Chinese solar panels failing.

[techs]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/29/business/energy-environment/solar-powers-dark-side.html?hp&_r=0

Solar Industry Anxious Over Defective Panels

LOS ANGELES — The solar panels covering a vast warehouse roof in the sun-soaked Inland Empire region east of Los Angeles were only two years into their expected 25-year life span when they began to fail.

Coatings that protect the panels disintegrated while other defects caused two fires that took the system offline for two years, costing hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost revenues.

It was not an isolated incident. Worldwide, testing labs, developers, financiers and insurers are reporting similar problems and say the $77 billion solar industry is facing a quality crisis just as solar panels are on the verge of widespread adoption.

No one is sure how pervasive the problem is. There are no industrywide figures about defective solar panels. And when defects are discovered, confidentiality agreements often keep the manufacturer’s identity secret, making accountability in the industry all the more difficult.

But at stake are billions of dollars that have financed solar installations, from desert power plants to suburban rooftops, on the premise that solar panels will more than pay for themselves over a quarter century.




Did anyone NOT see this coming?

 

[Vdubchaos]

Little savings in the name of less quality....they most likely got what they paid for.

China is perfectly capable of producing ANY quality product, but it comes down to the price/quality of materials that UPPER MANAGEMENT approves.

In most cases they cut down to get better profit at the price of lesser quality (consumer is guilty of that as well)

Before you spend BILLIONS, they should test the CRAP out of those panels or at least prove it's reliability record etc

 

[heymrdj]

Not surprised. The realization that solar energy just isn't viable right now in a cost benefit standpoint just doesn't settle with some folks. So they cheapen the panels to make them more available and this is what you get.

 

[Jimzz]

Thats why its best to buy things of this nature from a good namebrand that has money to back up its warrantys.

 

[kranky]

I feel certain this will prove to be a rampant problem, not isolated. I'm sure someone thought about the upside involved with selling billions of dollars worth of products that should last 25 years, but building them to last a fraction of that. By the time SHTF, too bad, try to get a refund.

They are making counterfeit fasteners and other safety-critical items that find their way into the legit supply chain due to greed on the part of middlemen. I think we can look forward to other disasters and accidents that will turn out to be caused by shoddily made parts.

Look at how many companies that rushed to manufacture in China are bringing that work back to the US. And those are companies that have direct control of the work there!

 

[rsutoratosu]

Dont forget to return the chinese pork

 

[AstroManLuca]

Chinese manufacturing is great for certain things. Cheap things that you don't care if they fail.

Solar panels are not one of those things.

 

[Rumpltzer]

Remember when motherboard makers started labeling their stuff as "ultra durable"?

Fossil fuel companies should start doing the same.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

The population of the rust belt is laughing at you from their dirt-floored hovels, but not loudly enough that monied interests would deny them a second chance at manufacturing durable goods.

Just, you know... here's their number. Give 'em a call if you're feeling... like... squirrely. Maybe want to do a little domestic manufacturing infrastructure reinvestment with an old friend you haven't seen since before you married China. Maybe bring in a few new factories for fun.

 

[Puppies04]

Before you spend BILLIONS, they should test the CRAP out of those panels or at least prove it's reliability record etc

Damn right!!!! Before you sell me anything with an estimated 25 year life you had better have tested it for 25 years first....

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Damn right!!!! Before you sell me anything with an estimated 25 year life you had better have tested it for 25 years first....

Or at least using the accelerated aging techniques (rapid shifts between temperature extremes combined with occasional simulated precipitation) the automotive industry has been using for decades?

They probably did that successfully, decided they were "designed" to last 25 years, then proceeded to order lower-grade materials to build the production runs.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Damn right!!!! Before you sell me anything with an estimated 25 year life you had better have tested it for 25 years first....

Uhhh, don't these things need like UL certification etc.?

Or at least using the accelerated aging techniques (rapid shifts between temperature extremes combined with occasional simulated precipitation) the automotive industry has been using for decades?

They probably did that successfully, decided they were "designed" to last 25 years, then proceeded to order lower-grade materials to build the production runs.

You realize that accelerated aging is part of how industry tests things? I worked in solar and no doubt we did accelerated aging for UL certification. The same goes with medical devices, cars, etc. The usage of accelerated aging isn't bad. You just have to prove how its equivalent. So either the test method they used was flawed, or they didn't obtain proper certification, or there was a lot of under the table dealings where they got certified when their actual product is crap, etc.

Maybe the whole 25 year rating is BS to begin with. You know those CFLs that are rated 10 years? Yeah. Those burn out every year. Makes you wonder WTF the 10 year certification even means. Test method validation is important, and if you have a BS test method, your results don't mean anything. Why else do you think EPA refined the MPG tests on cars in 2008? Because the old inflated figures don't mean crap.

 

[Svnla]

Dont forget to return the chinese pork

Or chicken, or beef, or lamb, or anything that you consume orally.


Want some rat...ahem..lamb meat cheap? = http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/05/03/china-rat-meat/2133157/


Come get some roadkill...eh...pork = http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/05/06/40-tons-of-tainted-pork-allegedly-sold-in-china/

 

[jagec]

Why else do you think EPA refined the MPG tests on cars in 2008? Because the old inflated figures don't mean crap.

That's not true. If you didn't get your EPA estimated mileage on the old figures, it's because you were using the AC or driving more aggressively than you had to.

It's just that almost EVERYONE uses the AC and drives aggressively. But the old figures were still valid estimates of what the car was capable of.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Wow that sucks. Solar panels arn't cheap either. I'd be pissed. Is there even non chinese solar panels though? Or more specificly, solar cells? It's easy to buy a bunch of cells and make a panel, but if the cells come from China, same issue.

 

[Sonikku]

China sells cheap junk knock offs of the technology and designs they steal from everyone else. Of course the quality isn't going to be up to par.

 

[desura]

Poor Solyndra. They were driven out of business by these cheap unreliable panels.

 

[zinfamous]

Little savings in the name of less quality....they most likely got what they paid for.

China is perfectly capable of producing ANY quality product, but it comes down to the price/quality of materials that UPPER MANAGEMENT approves.

In most cases they cut down to get better profit at the price of lesser quality (consumer is guilty of that as well)

Before you spend BILLIONS, they should test the CRAP out of those panels or at least prove it's reliability record etc

agreed. of course, many of these companies are nothing more than slush funds for the relatives of high-ranking party officials, so it's not simply an issue of maximizing profit on the product--but of insuring that cushy no-bid contracts stay within the family.

 

[rcpratt]

Hahhahahah.



Hahahhahahahahah.

 

[Apex]

Wow that sucks. Solar panels arn't cheap either. I'd be pissed. Is there even non chinese solar panels though? Or more specificly, solar cells? It's easy to buy a bunch of cells and make a panel, but if the cells come from China, same issue.

There are plenty made in Japan, from companies like Fuji, Kyocera, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, Sharp, Toshiba, and others. We use the 235w Kyocera KD235GX-LFB (+5%/-3% tolerance, 209.4w PTC panels with a 20yr degradation time to 80% power output certification) panels at our home.

When we installed, they were more expensive than the ones made in China, but much of the total price was the install, so we figured we wouldn't cheap out on the hardware.

 

[BUTCH1]

Damn right!!!! Before you sell me anything with an estimated 25 year life you had better have tested it for 25 years first....

Then you would have to wait 25 years to buy the solar panel you want! No, seriously, prices have plummeted in the last 12-16 months so companies probably get caught in a squeeze, "do I make a good panel but hardly sell any because mine are overpriced" or cut corners to keep product moving, looks like some chose the later..

 

[Platypus]

might as well change the title to Chinese $anything failing.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

You realize that accelerated aging is part of how industry tests things? I worked in solar and no doubt we did accelerated aging for UL certification.

Yeah, hence my sarcastic comment about how they ought to test them, and my non-sarcastic follow-up comment about them possibly first testing them, and then cheaping out on materials.

Of course, even if they didn't cheat on material quality on purpose, failures still happen on a bell curve, and a couple bad production batches can have a higher-than-normal enough failure rate to make the news, and even sour people on a brand for years. (*cough*Deskstar75GXP*cough*)

 

[Fritzo]

I made a TON of money on Chinese solar stocks a few years back. Got an ETrade account, bought YingLi and a couple of others for $3, they went up to $18-$21, sold, they dropped to $10, went back up to $20, sold...etc. Turned $1000 into $8000 in 3 months (also got a call from ETrade saying I had to have $25000 on account to trade like that or the FCC would fine me...got out of it after that).

Looks like the industry is in the crapper now.

 

[Red Squirrel]

There are plenty made in Japan, from companies like Fuji, Kyocera, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, Sharp, Toshiba, and others. We use the 235w Kyocera KD235GX-LFB (+5%/-3% tolerance, 209.4w PTC panels with a 20yr degradation time to 80% power output certification) panels at our home.

When we installed, they were more expensive than the ones made in China, but much of the total price was the install, so we figured we wouldn't cheap out on the hardware.

That's good to know. Japan generally makes pretty solid stuff. I've thought of going solar at one point. When I have the money in years from now I'll consider it more seriously. Wind is my first choice, but I have a feeling I would not be allowed due to the easment/HV line so failing that I could look at solar. We don't get much sun though but from what I understand lot of UV rays do make it through the clouds so they still generate, just not as much.