China to Ban Sale of Fossil Fuel Cars in Electric Vehicle Push

[Puffnstuff]

There is literally zero value to be gained from inefficient RWD vehicles when it comes to the actual use of real cars in the world today--not the fantasies presented to us on TV ads.

Blasphemy, pure blasphemy. Given a choice I'll take rear wheel drive any day of the week over fwd.

 

[Ajay]

what are you talking about? have you ever crossed the Bay Bridge in empty traffic or seen miles of empty road ahead of you on I 95 during rush hour? Do you actually drive, or not? Is it painful reminding people that the actual experience of daily driving is a chore that everyone hates?

I live in New Hampshire so....

 

[local]

98% of your real life driving has nothing to do with fun, excitement, or performance. It is abject misery getting from home to shitty place A to shitty place B and back to home, sitting in wretched, deplorable traffic. There is literally zero value to be gained from inefficient RWD vehicles when it comes to the actual use of real cars in the world today--not the fantasies presented to us on TV ads.

Perhaps there is still some place in closed circuits and desolate country roads where your primary obstacle would be a wandering cow, but I can't imagine a worthwhile defense of a design meant for efficiency, general use, and "better shuffling from point to point in steal prisons" that would support RWD.

Every corner is an opportunity for a little wheel spin and every weekend I can go to the track. I am sorry your driving experience is such abject misery, it must be terrible.

 

[cytg111]

There are multiple fuel technologies now in an absolute sense, but in terms of ones we use for common consumer automobiles it really comes down to diesel, gasoline, and (obviously a tiny tiny tiny tiny fraction) batteries. Natural gas is interesting as a different option but if the goal is to move away from fossil fuels is kinda a silly option.....ditto on some of the other gases. Regarding charging, really it is about common driving preferences; obviously a person who drives 200 miles a day might want to stay with ICE or H2 or etc, but if you have a 15A or 20A breaker you have 1.8 or 2.4 kW at 120V; with ~250Wh/mile; if you plug your car in at 7 PM and drive at 7 AM you have the potential to charge something like 86 or 115 miles of range a night. At 300 Wh/mile, its only 70 or 95. Not enough for someone with a fucking-kill-me-now daily commute but enough for most tasks, and then you have access to higher charging rates at various locations for longer trips/vacations. Not nearly as fast as filling a gas tank, but much faster than 4-12 hours. There will always be a need for a vehicle that can be filled more quickly for daily driving, and I think that big trucks and similar will need some much more impressive breakthroughs to really have a chance of going battery powered, but for most people's driving habits the above is fine.

The road ahead : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVB4CpAIz3U

 

[JimKiler]

Remember when a common climate change denier argument was that even if climate change were real China and India wouldn't do anything to curb their emissions so we shouldn't either? Strange how none of them ever came back to admit they were wrong.

Just kidding, it's not strange. They just moved on to new excuses.

That was probably my point I was arguing. But since there was a time limit to reply i will keep my opinion to myself on this.

Actually my two arguments were

1. countries like China and India are huge polluters.
2. businesses are much larger polluters than consumer cars, isn't there 10 container ships banned from US waters because they pollute so much? (sort of true, here is a reply on Quora that seems to makes sense: https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-th...orld-produce-more-pollution-than-all-the-cars) I really should research that more. But I am not a climate denier anymore, I am accepting but i would like to see stricter regulations on things that make a bigger impact. So I am pro this mandate in China. I am sure even the climate deniers would be for this mandate. I never understood that if you want to help the US economy as others have said work on these new technologies, that is a way better stimulus to the economy than helping that one coal worker who got Trump's attention.

 

[zinfamous]

I live in New Hampshire so....

Great, so you're the 1% (and, assuming you don't actually commute to Boston like everyone else in NH?)

Every corner is an opportunity for a little wheel spin

no it isn't, unless you are 17--in which case, stop that nonsense

and every weekend I can go to the track. I am sorry your driving experience is such abject misery, it must be terrible.

...which is totally fine, but having fun on the track is not related to driving on surface streets; and the proper vehicle for each situation is completely improper for the other.

 

[tommo123]

Agreed and at some point cars will likely be charged over the air from towers or from materials incorporated into our building materials or any number of new and exciting ways. Everywhere you go your car, phone, and everything else will just be charging all the time.
As long as you don't drive off the grid you should be able to drive non-stop.

who pays for this electricity? unless your car reports back how much juice it's sucking up and you get charged for it. but then that means if you loan your car to someone - you pay for the "fuel"

 

[tommo123]

Blasphemy, pure blasphemy. Given a choice I'll take rear wheel drive any day of the week over fwd.

when i drove i just wanted something cheap and reliable. rear,front or 4 wheel - didn't give a crap. i didn't drive for fun, i drove to work or university and that was that. i imagine most people are like that. i sure as crap wouldn't pay extra for "fun" in a car unless she was really worth the money - and she did anal.

 

[Puffnstuff]

when i drove i just wanted something cheap and reliable. rear,front or 4 wheel - didn't give a crap. i didn't drive for fun, i drove to work or university and that was that. i imagine most people are like that. i sure as crap wouldn't pay extra for "fun" in a car unless she was really worth the money - and she did anal.

For me it goes beyond the fun aspect as I prefer the driving dynamics of rear wheel drive which is one of the reasons I've kept a full size pickup truck for so many years. I could live with something like a Kia Sportage with awd that can bias the power to the rear wheels.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I am shocked that Underoos was once again was played by some guy pushing an agenda in a you-tube video.

Took me a grand total of about 2 minutes to find more articles like that than I could shake a stick at. <shrug> Maybe the movement will give him a participation trophy at least.

 

[Zorba]

98% of your real life driving has nothing to do with fun, excitement, or performance. It is abject misery getting from home to shitty place A to shitty place B and back to home, sitting in wretched, deplorable traffic. There is literally zero value to be gained from inefficient RWD vehicles when it comes to the actual use of real cars in the world today--not the fantasies presented to us on TV ads.

Perhaps there is still some place in closed circuits and desolate country roads where your primary obstacle would be a wandering cow, but I can't imagine a worthwhile defense of a design meant for efficiency, general use, and "better shuffling from point to point in steal prisons" that would support RWD.

How is RWD inefficient if the motor is in the back? Same for traction, if you move the weight to the back you should still get the benefits of FWD traction. You would end up with less tire and shaft wear, though.

 

[bshole]

what are you talking about? have you ever crossed the Bay Bridge in empty traffic or seen miles of empty road ahead of you on I 95 during rush hour? Do you actually drive, or not? Is it painful reminding people that the actual experience of daily driving is a chore that everyone hates?

The daily drive is the highlight of my week. I couldn't live without it. Books on CD are a thing.....

 

[Ajay]

Great, so you're the 1% (and, assuming you don't actually commute to Boston like everyone else in NH?)

I think it's closer to 20% based on census data, but I get your point. Going south for work, into the greater Boston Metro area, is infuriating. For Boston itself I'd park and ride (bus or train). The ppl that commute to Boston every day from NH are marginally crazy in my mind.

 

[zinfamous]

I think it's closer to 20% based on census data, but I get your point. Going south for work, into the greater Boston Metro area, is infuriating. For Boston itself I'd park and ride (bus or train). The ppl that commute to Boston every day from NH are marginally crazy in my mind.

The commute range in the Bay Area extends from Sacramento and as far as San Jose and points south and east. (not that entire distance--I think--but yes, people commute from Sacramento to SF...I consider these people "touched"). Here in DCMA, southern PA is generally considered part of the commute range. It's nuts.

I actually enjoy driving--actual driving--but I realize that such barely exists in modern life. From Chicago to SF Bay Area and now DCMA, I refuse to live outside of an area with solid PT and even potential to walk to work (which I have been lucky enough to manage most of that time). The day when all daily driving is replaced by robots and half the lanes and nearly all the parking lots are reclaimed for actual public, potentially green use, can't come soon enough.

 

[thilanliyan]

driving dynamics of rear wheel drive which is one of the reasons I've kept a full size pickup truck.

Does not compute...

 

[local]

The commute range in the Bay Area extends from Sacramento and as far as San Jose and points south and east. (not that entire distance--I think--but yes, people commute from Sacramento to SF...I consider these people "touched"). Here in DCMA, southern PA is generally considered part of the commute range. It's nuts.

I actually enjoy driving--actual driving--but I realize that such barely exists in modern life. From Chicago to SF Bay Area and now DCMA, I refuse to live outside of an area with solid PT and even potential to walk to work (which I have been lucky enough to manage most of that time). The day when all daily driving is replaced by robots and half the lanes and nearly all the parking lots are reclaimed for actual public, potentially green use, can't come soon enough.

I have a 32 mile commute from BFE to almost the exact middle of Dallas/Ft. Worth. 15 miles of my daily commute is at 65 mph on a twisty two lane blacktop, the other 15 miles is going to be a wide open highway next year. Averages about 45 minutes each way and is the highlight of my day. Nothing beats windows down on an open road with the power of a V8 pushing you through the turns and the growl it lets out as you accelerate out of them. You are excited for the future of autonomous vehicles whereas I see them as the death of one of the best experiences I have every day.

I will grant you this though, if I lived in a traffic hell hole I may think differently. But that is part of the reason I live where I do.

 

[K1052]

I will grant you this though, if I lived in a traffic hell hole I may think differently. But that is part of the reason I live where I do.

That's kind of his whole point. Tens of millions of people live in places subject to congestion and the reality of their driving experience is bumper to bumper stop and go. Hardly an experience worth romanticizing and one that will be very eagerly given up to autonomy when the time comes.

 

[Thebobo]

RWD came first. The benefits of RWD add fun, excitement and performance. The benefits of FWD add utility. There is a reason pretty much every performance and exotic car is RWD or AWD with a rear wheel bias. Electric RWD adds the benefits of FWD to RWD while sacrificing nothing.

burnouts are cool!

 

[Puffnstuff]

Does not compute...

It should if you're trying to tow something and especially if that something is heavy and being pulled up a steep grade like a boat ramp. I would remind you that there was this thing called a cyclone that wasn't too shabby performance wise.

 

[local]

That's kind of his whole point. Tens of millions of people live in places subject to congestion and the reality of their driving experience is bumper to bumper stop and go. Hardly an experience worth romanticizing and one that will be very eagerly given up to autonomy when the time comes.

Yeah I know that is why I was giving my perspective. I enjoy driving to the point where it factored into where I live. I enjoy turning wrenches to repair or improve the performance I get out of my vehicles. For those reasons I will be one of the people fighting against anything that takes those things away from me. I know that puts me in the past, I would have loved the 50's and 60's, but I like it and will continue to do so until someone forces me to stop.

burnouts are cool!

Only if you are in the water box trying to heat up your tires before going down the track. Otherwise it is a waste of traction. Around here it is usually idiot rednecks in their trucks thinking they are bad ass because they can melt their tires, for a few hundred feet.

 

[thilanliyan]

It should if you're trying to tow something and especially if that something is heavy and being pulled up a steep grade like a boat ramp. I would remind you that there was this thing called a cyclone that wasn't too shabby performance wise.

"Pickup truck" and "boat"!! That's more like it...those words fit together better than "pickup truck" and "driving dynamics"

 

[tweaker2]

burnouts are cool!

Not only that, as you already know, it confirms that your engine tuning, driveline, steering and suspension tuning gives you a consistent straight line acceleration vector without having to make those hair raising steering adjustments......unless of course you actually want to scare yourself wide eyed silly doing doughnuts at an ice coated parking lot just for the, you know, thrills.

BTW, a former boss of mine of whom I worship to this very day tried that in order to try out one of those new fangled front wheel drive imports (yes, this was back in the day when Detroit cars were Kings of the road) and he ended up hanging the front of the car over the edge of the swimming pool at the hotel he was staying at.

For reference, he was a former WWII B29 bomber and heavy commercial aircraft pilot. He used to take us out island hopping in his seaplane of which he eventually sold after his wife reminded him that his deteriorating health was about to yank his ass out of the pilot's seat.

edit - In fact, he was one of the first guys that I knew of that attached big rig air horns to his fully dressed Harley D because car drivers kept cutting him off on the freeway. lol

 

[1sikbITCH]

who pays for this electricity? unless your car reports back how much juice it's sucking up and you get charged for it. but then that means if you loan your car to someone - you pay for the "fuel"

Pay? No pay. Mankind did away with currency back in the 21st century. Everything is free and nobody works and on Sundays we all sing Kumbaya while toasting the Savior, Bernie Sanders.



Actually as you know if the power grid is OTA then not only will your car and devices receive power, they will also transmit. So buying power will happen online just like everything else. Everything and everybody will be tracked and connected through the grid. Unless we blow up the planet beforehand, this is where shit is headed.

 

[R0H1T]

Pay? No pay. Mankind did away with currency back in the 21st century. Everything is free and nobody works and on Sundays we all sing Kumbaya while toasting the Savior, Bernie Sanders.



Actually as you know if the power grid is OTA then not only will your car and devices receive power, they will also transmit. So buying power will happen online just like everything else. Everything and everybody will be tracked and connected through the grid. Unless we blow up the planet beforehand, this is where shit is headed.

Do they insert hot metal rod in your brains for a lifetime of vacation in the Matrix, come 23rd century, as you pay for it by charging the electrical grid for your AI overlords?

 

[WelshBloke]

I have a 32 mile commute from BFE to almost the exact middle of Dallas/Ft. Worth. 15 miles of my daily commute is at 65 mph on a twisty two lane blacktop, the other 15 miles is going to be a wide open highway next year. Averages about 45 minutes each way and is the highlight of my day. Nothing beats windows down on an open road with the power of a V8 pushing you through the turns and the growl it lets out as you accelerate out of them. You are excited for the future of autonomous vehicles whereas I see them as the death of one of the best experiences I have every day.

I will grant you this though, if I lived in a traffic hell hole I may think differently. But that is part of the reason I live where I do.

Driving to work is one of the best experiences you have?