China wants to bully automakers into giving up their IP

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
5,292
0
0
God, I hate this country. More specifically, their government. They try to bully anyone and everyone. When they fail with that, they just steal.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...95480368918268.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEFTWhatsNews

China Spooks Auto Makers

Foreign Companies Fear New Rules on Electric Cars Will Erode Intellectual Property

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...5480368918268.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEFTWhatsNews#

By NORIHIKO SHIROUZU

BEIJING—China's government is considering plans that could force foreign auto makers to hand over cutting-edge electric-vehicle technology to Chinese companies in exchange for access to the nation's huge market, international auto executives say.
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Bloomberg News An E6 electric vehicle developed by China's BYD Co. at April's Beijing Auto Show. BYD plans to launch the car in China and the U.S. this year

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China's Ministry of Industry and Information Technology is preparing a 10-year plan aimed at turning China into "the world's leader" in developing and producing battery-powered cars and hybrids, according to executives at four foreign car companies who are familiar with the ministry's proposal.
The draft suggests that the government could compel foreign auto makers that want to produce electric vehicles in China to share critical technologies by requiring the companies to enter joint ventures in which they are limited to a minority stake, the executives say.
The plan is "tantamount to China strong-arming foreign auto makers to give up battery, electric-motor, and control technology in exchange for market access," says a senior executive at one foreign car maker. "We don't like it."

The car executives are joining a chorus of companies criticizing China's industrial policies. Business people and government officials say Beijing's so-called indigenous-innovation efforts discriminate against them and are aimed at gaining control of foreign intellectual property.
Such complaints come amid broader frustration in the U.S. and elsewhere over China's trade and currency policies. Critics say China has kept the value of its currency artificially low, giving the country's exporters an unfair advantage in world markets.
On Thursday, U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner told a Congressional panel that China needs to let its currency strengthen significantly. But he attempted to dissuade lawmakers from pursuing punitive steps against China, which he said could be counterproductive.
China's market is becoming indispensable for many companies. And multinational corporations continue to pour investment into China, which has mushroomed into a top market for everything from iron ore and cars to personal computers, beer and Bordeaux wine.

But as the Chinese market's importance to global companies has increased in the wake of the global financial crisis, the government has sought to trade access for technology in an effort to speed the country's industrial transformation. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce in July said China's policies are "forcing foreign technology companies to anguish over balancing today's profits with tomorrow's survival."
Top executives at chemical giant BASF AG and industrial conglomerate Siemens AG recently raised concerns about Beijing's policies in a public meeting with Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao. Those comments followed similar complaints by General Electric Co. Chief Executive Jeffrey Immelt.
The U.S. on Wednesday filed two trade cases at the World Trade Organization, claiming discrimination by Beijing against U.S. steel makers and credit-card companies.
Beijing says concerns about the investment environment are unfounded. "China is committed to creating an open and fair environment for foreign-invested enterprises," Mr. Wen told global business leaders at a meeting of the World Economic Forum in China this week. "Foreign-invested enterprises in China on the whole enjoy a good environment and have reaped good returns."
China, set to surpass Japan as the world's second-largest economy this year, is already the world's largest vehicle market. Sales in China have become an important source of profit for many multinational car makers.
But China has yet to produce a home-grown car company that can compete on the global stage. The government sees the emergence of electric vehicles as a chance to put its auto industry into the world's top tier.
The government's electric-vehicle plan is aimed at building three to five Chinese companies into globally competitive makers of all-electric cars or plug-in hybrids by 2020. It also would promote the growth of two to three global suppliers of key components, such as advanced battery and electric-motor technologies.
The plan calls for investment of as much as 100 billion yuan, or about $15 billion, in areas such as charging stations and other infrastructure, two of the foreign auto executives say. It isn't clear how much of that would be corporate investment and how much would come from the government.

One foreign auto executive said the Industry Ministry's draft "unnecessarily raises the hurdle for our plans for producing an electric car in China." Since China is likely to be a major market for electric cars and plug-in hybrids by 2020, multinational car companies will need to manufacture such vehicles in China, he says. "But the new pending policy would make the process unnecessarily more cumbersome and complicated."
Toyota has postponed the rollout of the latest version of its Prius hybrid—which has been on sale in Japan and the U.S. since 2009—in China until the government's policies become clearer, people close to Toyota said.
The technology-transfer provisions could be changed or scaled back before the plan is finalized. The Industry Ministry recently distributed the draft to other government agencies and to state-owned auto makers to seek their opinions. If there is no major opposition, the plan could be implemented as soon as next month, according to the executives, although they expect it will likely take longer.
Wang Lijian, director of the ministry's news office, said industrial-policy makers at the ministry responsible for the draft weren't available for comment.
In coming decades, "China is going to go from following the industry to leading the industry in automotive technology," said Zhang Baolin, president of Chang'an Automobile Co., a state-owned enterprise in Chongqing. "There will be lots of opportunities for us in the new-energy automotive field."
The Industry Ministry projects that China will have five million electric cars and plug-in hybrids on the roads by 2020, and Chinese auto makers will have the capacity to produce and sell three million gas-electric hybrids a year in China.
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Under the ministry's proposed plan, foreign auto makers must form joint ventures with Chinese companies if the foreigners decide to produce key new-energy components, such as advanced lithium-ion batteries and high-power electric motors, in China. Given the size of China's market and the costs involved in importing those components, most foreign companies that make electric vehicles would feel it necessary to produce those components in China.
The plan would cap foreign ownership in the ventures at 49%, giving majority ownership and effective control to the Chinese partners, the foreign executives say. Foreign companies now are allowed in most cases 50% ownership of ventures that make gasoline-powered cars.
"We need to make sure we have a contract or agreement that allows us to continue to own and control the technology, even though we might be a minority stakeholder," said one of the foreign auto executives.

—Sue Feng contributed to this article.
Write to Norihiko Shirouzu at norihiko.shirouzu@wsj.com
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,365
1,223
126
Good thing we are more worried about fightin' them terrorists than an entire country wishing to become the new "boss".
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
The only thing China actually invents are better ways to steal; if you consider their economy is the second largest in the world what do they actually invent? Intellectual property has no meaning there. Entire factories exist out in the open to do nothing but sell bastardized versions of products designed elsewhere.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
36,124
10,433
136
The Chinese government owns China and everything in it. This should not surprise anyone.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
Oh Boo-Fucking hoo,

Always low prices, cheaper is better, Americans are overpaid, we can make more profit by outsourcing, etc., etc.

We sold them our balls so we could save a buck and now they are squeezing, perhaps if we are nice they will be kind enough to give us a reach around while they're screwing us out of the last thing we have, our IP.
 

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
5,292
0
0
Oh Boo-Fucking hoo,

Always low prices, cheaper is better, Americans are overpaid, we can make more profit by outsourcing, etc., etc.

We sold them our balls so we could save a buck and now they are squeezing, perhaps if we are nice they will be kind enough to give us a reach around while they're screwing us out of the last thing we have, our IP.

Can't argue with you there. These companies danced with the devil and are getting their just desserts. Almost like going into a partnership with a criminal. You know you're going to get screwed one way or another.
 

extra

Golden Member
Dec 18, 1999
1,947
7
81
Oh Boo-Fucking hoo,

Always low prices, cheaper is better, Americans are overpaid, we can make more profit by outsourcing, etc., etc.

We sold them our balls so we could save a buck and now they are squeezing, perhaps if we are nice they will be kind enough to give us a reach around while they're screwing us out of the last thing we have, our IP.

Sadly, this is 100% accurate. I wish it weren't....but it is.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,825
6,374
126
Oh Boo-Fucking hoo,

Always low prices, cheaper is better, Americans are overpaid, we can make more profit by outsourcing, etc., etc.

We sold them our balls so we could save a buck and now they are squeezing, perhaps if we are nice they will be kind enough to give us a reach around while they're screwing us out of the last thing we have, our IP.

Yup. I didn't read the whole article, but from what I did read it seems they're just making good decisions. You want access to Chinese Markets, you have to abide by certain rules. If you don't, well too bad.

If things were different, I'd suggest that the US(or others) might want to ok such arrangements, but in turn not allow such Products brought about by such arrangements into their Markets. However, especially for the US, they just don't have the negotiating position to make such stipulations.
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,521
600
126
Cheap Shit Made in China is like CRACK to the American Consumer and they KNOW IT.
 

DesiPower

Lifer
Nov 22, 2008
15,299
740
126
Americans of all people should know the basic concept of slavery - Do what the master says. So whats the problem here? China asks you to open you komodo, you fvckin do it, Microsoft did it and look they are the new master's favorite, much less porch time, just follow their example...
 
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BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,941
1
0
Oh Boo-Fucking hoo,

Always low prices, cheaper is better, Americans are overpaid, we can make more profit by outsourcing, etc., etc.

We sold them our balls so we could save a buck and now they are squeezing, perhaps if we are nice they will be kind enough to give us a reach around while they're screwing us out of the last thing we have, our IP.

This isn't about using China as a manufacturing base -- there are plenty of up-and-coming countries where new factories can be set up -- this is about accessing the brand-new Chinese market for the higher-end goods. Simply put, China is a huge new market and the government is creating a double-standard which puts foreign companies at a significant disadvantage.
 

Cattykit

Senior member
Nov 3, 2009
521
0
0
Americans of all people should know the basic concept of slavery - Do what the master says. So whats the problem here? China asks you to open you komodo, you fvckin do it, Microsoft did it and look they are the new master's favorite, much less porch time, just follow their example...

:rolleyes:
 

SammyJr

Golden Member
Feb 27, 2008
1,708
0
0
Good for them. At least they have the balls to take on big corporations. All our politicians do is kiss CEO and lobbyist asses as they send American jobs to China.
 
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Cattykit

Senior member
Nov 3, 2009
521
0
0
And SAIC has shown interest of buying GM. And it's the same company that once bought SSangyong Motors only to trash it after acquiring IP.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
The only thing China actually invents are better ways to steal; if you consider their economy is the second largest in the world what do they actually invent? Intellectual property has no meaning there. Entire factories exist out in the open to do nothing but sell bastardized versions of products designed elsewhere.

A lot more than IP. People have no value there which is why factory owners, usually in thick with "communist" party, get 99% of proceeds and labor 1%. Virtual slaves held on factory compounds with factory police to bust heads and option to call in the heavies, the army if shit gets too revolutionary. Zero environmental laws. You can't even see bill boards in many of China's cities. Zero human rights. Death penalty for petty crimes.

Still waiting for that democracy divided promised by our outsellers and offshorering pimps who told us to give up our industrial and manufacturing jobs... I'll be long gone before that ever happens if it ever happens. Question is where are we moving in the meantime. More police state, check. Loosening up labor and environmental laws to "compete" check.
 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
0
0
Well, their IP laws should benefit their own country. Of course, maybe it'll come back to haunt them once they start developing more cutting edge IP.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
This isn't about using China as a manufacturing base -- there are plenty of up-and-coming countries where new factories can be set up -- this is about accessing the brand-new Chinese market for the higher-end goods. Simply put, China is a huge new market and the government is creating a double-standard which puts foreign companies at a significant disadvantage.


And how do you think China came to a position of power where they can now dictate terms including IP control?

Only fools would have believed that China was going to open their markets up in the same manner Americans have once they have become a viable market.
 

5150Joker

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2002
5,549
0
71
www.techinferno.com
Personally I don't find anything wrong with what China is doing. Why should they open up their market completely without getting anything out of it? That would turn their economy into what the US has become: a consumer society that doesn't produce shit. They want a chance for their domestic auto industry to thrive and EV's are a way to get there, good for them! At least their government is looking out for their public's future by ensuring they have a viable domestic competitor and aren't 100% reliant on foreign auto manufacturers. Self sufficiency is key to building a strong nation, just look at WWII Germany as an example. While Swedes, French and Americans are busy scapegoating Muslims and foreigners for their troubles, China is swiftly building up it's economy and military to become a dominant world power and they deserve it.
 
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