China zooms ahead in education

Page 6 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
166
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
Are you kidding me? My wife just picked up 2 pairs of jeans for me during a Black Friday sale. They were under $15 each. (Arizona). Those 2 pairs will last me at least 7 or 8 years. You'll "just get them repaired" if they get torn. You say that as if there's no expense incurred in getting them repaired. I'll just throw mine out (or rather, use them for things like painting) if something happens. These are the first new pairs I've gotten in... well, at least since I moved to my new house, so going on 6 years?

Speaking of which, if you paint a room in your house or do other such projects, what do you wear?? Do you do it naked?

$270 divided by 15 = 18 pairs of jeans. Every time you get yours repaired, I'm going to guess that the cost is similar to a new pair of jeans for me. And, yes, I only purchase them when they're on sale.

I'm not necessarily saying that there's anything wrong with purchasing a $270 pair of jeans, but it's a piss poor example of "buying American" and more an example of an extravagant purchase.
--------------

On a related, more topical note:
Physicists demonstrate teleportation-based optical quantum entangling gate

http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-12-physicists-teleportation-based-optical-quantum-entangling.html

Cutting edge technology - seems that their universities are doing just fine.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
No I dont plan on changing styles.

Because awesome never changes :cool:

miami-vice.jpg

Guy on the left looks like he needs to be punched in the face a few times. Either that or he already was.



Speaking of which, if you paint a room in your house or do other such projects, what do you wear?? Do you do it naked?
I did construction for a while. I bought my pants at Vallue Village (used clothing store). Having $5 pants is awesome. You can rip them and not care at all. I love that kind of stress-free situation.
People with nice cars always piss me off. I get inside and they say I can't smoke in there, or drink soda, or eat fries. Well what kind of piece of shit car is this? My Ford Tempo supported smoking, and soda, and fries, and spilling shit on the floor. This BMW can't even do that? What a piece of shit. Cheaper = more better than.
 
Last edited:

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,418
1,599
126
People with nice cars always piss me off. I get inside and they say I can't smoke in there, or drink soda, or eat fries. Well what kind of piece of shit car is this? My Ford Tempo supported smoking, and soda, and fries, and spilling shit on the floor. This BMW can't even do that? What a piece of shit. Cheaper = more better than.


:D:D:D
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
166
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
This seemed a bit topical:
Whether you’re shopping for a fashion-savvy teenager or that brother who will only wear brand-name clothes, you’re paying a steep price for that coveted label. Brand-name clothes have a whopping markup of 500-1000%, explaining that outrageous price tag. If you’re a smart shopper, you’ll scratch these overpriced designer labels off your list.
In other words, your $270 jeans are really only worth about... $27. Not much more than everyone else's jeans.

edit: from Forbes
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
This seemed a bit topical:
In other words, your $270 jeans are really only worth about... $27. Not much more than everyone else's jeans.

edit: from Forbes

Oh jeez. That applies to jeans like true religion and rock n republic. You think solid copper rivets and zippers made in Kentucky are even $27?

Hell you can buy selvedge denim for $1500 with platinum threading down the outside. Do you think those only cost $27 to make?

We are talking about denim that is made on hand looms from the 1800's. This is different world from the label centric machined denim you are referring too.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
i want you to go and read about different weights of denim and indigo dying. I want you to go read about the japanese acquiring our old denim looms in the 1950's. There is a absolute movement to make clothing in a old fashioned way. Trades people making wonderful cloths. I wont even go into my boots except to say they have real nails in the sole. Would would scoff if you knew what was paid for them but guess what? They will last forever. My wallet's leather is of such high grade that I will be willing it to my children.

The modern designer garbage is designed to go out of style so that they can keep selling you things (notice all the little tied bows on everything this season?). This movement is about making articles of clothing of such quality that they will last and last and last.

If you dont get that fine but dont expect me to think my position is wrong because you are ignorant of the issue.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
I wear mostly Filson and carhartt - made is USA.

I don't dress nice but if I did there is Brooks Bros and plenty of other stuff.

You guys HAVE to try the Filson double leather belt. You'll never need another.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
IMO Raleigh jeans and Levi jeans are not competitors because they are not in the same market. A person shopping for $40 jeans is not going to be looking at $200 jeans. A more apt comparison would be $200 rock and republics made in China or. $276 Raleigh jeans made in America.

Do you have to spend $275? I mean seriously sounds ridiculous. My carhartt brush pants I have like 6 pair were made in USA and cost $50 at bass pro.



We need a made in USA thread though.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Do you have to spend $275? I mean seriously sounds ridiculous. My carhartt brush pants I have like 6 pair were made in USA and cost $50 at bass pro.



We need a made in USA thread though.

The carhartt fabric was probably not made in the usa. I'm not sure on this though.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
166
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
Oh jeez. That applies to jeans like true religion and rock n republic. You think solid copper rivets and zippers made in Kentucky are even $27?

Hell you can buy selvedge denim for $1500 with platinum threading down the outside. Do you think those only cost $27 to make?

We are talking about denim that is made on hand looms from the 1800's. This is different world from the label centric machined denim you are referring too.

According to Forbes, your little designer jeans are subjected to a markup of roughly 1000%.
That's thousand; three zeros. You're delusional if you think it costs anywhere in that neighborhood to make them.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
According to Forbes, your little designer jeans are subjected to a markup of roughly 1000%.
That's thousand; three zeros. You're delusional if you think it costs anywhere in that neighborhood to make them.

we are way off topic but how about you reread what i wrote. When you can comprehend the difference between designer labels and high quality workmanship I would be happy to continue a discussion with you.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
166
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
i want you to go and read about different weights of denim and indigo dying. I want you to go read about the japanese acquiring our old denim looms in the 1950's. There is a absolute movement to make clothing in a old fashioned way. Trades people making wonderful cloths. I wont even go into my boots except to say they have real nails in the sole. Would would scoff if you knew what was paid for them but guess what? They will last forever. My wallet's leather is of such high grade that I will be willing it to my children.

The modern designer garbage is designed to go out of style so that they can keep selling you things (notice all the little tied bows on everything this season?). This movement is about making articles of clothing of such quality that they will last and last and last.

If you dont get that fine but dont expect me to think my position is wrong because you are ignorant of the issue.

Wow, you sound a lot like JLGatsby. Same first letter there... could it be?!
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
ok ignore the problem. I use creativity and divergent thinking in my work so I'm safe its all you punters with your cs degrees that are fucked.

What's "divergent thinking"?

Believe me, no decent software developer is worried about their job being moved overseas, and the job requires enormous amounts of creativity. The communication issues caused by the language gap alone make it worth it to source your developer talent locally.

When you incentivise kids in k12 to be or at least act dumb ("I don't like math, but I'm good at sports"), you shouldn't be surprised to see these results.

As someone that came into the US mid-way though highschool, it is painfully obvious to me that the k12 system was designed to crank out blue collar workers.

Being smart gets your labeled as nerd and put into undesirable social clique, but focusing all your energy on some sort of "varsity" sports has nearly instant social upsides. Never seen anything like that in Europe; having good grades was seen as universal positive.

Very interesting, never thought about it that way.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
"For one thing, educators are shifting away from lecturing and exam-based grades -- just as the U.S. is embracing more standardized metrics. In China, education czars are putting less emphasis on tests and more on in-class experiments and discussions."

No Child Left Behind = Bipartisan failure?

No Child Left Behind is the reason there's a retarded child, I don't give a fuck if I'm not being politically correct, slowing down the learning in my baby sisters 3rd grade classroom. Everything has to slow down to help her out because she's slow and born with disabilities. Fuck that noise. Why are we fighting so hard to hold on to the lowest common denominator in this nation?
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
That doesnt matter to the necons. This is a plot like global warming to take more of their money.

I highly doubt more money is the solution. IMO Teachers need to be held accountable for the job they do, just like anyone else who performs shitty at their job. To bad teachers are rarely fired, but forced to resign then take up position in a different school district(this happened to a teacher I had whom we got "fired").
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
I highly doubt more money is the solution. IMO Teachers need to be held accountable for the job they do, just like anyone else who performs shitty at their job.

Fair enough, but how do you expect them to do this? They can't scream at your kids, they can't touch your kids, they can't do anything. Some punk kid in grade 1 can throw shit around the room and there's absolutely nothing the teacher can do. Even touch that kid and you're looking at the parents suing and the administrators doing something to make an example out of you.

You wanted children who had no respect for authority and that's exactly what you got, America :thumbsdown:
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
Fair enough, but how do you expect them to do this? They can't scream at your kids, they can't touch your kids, they can't do anything. Some punk kid in grade 1 can throw shit around the room and there's absolutely nothing the teacher can do. Even touch that kid and you're looking at the parents suing and the administrators doing something to make an example out of you.

You wanted children who had no respect for authority and that's exactly what you got, America :thumbsdown:

Start kicking problem children out of school completely, let their parents pay for them to go to a private school or no school at all. Maybe the parents will beat some sense into their children and then they could take some tests to possibly let back into the school system.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
I highly doubt more money is the solution. IMO Teachers need to be held accountable for the job they do, just like anyone else who performs shitty at their job. To bad teachers are rarely fired, but forced to resign then take up position in a different school district(this happened to a teacher I had whom we got "fired").

I agree. But also our culture frowns down upon study so we are fucked.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
Dickie work pants can be purchased in lovely colors like blue. I hate blue-Jeans. Dress Slacks are also cooler. Dont ever wear or own any blue jeans. I work in an office and they are not allowed for work either.
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
32
91
All of this concern about American students falling behind foreign students behind is overblown. Our politicians and intellectuals want us to blame our education system and not our nation's economic policies.

It's a red herring. It's a smokescreen. It's really a non-issue. Why is that?

(1.) Because heavy-duty science and technology research only accounts for a small percentage of actual economic activity, perhaps 1% or less. If an invention is discovered in another nation, that knowledge can be transported to the U.S. and used in the U.S. (Did someone invent a better computer chip? There's no metaphysical reason why we can't manufacture it here ourselves once the knowledge of how to make it is communicated.)

(2.) The U.S. doesn't have any shortage of scientists or engineers nor of smart, talented, hard-working, ambitious Americans who would or could train to be scientists and engineers. See:

The Real Science Gap: It's not insufficient schooling or a shortage of scientists. It's a lack of job opportunities. Americans need the reasonable hope that spending their youth preparing to do science will provide a hope that spending their youth preparing to do science will provide a satisfactory career.

(3.) Our economic well-being is ultimately based on our ability and willingness to produce goods and services for our own consumption. It doesn't matter if people in China and other nations are smarter as long as we can produce what we need and want to consume.

--------------------------

First off, many of those studies of American education include the impoverished children in the inner cities. If you look at students in the suburbs we're doing much better.

Secondly, only about 15% of all jobs require or make any real use of college education at all. Surprise! The vast majority of jobs are blue collar labor and retail service jobs. Right now the U.S. have a large excess of people who are going to college, many of whom are ending up unemployed or underemployed-and-involuntarily-out-of-field and with student loan debts that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.

As far as science and technology goes, just because 95% of Americans might not be good at science, engineering, and math doesn't mean that the 5% of Americans who need to be good at it are not good at it and are not learning it properly in our colleges and universities. In fact, our nation actually has a huge oversupply of PhD scientists, a great many of whom end up unemployed, underemployed-out-of-field, or underemployed working low-wage gypsy scientist positions called postdoctorates.

In fact, because we import the best and brightest foreigners to compete domestically against Americans, the best and brightest American students no longer have a financial or vocational reason to major in science or engineering. Instead, it makes more sense to go to medical school or to major in finance and become a bankster.

So what if 90% of Americans don't know much about science or math? How many people actually need to use it at their jobs? Does it really matter if a truck driver doesn't understand basic principles of genetics? Does it matter if a waitress cannot solve differential equations? Does it matter if a janitor doesn't understand thermodynamics? Does it matter if a school administrator knows nothing about quantum mechanics? Does it matter if the cashier at Best Buy failed calculus? Does your average lawyer or MBA need to know anything about protein structure and function?

All of this hand-wringing about American education and how American students are falling behind is being used as a politically correct, convenient scapegoat for our nation's real economic problems.

It's easier to say that "Americans are not good enough" than it is to say that relatively impoverished foreign workers are willing to do American jobs for 1/10th of the wage and standard of living. It's easier to blame our problems on bad education than it is to blame it on foreign outsourcing, the displacement of Americans by foreigners on H-1B and L-1 visas, and the displacement of Americans from lower class jobs by hordes of millions of impoverished immigrants.

If we want to solver our nation's economic problems:

(1.) End foreign outsourcing. Require that all physical goods and knowledge-based services that are to be consumed in the U.S. are produced in the U.S.

(2.) End the H-1B and L-1 visa programs. Give Americans a financial and vocational incentive to educate and train in STEM field areas.

(3.) End mass immigration. Stop depressing wages for the lower classes and reduce the amounts of unemployment for them.

If the best scientists and engineers end up living in China or India or Korea or wherever it's really a non-issue. For any inventions or new knowledge to be used in the U.S. the goods and services would have to be produced in the U.S. by American labor. (We can also steal ideas and use them for ourselves just like the Chinese have.)

Ultimately, all of the concerns people have about our nation's educational system and about American students supposedly falling behind and being outworked by foreign students is really about Global Labor Arbitrage. Our politicians and intellectuals are using this farce to fool the sheeple into believing that Americans are just not good enough when in reality our problem is awful American economic policies.