Chinese press shows photos of what Chinese nuclear attack on America would look like.

[rudeguy]

I think the difference is that most of the world is aware that other countries can strike them, Americans seem to live in a bubble where they feel that they are invulnerable to all attack, and don't really know how to handle threat equality.

It might be that you tend to fight wars on a different continent to the one one which you live.

ever hear of the Cold War?

We spent 40 years being reminded that we could be attacked at any time.

 

[Agent11]

Japan may be a target of such media as well. China has been quite aggressive lately towards them.

 

[John Connor]

Didn't a crappy old Chinese one surface undetected in the middle of some American naval maneuvers in the not so distant past?

Yeah, it was a mini sub. Hardly nuclear.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Partly its probably for your consumption as well. The American administration is not going to get a lot of popular support for engaging in a Chinese Japanese/Taiwanese/Everyoneelseaneseinthearea border dispute if they think that a significant portion of the US would get nuked.

Theres probably an element of "Oorah!" muscle flexing nationalism but I'd guess the main audience is you lot.

That might be true if it were a surprise but it's really not. I was reading the article for something new and it's not. Our military types would have no use for this. Remember Iran and its photo shopped missiles? I couple papers sensationalized it for profit but except for the clueless a good laugh was had all around. One was shear stupid and another accurate to some degree but as far as affecting military calculations it's irrelevant. They might as well have said water is wet. Remember we're the Kings of Snoop. We know.

 

[WelshBloke]

ever hear of the Cold War?

We spent 40 years being reminded that we could be attacked at any time.

But you've really faced the threat of invasion or war on your soil like the rest of the world. Also the rest of us were around in the Cold war as well its just we have seem slightly Warmer wars.

The UK is littered with emplacements against Nazi invasion and most towns will have at least gaps in their old housing where more modern houses have been put up in the spaces that the bombs made.

A lot of the world has day to day reminders of the actual cost of war, you guys don't have that.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

ever hear of the Cold War?

We spent 40 years being reminded that we could be attacked at any time.

I did "duck and cover". I'm hardly going to start fretting over this.

 

[WelshBloke]

That might be true if it were a surprise but it's really not. I was reading the article for something new and it's not. Our military types would have no use for this. Remember Iran and its photo shopped missiles? I couple papers sensationalized it for profit but except for the clueless a good laugh was had all around. One was shear stupid and another accurate to some degree but as far as affecting military calculations it's irrelevant. They might as well have said water is wet. Remember we're the Kings of Snoop. We know.

It seems a bit of a surprise to some of the people in this thread and I bet its a bit of a surprise to a lot of the people watching Fox news, and they are the ones that your politicians ultimately answer to.

I didnt mean that this was a message to your military, its a message to your public.

This is also nothing like Irans or North Koreas photoshop war.

 

[unokitty]

“I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”

― Albert Einstein

My experience is that war consists of old men sending young men off to die.

Neither the old men that run China nor the old men that run the USA would risk loosing their political positions via a nuclear exchange.

Uno
Sentry Dog Handler
US Army 69-71

 

[WelshBloke]

Yeah, it was a mini sub. Hardly nuclear.

Before this gets silly do you think it would be more difficult for China to park a sub with nuclear capabilities somewhere off West coast of America or to surface a non nuclear armed sub undetected in the middle of an active naval drill?

 

[WelshBloke]

“I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”

― Albert Einstein

My experience is that war consists of old men sending young men off to die.

Neither the old men that run China nor the old men that run the USA would risk loosing their political positions via a nuclear exchange.

Uno
Sentry Dog Handler
US Army 69-71

I agree, but its also China saying that you don't just get to tell it what to do in the South China sea.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

It seems a bit of a surprise to some of the people in this thread and I bet its a bit of a surprise to a lot of the people watching Fox news, and they are the ones that your politicians ultimately answer to.

I didnt mean that this was a message to your military, its a message to your public.

This is also nothing like Irans or North Koreas photoshop war.

There's those who will be shocked to know China has nuclear weapons. I don't know if you've spent time here but if you want to know what we're like it's not what you find here. The overwhelming majority of Americans simply do not care. We're a self absorbed insular people who don't really want to know unless there's likely to be some interruption in our routine. When that happens we are frightened and readily led by the nose. 9/11 would be the example. Do you want to know what China is to most of us? A place with a lot people live, who have some kind of throwback Communist guys running things and where Walmart gets its cheap plastic crap.

And no this isn't photoshopped and no one says it was. It is however best case for them. Likely damage is less. Obviously catastrophic but more localized.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Its bloody hard to track subs. Didn't a crappy old Chinese one surface undetected in the middle of some American naval maneuvers in the not so distant past?

Diesel electrics can be quiet and if sitting still, virtually undetected.

Nukes make more noise and have the range to the west coast. Diesels do not.

 

[John Connor]

God! And I thought I would have to describe that to him.

 

[John Connor]

Hey Welshbloke! I'm a little offended when you talk about Foxnews. So with that here's this. LOL I'm Irish. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCnGD6xv5ik

 

[Jaskalas]

ever hear of the Cold War?

We spent 40 years being reminded that we could be attacked at any time.

I think prior experience has taught us not to catch our !@#$s in our zippers over idle boasting. Particularly when the nature of it is defensive.

 

[WelshBloke]

Diesel electrics can be quiet and if sitting still, virtually undetected.

Nukes make more noise and have the range to the west coast. Diesels do not.

Is there any reason that you can't have a nuclear armed diesel electric powered sub?

 

[WelshBloke]

Hey Welshbloke! I'm a little offended when you talk about Foxnews. So with that here's this. LOL I'm Irish. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCnGD6xv5ik

I have no idea what that song has to do with the subject at hand, I'm not even sure what its got to do with the subject of Irish nationality given that the guys singing arent Irish and are singing with crappy fake Irish accents.

 

[khon]

did we run them in the New Times? Washington Post?

Having the plans isn't the big deal. Showing them off to the public is.

A deterrent only works if people know about it.

 

[sourn]

Fuck China.

They could at least also aim for Florida those fuckers.

 

[unokitty]

“Nine Dolphin Israeli Submarines Makes A Nuclear Wolf Pack”.

“The pride of the Israeli navy is rocking gently among Mediterranean swells,…

…new deputy minister of defense & proposes INS take on a key nuclear Triad role with a stealthy boat; German 800 / Dolphin concept subs armed with Israeli ballistic nuke tipped warheads first on the US. Harpoon and latter Israeli designed Popeye I & II subsurface launched cruise missiles (SLCM’s). This major restructure sealed the fate of the INS when this paradigm military shift revealing a 9 boat Wolf Pack. ...Israel has acquired three diesel submarines that it is arming with newly designed cruise missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads, according to former Pentagon and State Department officials, potentially giving Israel a triad of land-, sea- and air-based nuclear weapons for the first time.

Is there any reason that you can't have a nuclear armed diesel electric powered sub?

Why not? Israel already has them...

Uno

 

[Darwin333]

but not every country runs them in the paper...especially plans against a supposed ally.

Image what would happen if we posted our plans for Ecuador or Somalia. Or more accurately, imagine if we posted our plans against China or Pakistan. It would not end well.

But again the US leadership is too afraid to address these types of things. Better to worry about what kind of hat the Marines wear or who to pick in the Final Four.

They post war plans that every developed nation on the Earth has and knows.

We actively spy on allies.

Not sure that I am catching your point....

 

[Screech]

edit: re uno: presumably, the deterrent is to prevent the countries which have previously been at war with israel from trying to wipe israel off the map again.....and those countries are all likely in range of a submarine with ballistic (intercontinental ballistic not needed) missiles chilling in the mediterranean. OTOH if china wanted to shoot nukes across the US, a little more range is necessary, and a diesel sub might not easily have the range to get close enough without a really really really big missile. I'm not sure what the max range is on missiles that are small enough to be loaded onto a sub, though.

 

[Darwin333]

Is there any reason that you can't have a nuclear armed diesel electric powered sub?

The "quieter" part was about the difference between nuke and diesel propulsion. Diesels aren't very good at the entire "2nd strike" thing because they don't have the longevity or loiter time that a nuclear powered sub does.

 

[marvdmartian]

means that China for the first time has acquired the strategic deterrence and second strike capability against the United States

Who'd like to bet that every Chinese boomer (likely noisier than our 60's era subs) is being shadowed by a Los Angeles or Seawolf attack sub?? :hmm:

 

[unokitty]

The "quieter" part was about the difference between nuke and diesel propulsion. Diesels aren't very good at the entire "2nd strike" thing because they don't have the longevity or loiter time that a nuclear powered sub does.

Wikipedia alludes to a second strike capability for Israel's Diesel Subs.

The Israeli Navy operates modern German-built Dolphin-class submarines.[141] The first three Dolphins were delivered to Israel in 1999 and replaced the aging Gal class submarines, which had served in the Israeli navy since the late 1970s.[142] Various reports[124] indicate that these submarines are equipped with Popeye Turbo cruise missiles that can deliver nuclear and conventional[143] warheads with extremely high accuracy. The proven effectiveness of cruise missiles of its own production may have been behind Israel's recent acquisition of these submarines which are equipped with torpedo tubes suitable for launching long-range (1500–2400 km) nuclear-capable cruise missiles[144][145] that would offer Israel a second strike capability

Though, these submarines also have fuel cells that reportedly enable them to stay submerged for up to 18 days at a time.

Uno