China's oil use is changing world energy markets

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rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
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Originally posted by: Dari

I'm talking about international law. Iraq broke it and she was firmly dealt with. Iran, too, is breaking international law. But China can't handle her. Plus, Western nations won't accept Chinese soldiers so close to home. And she doesn't even have the capacity. Watching the Iranians fight the Chinese without any international support would be an absolute slaughterhouse...for the chinese.
Yeah, that's right, US is the only country with the power to declare which country broke the international law and the only country to enforce it pretty much single handedly.

So why are we afraid of China meddling with international affair, oil trade or environment? You don't need to look further then this country to find the most aggressive country in the entire world who messes with other country's internal affair, influence oil trade for its benefit, consume most natural resources and produce most pollution.

 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
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Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: Dari

I'm talking about international law. Iraq broke it and she was firmly dealt with. Iran, too, is breaking international law. But China can't handle her. Plus, Western nations won't accept Chinese soldiers so close to home. And she doesn't even have the capacity. Watching the Iranians fight the Chinese without any international support would be an absolute slaughterhouse...for the chinese.
Yeah, that's right, US is the only country with the power to declare which country broke the international law and the only country to enforce it pretty much single handedly.

So why are we afraid of China meddling with international affair, oil trade or environment? You don't need to look further then this country to find the most aggressive country in the entire world who messes with other country's internal affair, influence oil trade for its benefit, consume most natural resources and produce most pollution.

Cry me a river.

BTW, China is not meeddling in anyone's affair. So far, they've behaved themselves.

And the US doesn't declare which country breaks international law, international institutions, not unlike the United Nations (Security Council) and the World Trade Organization, do.
 

Witling

Golden Member
Jul 30, 2003
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"China behaving themselves, heh, you're funny...."

Kage, you're uniformative. China pretty much stayed out of the whole Iraq/US mess. Their threattening Taiwan is a regular part of the elections over there.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
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Whitling, you are naive and certainly no stranger to bland assumptions.

Despite what you conjured up, my comment was not in regards to either the Iraqi situation or the Taiwanese situation, but rather towards China's history as a whole.
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
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Originally posted by: Dari


Cry me a river.

BTW, China is not meeddling in anyone's affair. So far, they've behaved themselves.

And the US doesn't declare which country breaks international law, international institutions, not unlike the United Nations (Security Council) and the World Trade Organization, do.
Well, good, just wanna prove a point that China doesn't go out and mess with international politics even if oil is increasingly important to them.

And I don't recall UN or the Security Council declared Iraq broke resolution 1441 nor backed the invasion of Iraq and unless I am mistaken, it was US that by passed UN and invaded Iraq. So if you are saying US doesn't declare which country breaks international law/international institution, US must be violating something by invading Iraq on its own right?

Anyway, that's a debate for another topic and another thread.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
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Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: Dari


Cry me a river.

BTW, China is not meeddling in anyone's affair. So far, they've behaved themselves.

And the US doesn't declare which country breaks international law, international institutions, not unlike the United Nations (Security Council) and the World Trade Organization, do.
Well, good, just wanna prove a point that China doesn't go out and mess with international politics even if oil is increasingly important to them.

And I don't recall UN or the Security Council declared Iraq broke resolution 1441 nor backed the invasion of Iraq and unless I am mistaken, it was US that by passed UN and invaded Iraq. So if you are saying US doesn't declare which country breaks international law/international institution, US must be violating something by invading Iraq on its own right?

Anyway, that's a debate for another topic and another thread.
You are mistaken.
 

Witling

Golden Member
Jul 30, 2003
1,448
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Kage, If you want history as a whole, the U.S. is still probably the big leader in this century for causing trouble. Nicauragua, Iran, Chile, Haiti (before this final action) Grenada (boy, there was a threat), invading Panama, many interferences with Central America, invading Mexico. Columbia quite recently when we supported the overthrow of the legitimate government -- unfortunately, the guy wasn't overthrown. That's skipping killing off most of the indigenous people.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
23,119
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And you assuming I disagree with that somehow makes me 'uniformitive' right?

Sorry Whitling, I responded to a post under a thread I took interest in...must have missed all the mentions of the US, Haiti, Chile, Iran, Grenada, etc in the thread's title. My bad.





 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,198
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Originally posted by: Whitling
Kage, If you want history as a whole, the U.S. is still probably the big leader in this century for causing trouble. Nicauragua, Iran, Chile, Haiti (before this final action) Grenada (boy, there was a threat), invading Panama, many interferences with Central America, invading Mexico. Columbia quite recently when we supported the overthrow of the legitimate government -- unfortunately, the guy wasn't overthrown. That's skipping killing off most of the indigenous people.
Unfair! It has only been 3 years ;)
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
69,415
4,795
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Originally posted by: rjain
Whitling: But, as Dari just said, the Yuan is tied to the Dollar. If it's in our favor to price oil in Dollars, it's in China's favor, too.
Though the Yuan is tied to the $US, it is, according to the US, undervalued. The Bush admin has been doing a lot of behind the scenes work in trying to get the Chinese to put the Yuan on the open market. The reason for the pressure and complaint about the Yuan is that China is keeping the Yuan undervalued in order to unfairly compete in the global market.

So, though driving the value of the Yuan down by driving the value of the $US down may make Oil more expensive, the benefit for Export of Chinese goods would far outweigh the increased cost of Oil. IOWs, China has nothing to lose in devaluing the $US or the Yuan and a lot to gain or maintain.
 

rjain

Golden Member
May 1, 2003
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And China keeping the Dollar undervalued allows us to unfairly compete in the global market. :)

That still has no bearing on what I said. It's not a question of the tie between the dollar and the yuan, but between the yuan and oil, via the dollar, vs. letting it dance around with dollar/euro rates.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
69,415
4,795
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Originally posted by: rjain
And China keeping the Dollar undervalued allows us to unfairly compete in the global market. :)

That still has no bearing on what I said. It's not a question of the tie between the dollar and the yuan, but between the yuan and oil, via the dollar, vs. letting it dance around with dollar/euro rates.
True, but Yuan/Oil is not as important as Yuan/Goods. At least at this point in time.
 

rjain

Golden Member
May 1, 2003
1,475
0
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Erm.... if China is becoming one of the world's biggest importers of oil, don't you think that the cost of their finished goods is going to need to fluctuate with the cost of the oil they're using?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
69,415
4,795
126
Originally posted by: rjain
Erm.... if China is becoming one of the world's biggest importers of oil, don't you think that the cost of their finished goods is going to need to fluctuate with the cost of the oil they're using?
Most likely yes, but with the decreasing value of the Yuan, their Goods become cheaper at the same time. It also depends a lot on where the Oil is being consumed, it seems like Privately owned vehicles is what is driving demand.
 

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