start up this time. But Ill take it.

 

[dawza]

Nice!

How is the new chipset fan treating you?

 

[fallensight]

it brought the case and vid card temps down acouple degrees C, which is good. And it is alot quiter than the stock fan. So all in all its doin good.