China state media slam Obama over currency remarks

[Nebor]

I think he's just confused. Likely still in college, if not HS. Otherwise it's a shame that he doesn't realize much. Not sure what else to think of him, except for willfully ignorant.

Eh, there are plenty of people on AT that say IP is worthless (Boberfett springs to mind.) It's a different kind of entitlement mentality, I think.

 

[Anarchist420]

Eh, there are plenty of people on AT that say IP is worthless (Boberfett springs to mind.) It's a different kind of entitlement mentality, I think.

No, IP is unethical so it's not an entitlement mentality. There are such things as simultaneous inventions.

The aboliition of IP would reduce market distortions. The free market is ethical, the state is not.

BFDD makes excellent points counterpoints IMO.

 

[ElFenix]

+1

Confused though, how would a devalued yuan (pegged to USD) decrease their competitiveness? Wouldn't their goods be even cheaper?

no, he said they have to maintain the peg or else they're fucked. of course, by maintaining the peg they're also slowly fucking themselves as their assets devalue, RMB inflation increases (8 have to be printed for each dollar printed), and internal consumption flags. and no one wants to get loans in RMB as they know when it comes off the peg they'll owe a ton more money.

basically, maintaining a peg is not without consequences. and it sure as hell isn't a free market.

BFDD makes excellent points counterpoints IMO.

and we all know what your opinion is worth.

 

[bfdd]

LK, owning the rights to means of production I wouldn't have a problem with. I think it would be right to grant exclusive production rights to someones patent or whatever, but to say they own the idea? LOL. You can't own the idea that is now in my head. Just like a record company can't charge me for replaying a song in my head. That's just retarded, no one really owns IP.

Also, I'm not a commie. I would never limit my views or myself to labels others have came up with. I do believe there are certain aspects of everything that are good and some that are bad. I'm quite a fan of the Three Principles of People, though not such a huge fan of a giant state entity.

 

[hal2kilo]

Yeah, well, China has its own spending problems to keep at bay: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/07/b...ns-countrys-economic-boom.html?pagewanted=all

Plus labor costs are going up 20 to 30 percent next year.

 

[Ausm]

Plus labor costs are going up 20 to 30 percent next year.

Which will help send jobs back here hopefully!

 

[hal2kilo]

I think he's just confused. Likely still in college, if not HS. Otherwise it's a shame that he doesn't realize much. Not sure what else to think of him, except for willfully ignorant.

If you look at his signature he a not anything. That makes him nothing but a fence sitting kibitzer.

 

[Zebo]

lol what the fuck? I post something and I side with China, now Republicans are coming around to China? Well one, I've never really been super hard on China and two I'm not a Republican. Also, yes I will read Chinese state ran media and use it as a piece to fit into the puzzle. You don't think we have been dealing shady with the Chinese? You don't think we say a bunch of bullshit propaganda? It goes both fucking ways and I see the Chinese actually making shit, actually trying to do things, while we bitch and moan about every little thing. Constant infighting and nothing ever getting done. You can talk shit on the Chinese all you want, but we've been the ones trying to keep a slave not them.

Also, I didn't post this because they "slam Obama" I posted it because it's prudent news to our relationship with China. You fucking small minded fools can't think for a moment that one person might not really give a flying fuck for your partisan non-sense? I am not registered with any major political party, I find the idea of groups and parties horrendous and believe they create a weaker human. Group think is more dangerous than ignorance.

They are kinda forced for a bowl of rice or live in the country in squalor. They keep nets around company compounds so Chinese workers can't jump to their death to end their miserable lot. These so called production facilities are like a prison. Nothing free about them.

Then they steal EVERYTHING. You can find knock off Leupold scopes to callaway golf clubs on ebay. I was a victim, they look almost identical, and there are plenty more we don't see like robots to make X, chemicals and everything else.

China might be "making shit" but it's all done by hook and crook and to great environmental and human destruction nothing free market about it.

 

[Karl Agathon]

Red China is a De-facto enemy of the United States.

 

[bfdd]

They are kinda forced for a bowl of rice or live in the country in squalor. They keep nets around company compounds so Chinese workers can't jump to their death to end their miserable lot. These so called production facilities are like a prison. Nothing free about them.

Then they steal EVERYTHING. You can find knock off Leupold scopes to callaway golf clubs on ebay. I was a victim, they look almost identical, and there are plenty more we don't see like robots to make X, chemicals and everything else.

China might be "making shit" but it's all done by hook and crook and to great environmental and human destruction nothing free market about it.

And Japanese people kill themselves in record numbers, their suicide rate is exponentially larger than that of China. Also understand that culturally they value life much differently than we do here in the USA. We also can't bitch about China doing what is in China's best interest, that's fucking silly. We can make changes ourselves, we can stop allowing shitty Chinese goods in, we can start competing and if that means taking less money on all levels then fucking ok by me. Don't buy shit from unverified sources, sounds like you made a fuck up and are blaming it on the whole of China.

It's quite the American way to point the finger at China instead of idiotic American consumers, businessmen and politicians.

 

[crashtestdummy]

+1

Confused though, how would a devalued yuan (pegged to USD) decrease their competitiveness? Wouldn't their goods be even cheaper?

I think he misspoke slightly. If China refuses to buy US debt, the dollar will inflate while the Yuan will no longer be pegged to the dollar and will appreciate. This will cause export costs to go way up, and companies will move their operations elsewhere, causing China's progress to flatten out, much like Japan over the past 15 years.

 

[LegendKiller]

LK, owning the rights to means of production I wouldn't have a problem with. I think it would be right to grant exclusive production rights to someones patent or whatever, but to say they own the idea? LOL. You can't own the idea that is now in my head. Just like a record company can't charge me for replaying a song in my head. That's just retarded, no one really owns IP.

Also, I'm not a commie. I would never limit my views or myself to labels others have came up with. I do believe there are certain aspects of everything that are good and some that are bad. I'm quite a fan of the Three Principles of People, though not such a huge fan of a giant state entity.

I met a guy like you once. He was a rabid downloader of everything. He loved to D/L music and movies because he said "ideas are free". That is, until his son showed a huge amount of musical talent, then he copyrighted the songs and is making a good amount of money from them. Your silly notions are quite communist and very naive, you need to grow up.

A kid like you thinks shit should be free, especially "ideas", yet you fail to realize that copyrights are capitalism. Ideas should be profited from if the market will pay for them, otherwise nobody would undertake them and we would not progress.

 

[LegendKiller]

And Japanese people kill themselves in record numbers, their suicide rate is exponentially larger than that of China. Also understand that culturally they value life much differently than we do here in the USA. We also can't bitch about China doing what is in China's best interest, that's fucking silly. We can make changes ourselves, we can stop allowing shitty Chinese goods in, we can start competing and if that means taking less money on all levels then fucking ok by me. Don't buy shit from unverified sources, sounds like you made a fuck up and are blaming it on the whole of China.

It's quite the American way to point the finger at China instead of idiotic American consumers, businessmen and politicians.

Whats humorous is you're all for China doing whatever they can do to fuck us over but not for us doing what we can to counter them.

 

[bfdd]

Whats humorous is you're all for China doing whatever they can do to fuck us over but not for us doing what we can to counter them.

We can counter them. I just said I'm for stopping the importation of crappy Chinese goods that don't meet our standards. I have no issues with things like this, but to blame these problems on the Chinese is wrong. They are our fault and our problems. China is trying to screw us just as much as we're trying to screw them or do you not think forcing China to buy US dollars with US dollars is how to do proper business? lols, China isn't screwing our currency we are.

China is used to often as a scapegoat for our own internal errors.

 

[LegendKiller]

We can counter them. I just said I'm for stopping the importation of crappy Chinese goods that don't meet our standards. I have no issues with things like this, but to blame these problems on the Chinese is wrong. They are our fault and our problems. China is trying to screw us just as much as we're trying to screw them or do you not think forcing China to buy US dollars with US dollars is how to do proper business? lols, China isn't screwing our currency we are.

China is used to often as a scapegoat for our own internal errors.

Did you even read what I wrote before?

It's simple. China sells $100 of shit to us and receives $100, that $100 in shit should actually cost $130, but due to a 30% depreciation in the Yuan, it's only $100, undercutting US manufacturers that can make it for $110. They turn around and buy $80 of stuff from us, paying $80 back. They have a $20 trade surplus.

Now China has to do something with that $20. They can sell the $20 and get $38 Euros, or they can buy $20 in jet parts from Russia. Let's say they buy Euros. That $20 then goes into the international currency market, adding to the currency market supply of USD, supply/demand says that since the demand stays the same and the supply increases, the price of the USD must go down.

Now, next, China sells $100 of shit to the US, but since the USD depreciated, US purchasers must pay $110 for it. Suddenly, the cost is = to the US producer cost. However, the US producer would need to restart production and hire people, thus, the true marginal cost for a US producer would be $115, thus, China is still cheaper. Since US goods are now cheaper, even though the yuan is more, the US surplus is the same, $20.

Now, there is $40 on the world market after China dumps it, that means their goods now cost US consumers $130 to buy, so US producers are now profitable and cut off the Chinese producers, Chinese producers lose money.

As China's currency raises against the dollar, naturally because of a trade surplus, their goods becomes less competitive.

Now, what really happens is that China takes their $20 and buys US treasuries, giving us back $20, but creating an IOU that effectively "sterilizes" the dollars, keeping them in China. The problem with that is that the USD doesn't drop while China uses their own money printing to depreciate the Yuan, keeping a peg in place. If China didn't keep the USDs there, they would lose competitiveness. Thus, they keep them there because THEY HAVE TO!!!!!!!!!!!

This keeps the trade surplus intact and doesn't allow the supply/demand of currency to happen. This cuts off US companies competitiveness.

Whats the end-lesson?


CHINA MUST BUY USTs TO KEEP THEIR CURRENCY MANIPULATION IN PLACE AND KEEP THEIR MANUFACTURERS ARTIFICIALLY COMPETITIVE VERSUS US MANUFACTURERS. THIS ROBS MILLIONS OF JOBS AND BILLIONS IN TAX COLLECTIONS. WE DONT FORCE THEM TO BUY USTs, THEY FORCE THEMSELVES TO BUY THEM TO FUCK US OVER.

International trade is a 0 sum game. If somebody is accumulating trade surpluses, another country must be accumulating deficits. If somebody is accumulating excess foreign currency reserves, somebody else must be accumulating debt to create those excess FCRs.

If one country is generating reserves that they sell to buy other assets, then the currency they are selling (the one they are running a surplus with) must depreciate, eventually making the exporter's goods to expensive to buy, generating domestic demand. The way to short-circuit this is to peg the currency low and buying financial assets. This warps the international trade market, allowing distortions to keep happening, all in the name of the exporter fucking over the importer.

 

[dank69]

bfdd, all you really need to know is A420 agrees with you. Just sayin.

 

[nixium]

Did you even read what I wrote before?

....

If one country is generating reserves that they sell to buy other assets, then the currency they are selling (the one they are running a surplus with) must depreciate, eventually making the exporter's goods to expensive to buy, generating domestic demand. The way to short-circuit this is to peg the currency low and buying financial assets. This warps the international trade market, allowing distortions to keep happening, all in the name of the exporter fucking over the importer.

So how can this be fixed? Tariffs on Chinese goods? Or just wait for them to implode?

 

[momeNt]

Did you even read what I wrote before?

It's simple. China sells $100 of shit to us and receives $100, that $100 in shit should actually cost $130, but due to a 30% depreciation in the Yuan, it's only $100, undercutting US manufacturers that can make it for $110. They turn around and buy $80 of stuff from us, paying $80 back. They have a $20 trade surplus.

Now China has to do something with that $20. They can sell the $20 and get $38 Euros, or they can buy $20 in jet parts from Russia. Let's say they buy Euros. That $20 then goes into the international currency market, adding to the currency market supply of USD, supply/demand says that since the demand stays the same and the supply increases, the price of the USD must go down.

Now, next, China sells $100 of shit to the US, but since the USD depreciated, US purchasers must pay $110 for it. Suddenly, the cost is = to the US producer cost. However, the US producer would need to restart production and hire people, thus, the true marginal cost for a US producer would be $115, thus, China is still cheaper. Since US goods are now cheaper, even though the yuan is more, the US surplus is the same, $20.

Now, there is $40 on the world market after China dumps it, that means their goods now cost US consumers $130 to buy, so US producers are now profitable and cut off the Chinese producers, Chinese producers lose money.

As China's currency raises against the dollar, naturally because of a trade surplus, their goods becomes less competitive.

Now, what really happens is that China takes their $20 and buys US treasuries, giving us back $20, but creating an IOU that effectively "sterilizes" the dollars, keeping them in China. The problem with that is that the USD doesn't drop while China uses their own money printing to depreciate the Yuan, keeping a peg in place. If China didn't keep the USDs there, they would lose competitiveness. Thus, they keep them there because THEY HAVE TO!!!!!!!!!!!

This keeps the trade surplus intact and doesn't allow the supply/demand of currency to happen. This cuts off US companies competitiveness.

Whats the end-lesson?


CHINA MUST BUY USTs TO KEEP THEIR CURRENCY MANIPULATION IN PLACE AND KEEP THEIR MANUFACTURERS ARTIFICIALLY COMPETITIVE VERSUS US MANUFACTURERS. THIS ROBS MILLIONS OF JOBS AND BILLIONS IN TAX COLLECTIONS. WE DONT FORCE THEM TO BUY USTs, THEY FORCE THEMSELVES TO BUY THEM TO FUCK US OVER.

International trade is a 0 sum game. If somebody is accumulating trade surpluses, another country must be accumulating deficits. If somebody is accumulating excess foreign currency reserves, somebody else must be accumulating debt to create those excess FCRs.

If one country is generating reserves that they sell to buy other assets, then the currency they are selling (the one they are running a surplus with) must depreciate, eventually making the exporter's goods to expensive to buy, generating domestic demand. The way to short-circuit this is to peg the currency low and buying financial assets. This warps the international trade market, allowing distortions to keep happening, all in the name of the exporter fucking over the importer.

You know what the hilarious part of this all is? The current international trade system of irredeemable currencies that can be printed, pegged, manipulated, was CREATED by the USA!

 

[Spikesoldier]

we truly are at the end of times. see: the fall of roman empire began when they started to dilute the purity of gold in their coinage. (i.e. printing money, QE 1,2,3)

 

[Dari]

So how can this be fixed? Tariffs on Chinese goods? Or just wait for them to implode?

Tariffs or trade war. But the problem with that is that a lot of the companies that benefit from this are American, in addition to other multinationals that make stuff in China and export it here. If this was strictly American companies against China the politicians would've acted a long time ago.

 

[momeNt]

Tariffs or trade war. But the problem with that is that a lot of the companies that benefit from this are American, in addition to other multinationals that make stuff in China and export it here. If this was strictly American companies against China the politicians would've acted a long time ago.

You know the only people who don't benefit from the China/USA currency situation are the Chinese people and the unemployed in America. The ones that benefit is every other American that gets to buy cheap Chinese goods.

Heck even the unemployed probably would prefer to stay unemployed than to have a minimum wage job of putting iphones together and getting repetitive motion injuries.

 

[Atreus21]

So how can this be fixed? Tariffs on Chinese goods? Or just wait for them to implode?

I think Bernanke's plan was to inflation them to death IIRC.

 

[momeNt]

I met a guy like you once. He was a rabid downloader of everything. He loved to D/L music and movies because he said "ideas are free". That is, until his son showed a huge amount of musical talent, then he copyrighted the songs and is making a good amount of money from them. Your silly notions are quite communist and very naive, you need to grow up.

A kid like you thinks shit should be free, especially "ideas", yet you fail to realize that copyrights are capitalism. Ideas should be profited from if the market will pay for them, otherwise nobody would undertake them and we would not progress.

There is a distinct difference between a patent and a copyright.

People who download and steal copyrighted material are stealing even according to the father of anarcho-capitalism Murray Rothbard himself. A copyright is definitely an enforceable free market contract because the the contract can stipulate that you agree upon the sale of the item to not distribute it. So it's something that's enforceable in the free market.

Intellectual Property is completely different. Try considering it within the context of homesteading and see how it works for you, you can stake a claim to a piece of land, build a fence, and not allow anybody else the use of that piece of land for their sustenance, that's a homesteading property right. Now take an idea, build a fence around it, and not allow anybody to be educated by that idea, how did you manage to do that? Well the only way possible is by keeping your mouth shut and not sharing that idea with anybody. To then go ask the government to protect that idea and not allow anybody else the use of that idea, regardless of whether or not their idea was created simultaneously without knowledge of your idea, is not enforceable by a free market, it requires government to enforce a monopoly right on the patent holder to be the sole person to profit from that idea.

So you are conflating the argument against IP with copyrights. Music is not an idea, it was distributed under a contract that the purchaser was not to redistribute it themselves. If two people wrote the same 17 syllable haiku at the same time? Both could have a copyright to it, but government would allow only one patent.

 

[momeNt]

I think Bernanke's plan was to inflation them to death IIRC.

Trade deficits are just kind of whatever, the money is printed, and parked back into UST, so China doesn't have to feel any inflation by pegging to USD. QE on the other hand, is money printed and given to banks to spread throughout the economy, China definitely has to print to match that devaluation, and that has caused inflation spikes in China, which is why China has had to loosen that peg because their cheap labor can't even afford a dumpling when the inflation hits.

 

[jman19]

btw bitching about stealing ip and jobs? IP is bullshit anyways, owning an idea? please that's some fucking bullshit and we all know it. now you bitch about stealing jobs? more like we LET THEM TAKE THEM, big fucking difference. we said "here have these jobs" and they were more than welcome to oblige. Waah, blame China for these problems instead of taking responsibility.

Talk about ignorant... holy crap.