China's healthcare reform

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
BEIJING, Oct. 15 (Xinhua) ? China?s new healthcare reform plan, which aims to provide universal medical service to 1.3 billion people, has triggered nationwide debate since it was publicized on Tuesday morning.

News articles on healthcare reform showed up in major newspapers and online forums were swarmed with netizens eager to express their opinion.

More than 900 comments were left on the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC) website in less than two days.

Suggestions, complaints and criticisms kept pouring into the site, which the Chinese authorities set up to solicit opinions on the long-awaited reform plan.

?I suggest leaders pay more attention to medical services in rural areas,? Cao Pengfei wrote. ?It would cost more than a 1,000 yuan (146 U.S. dollars) for a minor illness in my county,? added the Shandong Province resident.

?I have no stable job and travel from place to place for work. I was wondering how people like me could be covered by medical insurance?? Ma Shengcheng asked.

Many proposed long lists of suggestions. Xia Shaochun wrote thousands of words, analyzing the problems of the current insurance system and government funding.

Opinions of health experts were seen in newspapers and magazines. Besides commenting on the plan itself, many agreed the government had taken an unprecedented open attitude towards the reform.

Healthcare reform expert Gu Xin told the China Youth Daily that scholars in the past were often asked to prove the validity and thinking behind a government decision after it was made.

?But as for the healthcare reform plan, scholars really participated in it,? he said. ?The government asked for our opinions and paid great attention before the plan was drafted.?

Growing public criticism of soaring medical fees, a lack of access to affordable medical services, poor doctor-patient relationships and low medical insurance coverage compelled the government to launch the new round of reforms.

China first started reforming healthcare in 1992 to abolish a system under which the government covered more than 90 percent of expenses.

The country then gradually switched to a market-oriented medical system. However, soaring medical costs plunged many rural and urban Chinese into poverty.

In the new plan, the government promised to set up a ?safe, effective, convenient and affordable? healthcare system that would cover all urban and rural residents by 2020.

The draft lists five priorities: speeding up the establishment of a universal healthcare system, setting up a basic drug system, improving the grassroots health service network, providing equal public health service to rural and urban residents and pushing forward reform trials in state-run hospitals.


Healthcare reform debates have been going on in China for years. In 2006, the State Council, the country?s Cabinet, set up a joint-working team consisting of experts from 16 departments to create a reform plan.

An official with the team told Xinhua the group had conducted numerous seminars and undertook field investigations in more than 20 provinces, municipalities and autonomous regions over the past two years.

It also entrusted nine domestic and overseas organizations, including the World Health Organization, to conduct independent research. The submitted opinions were included in the draft.

In early 2007, the National Development and Reform Commission started a website, inviting public opinion on medical reform. The commission received 1,500 suggestions and 600 letters in less than six months.

In April, Premier Wen Jiabao held two symposiums in Zhongnanhai, the government headquarters in downtown Beijing, to discuss the issue with representatives from the medical field, companies, migrants and farm workers, among others.

?Healthcare reform is a tough problem worldwide,? Peking University professor Li Ling said. ?To mobilize the whole nation to join the debate is an unprecedented move of the Chinese government, which ensures that the decision could be made in a prudent, scientific and democratic way.?

http://news.xinhuanet.com/engl...5/content_10199688.htm

I'm going to predict that China will have a better healthcare system in the next few decades than we do because Americans are apparently too stupid to see the benefits of UHC while China seems to be able to openly discuss healthcare reform rather than screaming "SOCIALISM!" at the top of their lungs everytime someone makes a suggestion. Also, no surprise their healthcare system failed miserably under a more market oriented healthcare system. At least it looks like they learned their lesson.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
Originally posted by: Phokus
http://news.xinhuanet.com/engl...5/content_10199688.htm

I'm going to predict that China will have a better healthcare system in the next few decades than we do because Americans are apparently too stupid to see the benefits of UHC while China seems to be able to openly discuss healthcare reform rather than screaming "SOCIALISM!" at the top of their lungs everytime someone makes a suggestion. Also, no surprise their healthcare system failed miserably under a more market oriented healthcare system. At least it looks like they learned their lesson.

1) China is theoretically still communist.
2) China doesn't protect free speech.
 

Newbian

Lifer
Aug 24, 2008
24,779
882
126
To mobilize the whole nation to join the debate is an unprecedented move of the Chinese government, which ensures that the decision could be made in a prudent, scientific and democratic way.

I do find that last statement a bit humorous when it's coming from a place like China.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
126
Originally posted by: Phokus
BEIJING, Oct. 15 (Xinhua) ? China?s new healthcare reform plan, which aims to provide universal medical service to 1.3 billion people, has triggered nationwide debate since it was publicized on Tuesday morning.

News articles on healthcare reform showed up in major newspapers and online forums were swarmed with netizens eager to express their opinion.

More than 900 comments were left on the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC) website in less than two days.

Suggestions, complaints and criticisms kept pouring into the site, which the Chinese authorities set up to solicit opinions on the long-awaited reform plan.

?I suggest leaders pay more attention to medical services in rural areas,? Cao Pengfei wrote. ?It would cost more than a 1,000 yuan (146 U.S. dollars) for a minor illness in my county,? added the Shandong Province resident.

?I have no stable job and travel from place to place for work. I was wondering how people like me could be covered by medical insurance?? Ma Shengcheng asked.

Many proposed long lists of suggestions. Xia Shaochun wrote thousands of words, analyzing the problems of the current insurance system and government funding.

Opinions of health experts were seen in newspapers and magazines. Besides commenting on the plan itself, many agreed the government had taken an unprecedented open attitude towards the reform.

Healthcare reform expert Gu Xin told the China Youth Daily that scholars in the past were often asked to prove the validity and thinking behind a government decision after it was made.

?But as for the healthcare reform plan, scholars really participated in it,? he said. ?The government asked for our opinions and paid great attention before the plan was drafted.?

Growing public criticism of soaring medical fees, a lack of access to affordable medical services, poor doctor-patient relationships and low medical insurance coverage compelled the government to launch the new round of reforms.

China first started reforming healthcare in 1992 to abolish a system under which the government covered more than 90 percent of expenses.

The country then gradually switched to a market-oriented medical system. However, soaring medical costs plunged many rural and urban Chinese into poverty.

In the new plan, the government promised to set up a ?safe, effective, convenient and affordable? healthcare system that would cover all urban and rural residents by 2020.

The draft lists five priorities: speeding up the establishment of a universal healthcare system, setting up a basic drug system, improving the grassroots health service network, providing equal public health service to rural and urban residents and pushing forward reform trials in state-run hospitals.


Healthcare reform debates have been going on in China for years. In 2006, the State Council, the country?s Cabinet, set up a joint-working team consisting of experts from 16 departments to create a reform plan.

An official with the team told Xinhua the group had conducted numerous seminars and undertook field investigations in more than 20 provinces, municipalities and autonomous regions over the past two years.

It also entrusted nine domestic and overseas organizations, including the World Health Organization, to conduct independent research. The submitted opinions were included in the draft.

In early 2007, the National Development and Reform Commission started a website, inviting public opinion on medical reform. The commission received 1,500 suggestions and 600 letters in less than six months.

In April, Premier Wen Jiabao held two symposiums in Zhongnanhai, the government headquarters in downtown Beijing, to discuss the issue with representatives from the medical field, companies, migrants and farm workers, among others.

?Healthcare reform is a tough problem worldwide,? Peking University professor Li Ling said. ?To mobilize the whole nation to join the debate is an unprecedented move of the Chinese government, which ensures that the decision could be made in a prudent, scientific and democratic way.?

http://news.xinhuanet.com/engl...5/content_10199688.htm

I'm going to predict that China will have a better healthcare system in the next few decades than we do because Americans are apparently too stupid to see the benefits of UHC while China seems to be able to openly discuss healthcare reform rather than screaming "SOCIALISM!" at the top of their lungs everytime someone makes a suggestion. Also, no surprise their healthcare system failed miserably under a more market oriented healthcare system. At least it looks like they learned their lesson.

I guess we'll see then.
 

Budmantom

Lifer
Aug 17, 2002
13,103
1
81
Originally posted by: MotF Bane
Originally posted by: Phokus
http://news.xinhuanet.com/engl...5/content_10199688.htm

I'm going to predict that China will have a better healthcare system in the next few decades than we do because Americans are apparently too stupid to see the benefits of UHC while China seems to be able to openly discuss healthcare reform rather than screaming "SOCIALISM!" at the top of their lungs everytime someone makes a suggestion. Also, no surprise their healthcare system failed miserably under a more market oriented healthcare system. At least it looks like they learned their lesson.

1) China is theoretically still communist.
2) China doesn't protect free speech.

That's where the left wants to go.

 

RyanPaulShaffer

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2005
3,434
1
0
Originally posted by: Phokus
?Healthcare reform is a tough problem worldwide,? Peking University professor Li Ling said. ?To mobilize the whole nation to join the debate is an unprecedented move of the Chinese government, which ensures that the decision could be made in a prudent, scientific and democratic way.?

:laugh:

That is a hoot, coming from China.

:D
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
Originally posted by: Budmantom
Originally posted by: MotF Bane
Originally posted by: Phokus
http://news.xinhuanet.com/engl...5/content_10199688.htm

I'm going to predict that China will have a better healthcare system in the next few decades than we do because Americans are apparently too stupid to see the benefits of UHC while China seems to be able to openly discuss healthcare reform rather than screaming "SOCIALISM!" at the top of their lungs everytime someone makes a suggestion. Also, no surprise their healthcare system failed miserably under a more market oriented healthcare system. At least it looks like they learned their lesson.

1) China is theoretically still communist.
2) China doesn't protect free speech.

That's where the left wants to go.

:disgust:
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Originally posted by: MotF Bane
Originally posted by: Phokus
http://news.xinhuanet.com/engl...5/content_10199688.htm

I'm going to predict that China will have a better healthcare system in the next few decades than we do because Americans are apparently too stupid to see the benefits of UHC while China seems to be able to openly discuss healthcare reform rather than screaming "SOCIALISM!" at the top of their lungs everytime someone makes a suggestion. Also, no surprise their healthcare system failed miserably under a more market oriented healthcare system. At least it looks like they learned their lesson.

1) China is theoretically still communist.
2) China doesn't protect free speech.

Not even theoretically. They're communist in name only.

At least in terms of the healthcare debate, it appears to be very open (compared to what they're used to):

Opinions of health experts were seen in newspapers and magazines. Besides commenting on the plan itself, many agreed the government had taken an unprecedented open attitude towards the reform.

The rural/urban people affected by the current healthcare system are openly complaining about it and the government is encouraging debate and complaints because their healthcare system is fucked up.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Originally posted by: Budmantom
Originally posted by: MotF Bane
Originally posted by: Phokus
http://news.xinhuanet.com/engl...5/content_10199688.htm

I'm going to predict that China will have a better healthcare system in the next few decades than we do because Americans are apparently too stupid to see the benefits of UHC while China seems to be able to openly discuss healthcare reform rather than screaming "SOCIALISM!" at the top of their lungs everytime someone makes a suggestion. Also, no surprise their healthcare system failed miserably under a more market oriented healthcare system. At least it looks like they learned their lesson.

1) China is theoretically still communist.
2) China doesn't protect free speech.

That's where the left wants to go.

This is where the right wants to take us:

The country then gradually switched to a market-oriented medical system. However, soaring medical costs plunged many rural and urban Chinese into poverty.

If free market medical care was so great, then the Chinese wouldn't be put into poverty because of soaring costs and the Chinese government wouldn't be contemplating a shift back to government healthcare.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: MotF Bane
Originally posted by: Phokus
http://news.xinhuanet.com/engl...5/content_10199688.htm

I'm going to predict that China will have a better healthcare system in the next few decades than we do because Americans are apparently too stupid to see the benefits of UHC while China seems to be able to openly discuss healthcare reform rather than screaming "SOCIALISM!" at the top of their lungs everytime someone makes a suggestion. Also, no surprise their healthcare system failed miserably under a more market oriented healthcare system. At least it looks like they learned their lesson.

1) China is theoretically still communist.
2) China doesn't protect free speech.

Not even theoretically. They're communist in name only.

At least in terms of the healthcare debate, it appears to be very open (compared to what they're used to):

Opinions of health experts were seen in newspapers and magazines. Besides commenting on the plan itself, many agreed the government had taken an unprecedented open attitude towards the reform.

The rural/urban people affected by the current healthcare system are openly complaining about it and the government is encouraging debate and complaints because their healthcare system is fucked up.

They are complaining about the free market though, not complaining about socialism/communism. It works for their government, despite its increased free market leanings.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Originally posted by: MotF Bane


They are complaining about the free market though, not complaining about socialism/communism. It works for their government, despite its increased free market leanings.

They're complaining about lack of access/rising costs. I highly doubt the average chinese citizen gives a damn about the method of healthcare delivery rather than how well it works.

Growing public criticism of soaring medical fees, a lack of access to affordable medical services, poor doctor-patient relationships and low medical insurance coverage compelled the government to launch the new round of reforms.

Also, the chinese government was the one who reformed it from a government system to a market oriented system back in 90's, what do you mean 'it works for their government'. Do you honestly think they want to socialize everything just for the hell of it?

 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
First the left wants us to mimic Canada's Healthcare, then Britain, now China. What's next? Cuba?
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: Budmantom
Originally posted by: MotF Bane
Originally posted by: Phokus
http://news.xinhuanet.com/engl...5/content_10199688.htm

I'm going to predict that China will have a better healthcare system in the next few decades than we do because Americans are apparently too stupid to see the benefits of UHC while China seems to be able to openly discuss healthcare reform rather than screaming "SOCIALISM!" at the top of their lungs everytime someone makes a suggestion. Also, no surprise their healthcare system failed miserably under a more market oriented healthcare system. At least it looks like they learned their lesson.

1) China is theoretically still communist.
2) China doesn't protect free speech.

That's where the left wants to go.

This is where the right wants to take us:

The country then gradually switched to a market-oriented medical system. However, soaring medical costs plunged many rural and urban Chinese into poverty.

If free market medical care was so great, then the Chinese wouldn't be put into poverty because of soaring costs and the Chinese government wouldn't be contemplating a shift back to government healthcare.

Right. China's free market system.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Originally posted by: CPA
First the left wants us to mimic Canada's Healthcare, then Britain, now China. What's next? Cuba?

How about every other advanced westernized nation? And why would i want the US to mimic China's current healthcare system when it's market oriented system has completely failed?
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
Yeah, that's what we should be doing, taking ques from China on how to do things right in US society.

Idiot.
 

RyanPaulShaffer

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2005
3,434
1
0
Originally posted by: CPA
First the left wants us to mimic Canada's Healthcare, then Britain, now China. What's next? Cuba?

Democrat Rep. Diane Watson from California has already said:

"It was just mentioned to me by our esteemed speaker, ?Did anyone say anything about the Cuban health system??

And lemme tell ya, before you say ?Oh, it?s a commu??, you need to go down there and see what Fidel Castro put in place. And I want you to know, now, you can think whatever you want to about Fidel Castro, but he was one of the brightest leaders I have ever met."


The video of her saying this is out there on the Interwebs. Google around and be shocked at her remarks.
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,379
96
86
China became a major world power in the last 20 years, now that their government is going to be overburdened with rising health care costs, they too can wallow in mediocrity.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Yeah, that's what we should be doing, taking ques from China on how to do things right in US society.

Idiot.

Considering they're more open to reform than we are after they completely failed with a market oriented healthcare system, the only idiot is you and your ilk who wants to keep us in the dark ages of healthcare.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Originally posted by: Slew Foot
China became a major world power in the last 20 years, now that their government is going to be overburdened with rising health care costs, they too can wallow in mediocrity.

They ARE wallowing in mediocrity, that's why they want reform :confused:

The country then gradually switched to a market-oriented medical system. However, soaring medical costs plunged many rural and urban Chinese into poverty.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,697
6,257
126
China is no longer "Communist" and hasn't been for a long time now. Definitely not "Democratic", but given the openness being used in this debate they certainly are using some Democratic Ideals in this situation. What China is, happens to Authoritarian with Capitalist elements in its' Economic System and, at least in this case, seemingly becoming more Democratic like. China is doing what the Soviet Union should have done, that is to transition from Communism to something more Capitalist in a manner that maintained Political Stability during the process. Whether or not China succeeds in the transition all the way to a Democratic system or even intends to remains to be seen.
 

ohnoes

Senior member
Oct 11, 2007
269
0
0
Key difference is that the government of China can force change, whereas there's so much polarization here in the U.S. these days, nothing gets done. Although expensive in China isn't really expensive per se. Chinese medicine + hospital visits are dirt cheap. I went to the ER last year with some weird stomach pains, and it turned out to be just some indigestion or whatever. But the bill? 20RMB... thats like $3USD.
 

ebaycj

Diamond Member
Mar 9, 2002
5,418
0
0
Originally posted by: MotF Bane
Originally posted by: Phokus
http://news.xinhuanet.com/engl...5/content_10199688.htm

I'm going to predict that China will have a better healthcare system in the next few decades than we do because Americans are apparently too stupid to see the benefits of UHC while China seems to be able to openly discuss healthcare reform rather than screaming "SOCIALISM!" at the top of their lungs everytime someone makes a suggestion. Also, no surprise their healthcare system failed miserably under a more market oriented healthcare system. At least it looks like they learned their lesson.

1) China is theoretically still communist.
2) China doesn't protect free speech.

... And, by your logical conclusion, this means that any ideas that come out of China are bad ideas. Communists are not allowed to have good ideas. Right?
 

ebaycj

Diamond Member
Mar 9, 2002
5,418
0
0
Originally posted by: CPA
First the left wants us to mimic Canada's Healthcare, then Britain, now China. What's next? Cuba?

Cuba's healthcare system is more effective than ours when it comes to "accessibility of healthcare to the general populace".
 

ebaycj

Diamond Member
Mar 9, 2002
5,418
0
0
Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Originally posted by: CPA
First the left wants us to mimic Canada's Healthcare, then Britain, now China. What's next? Cuba?

Democrat Rep. Diane Watson from California has already said:

"It was just mentioned to me by our esteemed speaker, ?Did anyone say anything about the Cuban health system??

And lemme tell ya, before you say ?Oh, it?s a commu??, you need to go down there and see what Fidel Castro put in place. And I want you to know, now, you can think whatever you want to about Fidel Castro, but he was one of the brightest leaders I have ever met."


The video of her saying this is out there on the Interwebs. Google around and be shocked at her remarks.

Outside of a conservative's small mind, it is possible to have the words "good leader" and "communist" in the same sentence, and not have the world self-destruct.

To be honest, you have to be a pretty damn "bright leader" to keep people in your communist paradise happy enough not to revolt (and overthrow you) for 40+ years, which Fidel did do, mostly successfully.

I don't agree at all with his politics, but to deny that it has taken some serious leadership skills to rule his people/country is nuts.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Right and I bet 20 years ago the OP predicted the Chinese would make better cheaper cars as well. You think we have problems? Try covering 1.3 billion people. Even if they spend 1000 bucks per capita it eats 25% of their GDP. What kind of healthcare do you recieve for 1000 bucks?