Chinese frigate locked radar on Japanese navy vessel

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
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Looks like the slightest miscalculation could set off a conflict, even full-scale war considering how these two countries hate each other. China may find out how weak its navy is. Starting a war like this may be easy, and even politically feasible, but it could prove fatal to the Communist Party...

link

Chinese frigate locked radar on Japanese navy vessel
NATIONAL FEB. 05, 2013 - 08:13PM JST ( 60 )TOKYO —
A Chinese military frigate locked weapons-targeting radar on a Japanese navy vessel, Tokyo’s defence minister said Tuesday, in an apparent upping of the stakes in a bitter territorial row.

The move, described by the minister and a Japanese analyst as “dangerous”, marks the first time the two nation’s navies have locked horns in a dispute that has some commentators warning about a possible armed conflict.

“On January 30, something like fire-control radar was directed at a Japan Self-Defense Maritime escort ship in the East China Sea,” Itsunori Onodera told reporters in Tokyo.

“The defense ministry today confirmed radar for targeting was used.”

Onodera said a Japanese military helicopter was also locked with a similar radar on January 19. He did not specify whether the helicopter was airborne or on the deck of a ship at the time.

Officials said on both occasions the targeting had lasted “minutes”.

“Directing such radar is very abnormal,” he said. “We recognize it could create a very dangerous situation if a single misstep occurred. We will seek the Chinese side’s self-restraint from taking such dangerous action.”

The move is a ratcheting-up of an already tense situation in the East China Sea, where Asia’s two largest economies are at loggerheads over the sovereignty of an uninhabited island chain.

Hisao Iwashima, a Japanese defense analyst formerly of Japan’s National Institute for Defense Studies, said Beijing needed to answer for what its navy had done.

“It could have been a test but it the Japanese side wouldn’t have known if it was, or if it would lead to a launch,” he told AFP.

“The Chinese side is responsible for explaining why it took such potentially dangerous action.”

Also Tuesday, Tokyo summoned China’s envoy in protest at the presence a day earlier of Chinese government—but not military—ships in the waters around the Tokyo-controlled Senkakus, which Beijing claims as the Diaoyus.

No mention was made in the announcement of the actions of any Chinese military vessels. It was not believed that the military ships had been in what Japan considers its waters at the time of the episode.

“The foreign ministry summoned the Chinese ambassador over ships entering the waters near Senkaku islands,” said an official.

Two maritime surveillance boats had spent around 14 hours in the area, one of the longest periods they have been present, the coast guard said.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga told a news conference the actions were “absolutely unacceptable”, adding Ambassador Cheng Yonghua had been called to the foreign ministry to hear Japan’s “strong protest.”

Chinese ships have repeatedly ventured into the waters, in what observers say is Beijing’s bid to create a “new normal” in which Tokyo does not have effective control over the archipelago.

A Chinese government plane entered the chain’s airspace in December, setting off sorties by Japanese fighter jets.

In recent weeks, both countries have dispatched military planes, which on at least one occasion have shadowed each other, although there have been no clashes.

The radar targeting announced Tuesday has not previously been reported and is believed to be the first time the two navies have crossed swords, albeit at a distance and without a shot being fired.

But analysts say the ramping up of rhetoric—Japan’s new nationalist premier has maintained his robust pre-election stance on China—and the more frequent confrontations raise the risk of an accidental armed conflict.

On a Saturday visit to Okinawa, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe vowed to defend Japan against “provocations.”

His government has approved a rise in defense spending for the first time in over a decade, with some of the cash earmarked for beefing up defence of the contested island chain.

Japan’s already well-equipped coast guard said last week it would create a special unit over three years with 10 new large patrol boats, two helicopter carriers and a 600-strong force dedicated to overseeing Japanese territory in the East China Sea.

Abe’s posturing, which plays well with his powerbase, has, however, been accompanied by apparent olive branches offered to Beijing. In a television interview he suggested China and Japan needed to hold a summit and has sent two emissaries to Beijing in recent weeks.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
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I think its just a matter of time before we have a major conflict with china. There are too many factors that are pushing us to war.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
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I think its just a matter of time before we have a major conflict with china. There are too many factors that are pushing us to war.

The major factor was the financial crisis. They saw us as weak and that this was their opportunity. Obama kissing their ass only exacerbated this view with his slavish attitude towards them. Of course, he realized his mistake and changed tune but, by then, it was too late.
 

WackyDan

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,794
68
91
I think its just a matter of time before we have a major conflict with china. There are too many factors that are pushing us to war.

A lot of people think that we wouldn't choose sides due to all the manufacturing outsourced there, but the reality is the opposite really. As tensions rise, more companies will choose over time to open new factories or outsource to a new region. It won't completely null the dependence on China for some goods, but the pain will not be as bad as it would be if war broke out overnight in the region - which is highly improbable. UN sanctions on Chinese produced goods would change China's stance and hurt the party significantly as millions of Chinese find themselves out of work.

It is an interesting dynamic... and in many ways China's capitalist twist on communism is going to come back and bite them.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
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The major factor was the financial crisis.

Even though I agree, I also disagree.

We have a major financial issue coming, something that is going to drive the US and china towards a major conflict.

My opinion, the driving factor will be for wall street and the american banks to make sure the world stays on the dollar standard.

As china becomes an economic powerhouse, its just a matter of time before the chinese yuan replaces the us dollar on the world markets. Once the dollar has been replaced, wall street will no longer be relevant. Do we really think wall street, the banks, the federal reserve and the US government will let china replace the US as the worlds leading economy?

Its this little conflict between china and japan that stands to open the door to a much larger conflict.
 
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ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
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Another of these threads with overdramatising :rolleyes:

The only people wishing a war is on this forum.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
Another of these threads with overdramatising :rolleyes:

The only people wishing a war is on this forum.

There is no one wishing for war.

The fact stands that china is slowly replacing the US as a world economic leader.

To be a world leader a nation needs two things - innovation and manufacturing.

We have the innovation, china has the manufacturing.

Would you like to know who many chinese college students are going to school here in the US? Over the past few years the numbers of chinese students has drastically increased.

Its just a matter of time before china starts innovating their own products. When that happens, will the US be relevant? Probably not.

When a nation dedicates more money to its military then to educating its children, what path will that take us down?
 
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chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
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More like come back to bite us. These other lessor countries get sanctioned because they're puny little pissant countries and have no other choice but to bend, or, take the sanction. Even if a China was - for real - sanctioned, it's by no means a little pissant country. It's got massive size, resources, and when you're talking about millions of people out of work and living in a high state of dissatisfaction, a will that is easily molded to rise to defeat that dissatisfaction. Our own greed has created a monster (more like, monsters, since we've jump started India as well), now we get to deal with the consequences of that greed...

Chuck
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
There is no one wishing for war.

The fact stands that china is slowly replacing the US as a world economic leader.

To be a world leader a nation needs two things - innovation and manufacturing.

We have the innovation, china has the manufacturing.

Would you like to know who many chinese college students are going to school here in the US? Over the past few years the numbers of chinese students has drastically increased.

Its just a matter of time before china starts innovating their own products. When that happens, will the US be relevant? Probably not.

When a nation dedicates more money to its military then to educating its children, what path will that take us down?

I can see your worry in that the US will use its powermongering to start a new war. Its just not gonna happen. The US population would quickly riot when the supply of cheap goods stopped. The US depends on China, China doesnt depend on the US.

China already beat the US in innovation. Just look at LTE/4G. A certain company had to beg politicians to hinder competition.

While certainly not the best example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_inventions

The US aint an innovation leader anymore, havent been so for the last 10 years+. Its a country locked in the past.

The chinese students is doing what americans fail to do. They dont just travel to the US, they travel everywhere. They know its a globalized world and that you need to learn and study culture, methods and ideas with everyone to succeed.
 
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finglobes

Senior member
Dec 13, 2010
739
0
0
"The fact stands that china is slowly replacing the US as a world economic leader."


That could be reversed in a New York minute. China is a vampire, parasite economy feeding off the miasma of America's suicide. It just siphons off what America ejects away. China's own population isn't even fully connected to the economy. Westerners going there to teach English have to bring shampoo and deodorant because its so hard to get in many places in China. China cooks its own books and builds these massive and ridiculous "ghost cities" to pump up its GDP. if the US got its head out of its azz it would pull the rug right out from this parasite. Unfortunately US Dems WANT American decline and GOP weenies keep meowing about "free trade" while US sends all its manufacturing and trade secrets there. Trump is right - US is lead by idiots and the Chinese know it

More eerie 'ghost cities' popping up
http://www.wnd.com/2012/07/bizarre-chinas-eerie-ghost-cities-arise/
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,379
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More saberrattling. There will never be a real war, China will simply keep stealing/buying the US.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
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we are so economically intertwined that I dont think a conventional war is possible. The business juggernauts will never let that happen. But the cyber war is on, we just need to open our eyes.

http://www.infoworld.com/d/security/unseen-all-out-cyber-war-the-us-has-begun-211438

Economic wars (currently there is talk of currency wars breaking out between nations, especially with Japan leading the charge with their policy on the Yen), cyber wars (e.g. China's well known actions against the US), etc are all proxy precursors to future conflicts which will eventually occur when one side feels confident, ready and able to strike the other side(s) in a open and physical manner.

Right now neither side is has aligned all three components (confidence, willingness and ability) to strike the either side physically in a open manner. However given human nature and our understanding of history conflict will occur at some point and time in the future as waning powers (economic and military powers) fade out and newer waxing powers move past each other and trade positions.

In other words think about it as a game of chess being played where both side have yet to engage and take out pieces however both sides are currently and constantly maneuvering to be in a advantageous position for a future conflict if it were to arise.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Economic wars (currently there is talk of currency wars breaking out between nations, especially with Japan leading the charge with their policy on the Yen), cyber wars (e.g. China's well known actions against the US), etc are all proxy precursors to future conflicts which will eventually occur when one side feels confident, ready and able to strike the other side(s) in a open and physical manner.

Right now neither side is has aligned all three components (confidence, willingness and ability) to strike the either side physically in a open manner. However given human nature and our understanding of history conflict will occur at some point and time in the future as waning powers (economic and military powers) fade out and newer waxing powers move past each other and trade positions.

In other words think about it as a game of chess being played where both side have yet to engage and take out pieces however both sides are currently and constantly maneuvering to be in a advantageous position for a future conflict if it were to arise.

I disagree. China is a very long term planner/thinker and they, unlike us, have the ability to implement that to a large part. What does China have to gain by beating the US in a military conflict that would inflict huge costs on themselves? Instead they could simply wage an economic war in which the risk at this point is relatively low (compared to war with the US even two decades into the future) and they actually have something of tremendous and continuing wealth to gain. At the same time yhey could put themselves in a position in which we are so reliant upon them (and to an extent vice versa) that we overlook insanely huge and insanely blatant espianage, stealing the best thing we produce (or used to) intellectual property. They could, by stealing our work, come very close to catching up with us on a technological level while training their own engineers and scientists so that at some point (remember the long term planning/goals) they would have the ability to compete with us on a technological/innovation level.

Again, my main question, what does China have to gain with direct war with the US?
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Economic wars (currently there is talk of currency wars breaking out between nations, especially with Japan leading the charge with their policy on the Yen), cyber wars (e.g. China's well known actions against the US), etc are all proxy precursors to future conflicts which will eventually occur when one side feels confident, ready and able to strike the other side(s) in a open and physical manner.

Right now neither side is has aligned all three components (confidence, willingness and ability) to strike the either side physically in a open manner. However given human nature and our understanding of history conflict will occur at some point and time in the future as waning powers (economic and military powers) fade out and newer waxing powers move past each other and trade positions.

In other words think about it as a game of chess being played where both side have yet to engage and take out pieces however both sides are currently and constantly maneuvering to be in a advantageous position for a future conflict if it were to arise.

Currency war my ass. So it's ok when the Federal Reserve does it (quantitative easing in order to lower the value of the dollar and prop up the economy) but not ok when the Bank of Japan does it?
 

Karl Agathon

Golden Member
Sep 30, 2010
1,081
0
0
The next 'Hitler like' figure will come from Red China. Japan has little choice but to reverse its constitutionn and develop its own nuclear deterent. its not a matter of if it happens folks, just when.
 
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Vic Vega

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2010
4,535
3
0
The arm chair generals around here are hilarious. Tossing around talk of war and nothing of what it entails as casually as you order a Big Mac at McDonalds. Go to bed, children.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
I disagree. China is a very long term planner/thinker and they, unlike us, have the ability to implement that to a large part. What does China have to gain by beating the US in a military conflict that would inflict huge costs on themselves? Instead they could simply wage an economic war in which the risk at this point is relatively low (compared to war with the US even two decades into the future) and they actually have something of tremendous and continuing wealth to gain. At the same time yhey could put themselves in a position in which we are so reliant upon them (and to an extent vice versa) that we overlook insanely huge and insanely blatant espianage, stealing the best thing we produce (or used to) intellectual property. They could, by stealing our work, come very close to catching up with us on a technological level while training their own engineers and scientists so that at some point (remember the long term planning/goals) they would have the ability to compete with us on a technological/innovation level.

Again, my main question, what does China have to gain with direct war with the US?

Right now nothing however as you stated China likes to think ahead. The espionage they conduct and the economic actions it takes are all forms of proxy warfare in order to continually weaken an adversary/competitor to the point that this competitors current advantages are rendered moot in a future confrontation.

In the future when their economic and military edge is much larger and their ability to be able to wage and sustain a war against the US is bolstered by their economic and technological dominance the question will not asked of China but of the US and what we will gain from confronting a emergent super power like China throwing its weight around in regions of the world like Asia where we once dominated and held major influence.
 
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JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
The major factor was the financial crisis. They saw us as weak and that this was their opportunity. Obama kissing their ass only exacerbated this view with his slavish attitude towards them. Of course, he realized his mistake and changed tune but, by then, it was too late.
rofl..get over it....the republicans lost.....everything is NOT Obamas fault.....sheese idiots abound
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
The arm chair generals around here are hilarious. Tossing around talk of war and nothing of what it entails as casually as you order a Big Mac at McDonalds. Go to bed, children.

I'm sure you'd fit int with the crowd who thought WW1 was the war to end all wars and which did not foresee the global economic collapse of the roaring 20's.

If there is one thing that is true throughout human history and is a proven axiom the human condition itself it is that man has an endless supply of short sighted stupidity.

In addition major global economic destabilization of nations which either undermines or forces them to undermine their currencies are the main root causes of most major conflicts between nations.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
Currency war my ass. So it's ok when the Federal Reserve does it (quantitative easing in order to lower the value of the dollar and prop up the economy) but not ok when the Bank of Japan does it?

It's called survival of the fittest in this global economy in which central banks of fiat currencies must find the best position for their currencies in the light of the global economic slow down we have been seeing for the past several years. Everyone is trying to come out onto top and be the next major exporter nation (especially in Asia). This isn't even taking into account China's own openly announced future goal to have its currency attempt to replace ours as the major reserve currency of choice for nations around the world.

Oddly enough it was about 3-4 years ago that both China and Japan both signed and agreed upon economic and currency related deals to try to help each other establish their currencies as the go to currencies in Asia.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
China does this routinely; they've done it to many US warplanes and a few warships as well. I don't think it means they want war so much as they want to discourage new ventures in the area. They're probably looking at taking more land in a couple decades, which will be considerably easier if there aren't new oil wells, gas wells, development, etc. Making the area seem dangerous is a good way to discourage development and therefore give nations like Japan less incentive to go to war to protect their outlying lands if China ever does make a move.

I don't think it will be in my lifetime, but I think World War 3 will be between Red China and Islam. They are the ascendant powers today as Europe, Japan and America decline and South America stalls and falls into socialism.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
It's called survival of the fittest in this global economy in which central banks of fiat currencies must find the best position for their currencies in the light of the global economic slow down we have been seeing for the past several years. Everyone is trying to come out onto top and be the next major exporter nation (especially in Asia). This isn't even taking into account China's own openly announced future goal to have its currency attempt to replace ours as the major reserve currency of choice for nations around the world.

Oddly enough it was about 3-4 years ago that both China and Japan both signed and agreed upon economic and currency related deals to try to help each other establish their currencies as the go to currencies in Asia.

Neither China or Japan want their currency to be the "go to" currency. Japan had the opportunity and was invited to do so but declined, fearing an appreciating yen would hurt its export sector. China learned from that as well. These countries want to sell as much stuff to the rest of the world without the drawbacks of currency fluctuations and responsibility.