China's New Stealth Fighter Jet Can Take Down American Counterpart, Developer Says

[Spungo]

Astrallite is right about the purpose of these newer jets. The F-35 sucks as an air superiority fighter, but it has other uses. You would never send an F-35 against top of the line Russian or American defensive systems. The thing would get shot down immediately. Likewise, you wouldn't send a B2 bomber to take out SU-27 fighters, and you wouldn't bring a knife to a gun fight. There's a time and place for everything. We shouldn't say the M1 tank is useless because it can be destroyed by an A-10 bomber. It's not supposed to fight bombers. It does other things.

Things like the F-35 can be great for bullying the world as long as it can dodge MANPADS.

 

[pauldun170]

Isn't this the plane that needs afterburner to stay aloft?

Analysis seems to indicate that the plane bleeds speed quicker than a...
uh. never mind. Yup its pretty much an aircraft version of the "Mini cooper" and BMW clones that come out of Chinese automakers.

They will build a small number of these and then they will just be another footnote.
They don't even need to be good. They just need to be able to launch the AAM and AGM in China's inventory and look good enough on paper for export customers (third world dictatorships and general scumbaggery).

For all the licenses they have acquired over the years and all the espionage you would think they would be able to do something right in-house.
This looks like a it was built to please some old general who complained that he wants something that looks like what the Americans have.

 

[Svnla]

Ya'll forget the very important thing in dog fights in the air, the QUALITY/SKILL/TRAINING of the pilots.

I would rather put my betting money on US pilots anytime.

 

[Knowing]

"My dad can beat up your dad."

 

[cabri]

Ya'll forget the very important thing in dog fights in the air, the QUALITY/SKILL/TRAINING of the pilots.

I would rather put my betting money on US pilots anytime.

As has been shown, a US trained P3 pilot can take down a Chinese flow MIG

 

[rommelrommel]

Ya'll forget the very important thing in dog fights in the air, the QUALITY/SKILL/TRAINING of the pilots.

I would rather put my betting money on US pilots anytime.

Or any NATO pilot, or French pilot, or Russian, or Israeli, or S. Korean, or Japanese, or...

 

[fskimospy]

The problem with Russia is not if we can defeat them in battle. If we want to, we can destroy them. The problem with Russia is if we are willing to make the necessary sacrifices to prevent them from doing shitty things to their neighbors.

 

[smackababy]

The problem with Russia is not if we can defeat them in battle. If we want to, we can destroy them. The problem with Russia is if we are willing to make the necessary sacrifices to prevent them from doing shitty things to their neighbors.

The problem with any real big war in this age is the devastation it will cause on the winning side's economy. In a post Hitler world, we have to rebuilt countries we wreck. A war with Russia would really hurt us; even more so with a war with China.


Also, I don't believe the developer of this understands what the F-35 is. It isn't a stealth fighter, per say. It is more of a bomber. If he is trying to claim China's fighter can take down an F-22, well, they must have some great crack in China.

 

[tweaker2]

The devil is in the details as far as the Chinese is concerned.

They can make their aircraft look like ours, even fly like ours at some lower limited performance parameters.

However, as far as having their aircraft match performance levels at the very high end of the spectrum where winning or losing is determined, I really don't think the Chinese level of tech where it really matters is anywhere near ours.

Are their stealth coatings as developed as ours? Are their structural materials tech, right down to the overall quality of the screws that hold the aircraft together or the purity of the copper, platinum, titanium and gold in the avionics as "good" as ours? I don't think so.

Added to that, considering how complex the evolution of the highest levels of performance that's required to gain advantage over the "other guy's" is, and how the overall design concepts mate with the myriad minutiae required to fulfill the concept's goals, I find it rather remote that the Chinese can reverse engineer the kind of specific developmental "philosophy" unique to the culture from whence it came to arrive at the same intended goal (performance parameters).

It simply takes a whole lot more than "copying" a design to match it or outperform it in any way.

It seems to me it's much more important for the Chinese that they "appear" to be what they want the world to see them as, ergo examples like that Chinese developer's wont to compare their top of the line "fighter" with our multi-role platform that was never meant to project air superiority. This sleight of hand coming from a second hand car salesman's mentality or a politician to push a product's marketability rather than an aeronautics design engineer's point of view whose main concerns are the superior technical performance parameters that they are constantly driven to accomplish.

Forgive me for mentioning the obvious, but playing catchup is where we always would want the Chinese or any of our potential adversaries to be.

 

[lozina]

Sometimes I wonder if the whole F-35 thing isn't some kind of ploy to get China to rip it off and replicate them to make them easy to shoot down in the future.

J/K a bit, kinda.

:sneaky:

Heh, well check this out.

In 1945 we were producing a cutting edge plane which dominated the skies called the P51 Mustang. It had a production cost of $50,000. In today's dollars that's just about $660,000.

So basically you could buy 172 P51's of today's dollars for every 1 F35

(Interesting side note: today's MBT [main battle tank] the M1 Abrams is only about 3x the cost of our first post-war MBT, the M48 Patton [1952] - in other words we could only build 3 M48 Pattons in today's dollars for every modern M1 Abrams built)

Now obviously, it's not quite fair to compare the two like this given how much has changed in air warfare requiring so many different components that a plane from WW2 never dreamed of.

But still...

 

[lozina]

I think these jet fighters are already obsolete now though anyway... they are like the Battleships of WW2.

The future is drones which have low production costs and can operate under conditions which would turn a human into mush.

And America is basically the leader in drones.

 

[silicon]

I think these jet fighters are already obsolete now though anyway... they are like the Battleships of WW2.

The future is drones which have low production costs and can operate under conditions which would turn a human into mush.

And America is basically the leader in drones.

I think there will still be a need for a traditional fighter flown by a real pilot.

 

[ryccoh]

The question isn't even whether it is comparable to our jets. They want to sell to nations that we do not sell to, isn't that what Russia does, I don't see any nations choosing Chinese over Russian jets but I could be wrong the Russians are still working on the Pak Fa or whatever it's called and don't offer stealth yet but this J-31 is only experimental as well.

 

[ryccoh]

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20141213000024&cid=1101

 

[z1ggy]

Wooo, so China copied all of the American technology that they stole? Wow, so impress!!!

 

[Sulaco]

Unlike the US or Russia, China is still unable to design proper radar absorbing coating for its stealth fighter

I guess they weren't able steal that little tidbit of info yet.

 

[shady28]

This is what Wikipedia had to say about the current state of the J-31 :

"The J-31 was publicly unveiled on November 12, 2014.[40][41] During the airshow, the J-31/FC-31 revealed aerodynamic inefficiencies during flight maneuvers. The aircraft bled a lot of energy and the pilot had a hard time keeping the nose up during turns and other maneuvers. The afterburners also had to be engaged often to maintain a proper energy utilization curve. Flights were done when the jet was "clean," so results would be worse when fitted with a combat loadout. However, a large-scale model of the FC-31 on display did show some detail changes of configuration compared to the flying prototype.[42]"


I think the PAK-FA is a lot more interesting and credible than J-31.

 

[blankslate]

Sounds like they mean "Take down American counterpart if pilot is struck blind somehow while flying... it... is... long shot but we're being hopeful."


....

 

[Zorba]

Heh, well check this out.

In 1945 we were producing a cutting edge plane which dominated the skies called the P51 Mustang. It had a production cost of $50,000. In today's dollars that's just about $660,000.

So basically you could buy 172 P51's of today's dollars for every 1 F35

(Interesting side note: today's MBT [main battle tank] the M1 Abrams is only about 3x the cost of our first post-war MBT, the M48 Patton [1952] - in other words we could only build 3 M48 Pattons in today's dollars for every modern M1 Abrams built)

Now obviously, it's not quite fair to compare the two like this given how much has changed in air warfare requiring so many different components that a plane from WW2 never dreamed of.

But still...

Something else to think about, the cost of aluminum has dropped (relative to steel) a lot since WWII. So that should help the relative cost of aircraft verses WWII.

 

[KMFJD]

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-deba...t-f-35-fighter-cant-turn-cant-climb-cant-run/

Pretty damning article on the F 35, can't outrun, can't outturn, can't out climb, it's under powered and overweight.

 

[werepossum]

As has been shown, a US trained P3 pilot can take down a Chinese flow MIG

lol +1

Is the J-31 similar to any of their other J series planes that have never left the ground? I'm sure sitting on the runway it can take down a F-35.

Good thing our fighter jets (not the F-35, btw) are unstoppable.

Next up on the weekly news, North Korea claims their stealth fighter can take down the Chinese one...

To improve our combat effectiveness, we're looking at equipping the J-31 with really large tires and really long landing gear. Maybe some hydraulics so the pilot can face up into the sky where the other planes are.

 

[werepossum]

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-deba...t-f-35-fighter-cant-turn-cant-climb-cant-run/

Pretty damning article on the F 35, can't outrun, can't outturn, can't out climb, it's under powered and overweight.

Well, yeah, but other than that . . .

 

[Genx87]

The F-35 is a symbol of what is wrong with our military contract bidding process and procurement of weapon systems. Lockheed Martin should had been disqualified in the bidding process due to running over budget. Instead they got a pass and had those cost overruns paid for by the pentagon. Then they go on to win the contract. And the issues they ran into during the bidding process have plagued the program ever since. Mainly cost overruns, poor project management, little cost sharing until recently.

 

[tweaker2]

The F-35 is a symbol of what is wrong with our military contract bidding process and procurement of weapon systems. Lockheed Martin should had been disqualified in the bidding process due to running over budget. Instead they got a pass and had those cost overruns paid for by the pentagon. Then they go on to win the contract. And the issues they ran into during the bidding process have plagued the program ever since. Mainly cost overruns, poor project management, little cost sharing until recently.

And to think that years ago, my only concern when operating DOD new tech equipment was that it was made by the lowest bidder.

In fact the last time that crossed my mind was when I was wiring up a new design road cratering charge back in the day. lol

Well come to think of it, I used to hope the fuse in a grenade I was about to pitch out wasn't made by a guy that was pissed off at the world at the time.

 

[Ronstang]

The Chinese are worse at designing things and using their imaginations than they are at copying other people's stuff......and they can't make a copy worth having. `