China ready to use "non-peaceful means" against DEMOCRACY in Taiwan - Why did China get the Olympic Games again?

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
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I hate Chinese Government and I hope all of their leaders and all of the familes of the leaders die the WORST possible deaths imaginable.

China Steps Up Demands on Taiwan's Chen

Wednesday May 19, 2004 9:46 AM


AP Photo TPE102

By AUDRA ANG

Associated Press Writer

BEIJING (AP) - China called on Taiwan's president to renounce possible plans for independence on the eve of his inauguration to a new term, warning that it isn't afraid to attack the island even if that means sacrificing good relations with Washington.

China ``will never tolerate Taiwan independence,'' the Communist Party newspaper People's Daily and other state media said in a series of bellicose commentaries Wednesday.

They warned that Beijing is ready to use ``non-peaceful means'' to keep President Chen Shui-bian from trying to make the self-ruled island's de facto independence permanent.

Chen is due to be sworn-in for a second four-year term in Taipei on Thursday.

China wants ``Chen to soften (his) radical separatist stance in his inauguration speech,'' the newspaper China Daily said. Beijing views that speech as a blueprint for Chen's second four-year term.

China accuses Chen of plotting independence, though his conflicting statements have left his true intentions a mystery.

China and Taiwan split in 1949, but Beijing claims the island as part of its territory and has threatened to attack if it declares independence or delays talks on unification. China's military has hundreds of missiles pointed at the island and has been building up its naval capacity to give weight to its threats.

Chinese media rejected suggestions that Beijing might be restrained by fears of economic or diplomatic damage.

Beijing will accept ``a slowdown in its modernization bid, a reversion in Sino-U.S. ties and the boycott of the Olympic Games'' in Beijing in 2008, the China Daily quoted Xu Bodong, director of the Institute of Taiwan Studies at Beijing United University, as saying.

Beijing often uses such official experts as spokespeople for policies on Taiwan and other controversial issues, possibly hoping their academic credentials add force to its position.

Also Wednesday, state television led its midday newscast with a statement by China's Foreign Ministry protesting U.S. plans to send a delegation to attend Chen's inauguration, warning that it would be giving ``the wrong signals to the Taiwan authorities.''

Beijing has accused Chen of pushing relations to ``the brink of danger'' by supporting revisions to Taiwan's constitution and a companion referendum during the presidential election in March on whether the island should step up defenses against China.

The referendum failed when too few voters took part, but Beijing opposed it as a possible rehearsal for a public vote on independence.

In a toughly worded statement Monday, the mainland vowed to ``firmly and thoroughly'' crush any moves toward independence while urging Chen to resume long-stalled talks on unification.

The statement called for the first time for ``mutual trust in the military field,'' but did not elaborate.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4107348,00.html
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
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if the current admin in china does nothing against taiwan then allowing china to hold the olyimpics would help the future generations to connect with the rest of the world and therefor help seed a more goodwill in future relations
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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Why is Tiawan so important to the Chinese that they'd be willing to throw a wrench into their future a an Economic World Power? They'd have to annihlate the Island of Tiawan to take it over thus rendering it worthless economically!
 

geecee

Platinum Member
Jan 14, 2003
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It seems, strangely enough :p, that neither Taiwan nor China have anything further to gain from this conflict. The Chinese gov't just continues to promote a hard line, decades-old stance that Taiwan is part of China, and Taiwanese rabblerousers like to wave the flag of independence under the mainland's nose just to irritate it. China, in threatening Taiwan with military force, hampers its efforts to be seen as an emerging world power. (You'd think that they would've learned a lesson or two from Tiananmen.) Taiwan, on the other hand, other than diplomatic recognition, has little to gain from declaring independence, as it is already one of SE Asia's economic powers. It also remains to be seen whether or not in a conflict of this scale, it REALLY has the support (i.e. military) of the United States.

This is an issue that is close to the hearts of many Chinese/Taiwanese/Chinese-Americans/Taiwanese-Americans. Maybe that's the problem. It's a conflict of hearts and ideologies and common sense is lacking on both sides, as usual. A unified China/Taiwan would be a nation to be reckoned with, but instead the Chinese(Taiwanese) will eventually end up doing what they have done best over the centuries - kill each other. Yes, I am cynical. :frown:
 

lozina

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
11,707
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Looks like China is going all in without even a single pair in it's hand.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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Time to bring up a different perspective.

China considers Taiwan part of itself. Taiwan does not.

The whole conflict is about sovereignty. If a democratic nation had a part of itself want to break away, would it let that happen? Ask Lincoln's ghost. No, it would not happen.

Doesn't make it right, but everyone throws around Democracy like it's the beginning and end of everything. It's looking a lot like religion.

China does not want Taiwan leaving because they think Taiwan is part of China.
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,198
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Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Time to bring up a different perspective.

China considers Taiwan part of itself. Taiwan does not.

The whole conflict is about sovereignty. If a democratic nation had a part of itself want to break away, would it let that happen? Ask Lincoln's ghost. No, it would not happen.

Doesn't make it right, but everything throws around Democracy like it's the beginning and end of everything. It's looking a lot like religion.

China does not want Taiwan leaving because they think Taiwan is part of China.

Actually, Taiwan is over 60% Han Chinese. Taiwan also said they would join China under certain circumstances. If you snoop around the BBC you should be able to find a decent amount of information on the subject.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Time to bring up a different perspective.

China considers Taiwan part of itself. Taiwan does not.

The whole conflict is about sovereignty. If a democratic nation had a part of itself want to break away, would it let that happen? Ask Lincoln's ghost. No, it would not happen.

Doesn't make it right, but everything throws around Democracy like it's the beginning and end of everything. It's looking a lot like religion.

China does not want Taiwan leaving because they think Taiwan is part of China.

Actually, Taiwan is over 60% Han Chinese. Taiwan also said they would join China under certain circumstances. If you snoop around the BBC you should be able to find a decent amount of information on the subject.

I am sure that if China were a democracy, Taiwan would be far more inclined to join the mainland. It is China who threatens war though, and it is from their perspective as I understand that I post. That does not mean I agree with it, but it is an explanation of motives.
 

EagleKeeper

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Oct 30, 2000
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China is not that concerned about world opinion.

They have demonstrated that on more than one occasion.
They have the arrogance that they are strongh enough that it does not matter. Favorable attitudes of the world will speed up the timeline, however, they have last for many thousand of years (outlasted their opponents) What is a few more years to wait if their internal needs are satisfied.


The world will not impose serious trade santions on them, it will cripple the world economies to much.
 

ElFenix

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Mar 20, 2000
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maybe if they do we can impose trade sanctions on them and stop the flow of oil and bring down the price at the pump
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Why is Tiawan so important to the Chinese that they'd be willing to throw a wrench into their future a an Economic World Power? They'd have to annihlate the Island of Tiawan to take it over thus rendering it worthless economically!

For the same reason Canada did not let Quebec separate and for the same reason the US got into its civil war. You can make up for a few years of lost economic growth easily, at least compared to getting back a lost territory.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
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Originally posted by: ElFenix
maybe if they do we can impose trade sanctions on them and stop the flow of oil and bring down the price at the pump

Nah...we're just going to impose tariffs on their steel but let them send super-cheap cars into the country.

But, maybe they'll shoot down another of our reconnaissance planes and Bush can go romping for rice instead of sand.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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Originally posted by: ElFenix
maybe if they do we can impose trade sanctions on them and stop the flow of oil and bring down the price at the pump

Perhaps, but they might destroy WalMart, and completely wreck the US economy in the process.
 

ElFenix

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Mar 20, 2000
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Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Originally posted by: ElFenix
maybe if they do we can impose trade sanctions on them and stop the flow of oil and bring down the price at the pump

Perhaps, but they might destroy WalMart, and completely wreck the US economy in the process.

i wouldn't mind losing wally world.
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
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Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Originally posted by: ElFenix
maybe if they do we can impose trade sanctions on them and stop the flow of oil and bring down the price at the pump

Perhaps, but they might destroy WalMart, and completely wreck the US economy in the process.

i wouldn't mind losing wally world.

Neither would I, but Bush's core voters would ;)
 

cchen

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
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Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Why is Tiawan so important to the Chinese that they'd be willing to throw a wrench into their future a an Economic World Power? They'd have to annihlate the Island of Tiawan to take it over thus rendering it worthless economically!

For the same reason Canada did not let Quebec separate and for the same reason the US got into its civil war. You can make up for a few years of lost economic growth easily, at least compared to getting back a lost territory.

Taiwan is not a territory of China. It has never been and never will. Even if you believe that Taiwan is a part of China, what kind of "mother country" points 10,000 missiles at it to deter it from seceding? I'm sure Canada did not do that, and the US would never do that.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
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One of the worst aspects of the Iraq war is that it is diverting strength and attention away from larger problems. China is a larger problem. They seem to be going in the right direction and could slowly move towards democracy, but until that happens we need to keep an eye on them and make sure we can take them on militarily.

I agree that they should not have gotten the Olympics. Only democratic countries should get it.
 

EagleKeeper

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Originally posted by: cchen
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Why is Tiawan so important to the Chinese that they'd be willing to throw a wrench into their future a an Economic World Power? They'd have to annihlate the Island of Tiawan to take it over thus rendering it worthless economically!

For the same reason Canada did not let Quebec separate and for the same reason the US got into its civil war. You can make up for a few years of lost economic growth easily, at least compared to getting back a lost territory.

Taiwan is not a territory of China. It has never been and never will. Even if you believe that Taiwan is a part of China, what kind of "mother country" points 10,000 missiles at it to deter it from seceding? I'm sure Canada did not do that, and the US would never do that.

Did the US (North) invade the (South) to protect the sovernity of the union. That is no different than what mainland China see.

Taiwan was part of China until the end of WWII. Then it set up a seperate political government (in exile).
"Red" China at the time was to weak and trying to recover from the destruction caused by Japan to stop the opposition.

IT is a rebel territory and the olny reason why it is tolerated is due to the political balance.

Had roles been reversed, the US would not blink if the island was brought back into the fold.
 

cchen

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
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Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Did the US (North) invade the (South) to protect the sovernity of the union. That is no different than what mainland China see.

Taiwan was part of China until the end of WWII. Then it set up a seperate political government (in exile).
"Red" China at the time was to weak and trying to recover from the destruction caused by Japan to stop the opposition.

IT is a rebel territory and the olny reason why it is tolerated is due to the political balance.

Had roles been reversed, the US would not blink if the island was brought back into the fold.

Of couse it is quite different. The Civil War was well over 100 years ago. Today, something like that would never happen. If say, Maryland wanted to leave the US, would the US invade? Point missiles? I think not.
 

cchen

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
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Originally posted by: Infohawk
One of the worst aspects of the Iraq war is that it is diverting strength and attention away from larger problems. China is a larger problem. They seem to be going in the right direction and could slowly move towards democracy, but until that happens we need to keep an eye on them and make sure we can take them on militarily.

I agree that they should not have gotten the Olympics. Only democratic countries should get it.

True. I had a thought in the back of mind that China might just go ahead and attack Taiwan while the US was preoccupied with Afghanistan and Iraq, though it is doubtful because of the upcoming Olympics...
 

EagleKeeper

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Oct 30, 2000
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Originally posted by: cchen
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Did the US (North) invade the (South) to protect the sovernity of the union. That is no different than what mainland China see.

Taiwan was part of China until the end of WWII. Then it set up a seperate political government (in exile).
"Red" China at the time was to weak and trying to recover from the destruction caused by Japan to stop the opposition.

IT is a rebel territory and the olny reason why it is tolerated is due to the political balance.

Had roles been reversed, the US would not blink if the island was brought back into the fold.

Of couse it is quite different. The Civil War was well over 100 years ago. Today, something like that would never happen. If say, Maryland wanted to leave the US, would the US invade? Point missiles? I think not.

Why is it different. Tawain is a breakaway state that chose to setup a differnet political system than the rest of the country.

It is only because of the US might over the past 60 years, that China has not taken them by force.

The US policy has been flawed in having a two China policy which has encouraged Tawain attitudes and confused China preception of the US intentions.
 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
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Originally posted by: cchen
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Did the US (North) invade the (South) to protect the sovernity of the union. That is no different than what mainland China see.

Taiwan was part of China until the end of WWII. Then it set up a seperate political government (in exile).
"Red" China at the time was to weak and trying to recover from the destruction caused by Japan to stop the opposition.

IT is a rebel territory and the olny reason why it is tolerated is due to the political balance.

Had roles been reversed, the US would not blink if the island was brought back into the fold.

Of couse it is quite different. The Civil War was well over 100 years ago. Today, something like that would never happen. If say, Maryland wanted to leave the US, would the US invade? Point missiles? I think not.

The US would not allow Maryland to leave.
 

cchen

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
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Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: cchen
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Did the US (North) invade the (South) to protect the sovernity of the union. That is no different than what mainland China see.

Taiwan was part of China until the end of WWII. Then it set up a seperate political government (in exile).
"Red" China at the time was to weak and trying to recover from the destruction caused by Japan to stop the opposition.

IT is a rebel territory and the olny reason why it is tolerated is due to the political balance.

Had roles been reversed, the US would not blink if the island was brought back into the fold.

Of couse it is quite different. The Civil War was well over 100 years ago. Today, something like that would never happen. If say, Maryland wanted to leave the US, would the US invade? Point missiles? I think not.

The US would not allow Maryland to leave.

Yes, but they wouldn't demolish it like China threatens to.
 

cchen

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
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Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Why is it different. Tawain is a breakaway state that chose to setup a differnet political system than the rest of the country.

It is only because of the US might over the past 60 years, that China has not taken them by force.

The US policy has been flawed in having a two China policy which has encouraged Tawain attitudes and confused China preception of the US intentions.

So you feel that Taiwan is part of China??