China to patent bullet train technology.

[Schadenfroh]

You're delusional if you think that other cultures don't favor innovation.

I did not say that it is unique to Western culture, I said that modern Western culture (aka European culture) has advantages over certain Chinese cultural tendencies when it comes to innovation. This obviously applies to non-Western cultures that value original work as well.

From the article:

Michael Zielenziger, who until recently was with the Monitor Group consulting firm, believes that reform is necessary.

"We have to lose some of the Confucian obedience of the university system, and have more give and take, and collaboration and aggressive debate, to move molecules forward, to move ideas forward," says the co-author of a report called "China: The Life Sciences Leader of 2020."

"You can also ask the question, 'At what point does the free expression challenge in China get in the way of scientific research?' And that's a fair question, which I don't have an answer to," he says.

 

[RabidMongoose]

I did not say that it is unique to Western culture, I said that modern Western culture (ie European culture) has advantages over certain Chinese cultural tendencies when it comes to innovation.

From the article:

Maybe, but we in the US aren't fully of European cultural tendencies, thank god. And we need to continue to depart from European tendencies if we want to keep a competitive advantage for innovation. European culture doesn't provide much of an advantage for innovation. It's the reason why we have so many people majoring in useless things like European Literature of the 18th century written by monks named Henry instead of useful things.

 

[Rainsford]

That is the our system is skewed, and very few companies (like Apple) do any differently. The executives in charge make most of their real wealth off of stock and stock earnings. Our stock prices are absolutely driven by the quarterly reports and future guidance-the company beats what the street expects, stock goes crazy upwards, they miss, it tanks.

It's not that way because we have a capitalist system, but because of the way our stock rules are structured. A few relatively simple changes could totally change the incentives and direction of US business. But huge wealth and powerful interests (Wall Street and the corporate top executives) would fight any such change tooth and nail.

I'm not sure it's stock rules so much as the modern nature of investing. Rather than making a long term investment in a company you believe in, "investing" now is all about the quick money based on playing tricks with the market...a lot of it having nothing to do with traditional investing in any real sense. When your financial system involves things like having brokerage computers close on the network to the trading computers to take advantage of sub-second inconsistencies in the market, you may be deep in the weeds

 

[Rainsford]

Maybe, but we in the US aren't fully of European cultural tendencies, thank god. And we need to continue to depart from European tendencies if we want to keep a competitive advantage for innovation. European culture doesn't provide much of an advantage for innovation. It's the reason why we have so many people majoring in useless things like European Literature of the 18th century written by monks named Henry instead of useful things.

Really? Europe seems to produce plenty of innovating and scientific and engineering advances. And I'd argue that in some ways they respect science and engineering far more than we do.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Really? Europe seems to produce plenty of innovating and scientific and engineering advances. And I'd argue that in some ways they respect science and engineering far more than we do.

Yes. Europe may provide some innovation, but European culture doesn't promote innovation. I'd put it well below American, Chinese, etc. cultural standards.

 

[Rainsford]

Yes. Europe may provide some innovation, but European culture doesn't promote innovation. I'd put it well below American, Chinese, etc. cultural standards.

You could have a point there, but I'd argue that China has serious problems with innovation as well. Chinese culture is far more about collective behavior and going along with the group than European and especially American culture. Truly original ideas have a harder time coming from a place that places high value on conformity.

I'd say that from that perspective, America has a good leg up on much of the world. We encourage quite the opposite kind of behavior. Maverick behavior is a part of our culture that works in science just as well as anywhere else. Our problem is more that we don't place as high of a value on science and engineering in general as we should. The Chinese value those things highly, they have problems with the other end of the issue.

 

[0roo0roo]

Considering China constantly steals technology without paying the companies that own the patents I have a feeling no one will care as much.

http://blogs.mcafee.com/mcafee-labs/revealed-operation-shady-rat
probably should have a moratorium on any further chinese patents.

 

[Infohawk]

Our problem is more that we don't place as high of a value on science and engineering in general as we should. The Chinese value those things highly, they have problems with the other end of the issue.

Chinese only value it because they see it as a path to money and status. Making every kid study calculus during the summer doesn't really produce innovation. You want innovation? Have a blend of creativity and curiosity and allow people with a genuine interest in science and engineering to pursue it. This is what free western cultures have produced for centuries, in the US and Europe.

 

[CanOWorms]

Yes. Europe may provide some innovation, but European culture doesn't promote innovation. I'd put it well below American, Chinese, etc. cultural standards.

True. Much of European culture developed through colonialism where slaughtering others and extracting wealth was more valued than innovation. This is why nowadays, when considering technology development, most European countries seem very backwards. They are the new third world.

The US needs to continue to divorce itself from Western culture and embrace science and technology as respectable professions.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Much of European culture developed through colonialism where slaughtering others and extracting wealth was more valued than innovation.

European culture was "exported" via colonialism. Competition among European powers drove innovation towards improving trade (ship / navigation technology, railroads, etc.), manufacturing (metallurgy, electricity, etc.), arms, etc. After the European recovery from the fall of The Western Roman Empire (The Renaissance), the trade and arms races among European powers brought forth technological advances that resulted in The Enlightenment and the Industrial Era.

The driving forces were nationalism, greed and ambition, which turn out to be quite effective at motivating people to advance and capitalism (with government regulation) exploits these traits.

The US needs to continue to divorce itself from Western culture

American culture is a subset Western Culture. Canada, The United States, Australia and New Zealand are de facto European countries on different continents. Even inhabitants that are not of European descent (like Blacks) are de facto Europeans via cultural assimilation (acknowledging that some of their ancestors had it forced upon them).

 

[CanOWorms]

European culture was "exported" via colonialism.

Are you suggesting that killing billions of people is exporting culture?

Competition among European powers drove innovation towards improving trade (ship / navigation technology, railroads, etc.), manufacturing (metallurgy, electricity, etc.), arms, etc. After the European recovery from the fall of The Western Roman Empire (The Renaissance), the trade and arms races among European powers brought forth technological advances that resulted in The Enlightenment and the Industrial Era.

Yes, most innovation in Europe came from finding new ways to kill more people. However, I don't see how you're refuting what I stated. They still valued wealth extraction and murder over innovation.

Humanity is probably centuries behind in terms of technology because of European barbarism. It devastated the world.

American culture is a subset Western Culture. Canada, The United States, Australia and New Zealand are de facto European countries on different continents. Even inhabitants that are not of European descent (like Blacks) are de facto Europeans via cultural assimilation (acknowledging that some of their ancestors had it forced upon them).

American culture used to be a subset of Western culture. It has been separated from it for some time now though. We still have certain elements that are Western-based, such as the Tea Party, but they are becoming the minority and unassimilated part of a new American society. American innovation is most certainly not Western culture.

 

[piasabird]

China never honored any of our patents, so why should we honor theirs? China does actually make a lot of niche products. They make things like Electric conversion kits for bicycles. See the Golden Motor Company. They make hub motors.