China has deployed missiles giving it second-strike capability against U.S.

[Trianon]

The U.S. intelligence community has determined that Beijing has developed and deployed a series of missiles that would give China second-strike nuclear capability in any confrontation with the United States. The determination of a sea-based deterrent is said to have significantly increased Beijing's threat to the United States.

"It is clear to me that China is now embarking on a significant investment in a second-strike capability to ensure the survival and, thus, viability of its nuclear forces," said Richard Fisher, a researcher at the International Assessment and Strategy Center and a leading U.S. expert on China.

Hmmm, we are getting more and more economically dependent on these guys, while they build up their capabilities to negate US trump cards.

 

[jlbenedict]

This has been in the process for years. While Americans & most rednecks rejoice over purchasing low price products from Walmarts, little do they realize 99% of those products are manufactured in China. With import products on the rise, it was bound to happen. Economically, China is catching up with the U.S. and from what I've understood, their defense spending is second in the world, only with the U.S. on top. Eventually, the more defense spending that China enjoys, the more capable their military and conflict defense will become.

I honestly believe in the future we will encounter something similiar with what the Cold War was about.. Cold War 2 perhaps.. or worse

 

[catnap1972]

So that's how they're going to force Smiley Mart to accept unions in their China operations.

Hmmm--interesting...

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: jlbenedict
This has been in the process for years. While Americans & most rednecks rejoice over purchasing low price products from Walmarts, little do they realize 99% of those products are manufactured in China. With import products on the rise, it was bound to happen. Economically, China is catching up with the U.S. and from what I've understood, their defense spending is second in the world, only with the U.S. on top. Eventually, the more defense spending that China enjoys, the more capable their military and conflict defense will become.

I honestly believe in the future we will encounter something similiar with what the Cold War was about.. Cold War 2 perhaps.. or worse

Correct! Most of these people don't realize they are financing China's economic and military ascension. But China's rapid economic growth is going to slow down pretty soon, it's being developed on the backs of what amounts to basically slave labor and I don't think the Chinese people are going to put up with that for much longer. Additionally if there is an escalation of hostilities between us and them we won't be importing their products and their economy will collapse. That's not to say we wouldn't feel it over here as well but for them it's much worse. Of course China could just say that we need to pay them all the money we owe them, now! Which would cause a severe recession/depression in the US economy.

It's all very complicated but we also have sworn to defend Taiwan if China tries to invade militarily, one day that's going to come to a head.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Don't you people realize the great threats to America:

1) Cuba . . . "the birds, the birds," John Bolton.

2) Venezeula . . . we can tolerate friendly tyrants with oil wealth . . . but not unfriendly ones.

3) Damn Mekicans crossing the border

4) Gays and Lesbians . . . particularly if they want to get married, raise kids, or move into the neighborhood

5) Flag burning

6) Steroids

7) Excess taxation of the wealthy . . . dead or alive.

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: ayabe


Correct! Most of these people don't realize they are financing China's economic and military ascension. But China's rapid economic growth is going to slow down pretty soon, it's being developed on the backs of what amounts to basically slave labor and I don't think the Chinese people are going to put up with that for much longer.

See my above comment. They've been wrangling with Wal-Mart over it this week (I don't remember if it was regarding the factories or the store operations in China)

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Don't you people realize the great threats to America:

1) Cuba . . . "the birds, the birds," John Bolton.

2) Venezeula . . . we can tolerate friendly tyrants with oil wealth . . . but not unfriendly ones.

3) Damn Mekicans crossing the border

4) Gays and Lesbians . . . particularly if they want to get married, raise kids, or move into the neighborhood

5) Flag burning

6) Steroids

7) Excess taxation of the wealthy . . . dead or alive.

Hey, you forgot the most important one:

8) LIBERALS! (ie anyone who disagrees with anything this administration does)

 

[International Machine Consortium]

The people that should read this are too busy buying Chinese products at Wal-Mart to do so. Meanwhile, Bush has destroyed much of the economic, military, social, and cultural fabric of the U.S. for us to do anything except wring our hands in response.

 

[ayabe]

Not to mention that the Chinese government is secular and that alone gives them one leg up on us, since they aren't hamstrung by absurd myths from yesteryear.

 

[The Green Bean]

The downlfall of American imperialism has already started with the failure to implement a viable "democracy" in Iraq. We will perhaps see a huge change in the power balance within our lifetimes. China is on the rise.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: jlbenedict
This has been in the process for years. While Americans & most rednecks rejoice over purchasing low price products from Walmarts, little do they realize 99% of those products are manufactured in China. With import products on the rise, it was bound to happen. Economically, China is catching up with the U.S. and from what I've understood, their defense spending is second in the world, only with the U.S. on top. Eventually, the more defense spending that China enjoys, the more capable their military and conflict defense will become.

I honestly believe in the future we will encounter something similiar with what the Cold War was about.. Cold War 2 perhaps.. or worse

Correct! Most of these people don't realize they are financing China's economic and military ascension. But China's rapid economic growth is going to slow down pretty soon, it's being developed on the backs of what amounts to basically slave labor and I don't think the Chinese people are going to put up with that for much longer. Additionally if there is an escalation of hostilities between us and them we won't be importing their products and their economy will collapse. That's not to say we wouldn't feel it over here as well but for them it's much worse. Of course China could just say that we need to pay them all the money we owe them, now! Which would cause a severe recession/depression in the US economy.

It's all very complicated but we also have sworn to defend Taiwan if China tries to invade militarily, one day that's going to come to a head.

Nope, it looks like both sides of the strait want to keep the powder dry . . . and the money flowing.

Until now, the Chinese policy was about preventing independence and planning for the day when Taiwan would be absorbed back into China. Reunification was the stated goal. But in a subtle shift, China?s new leader, Hu Jintao, has changed the rules.

?Hu has decided effectively that the unification is not achievable on his watch,? says Lieberthal. ?So he has effectively changed Beijing?s policy so that now the policy is on one hand, to deter independence but then on the other hand to promote dynamic status quo.?

That means more relaxed relations with Taiwan, already the biggest single investor in China?s booming economy.

?This puts mainland Chinese policy largely in line with the expressed view so the majority of people in Taiwan who are asked what they want for the future, answer the status quo,? Lieberthal adds. ?So I think this actually has had the effect for stabilizing cross strait relations.?

CBS
The next Taiwan election looks to favor the Presidential candidate that is roughly in-line with Hu.

 

[Rainsford]

China is probably the biggest threat to the US and the rest of the world in this century...and nobody seems to notice. Nobody is suggesting we have to give up on the idea of imported goods, but we need to be smart about this...we need to be giving India more business. What will ultimately keep China in check is a local power vying for regional control. Japan is also in an excellent position to do this, those two countries could help prevent China from turning into a new USSR. Not in a direct confrontation of course, but the way super powers are formed is by exerting control over other parts of the world, starting with your region. If China has two countries in their backyard that are trying to keep their influence to a minimum, expanding like that will be impossible without full scale war...something I don't think they'd be willing to risk.

But even if the worst happens, I wouldn't be too worried. For some reason people have this idea that because China is on the seller side of our trade deficit, they have the upper hand. But that's not really true at all...they pretty much have to sell to us given the current economic situation in the world, while we can buy from a number of other countries. We may take a little hit to the pocketbook to do so, but we'd cripple their economy. Unlike the USSR, China could not survive if the US decided to boycott their products.

 

[jlbenedict]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
China is probably the biggest threat to the US and the rest of the world in this century...and nobody seems to notice. Nobody is suggesting we have to give up on the idea of imported goods, but we need to be smart about this...we need to be giving India more business. What will ultimately keep China in check is a local power vying for regional control. Japan is also in an excellent position to do this, those two countries could help prevent China from turning into a new USSR. Not in a direct confrontation of course, but the way super powers are formed is by exerting control over other parts of the world, starting with your region. If China has two countries in their backyard that are trying to keep their influence to a minimum, expanding like that will be impossible without full scale war...something I don't think they'd be willing to risk.

But even if the worst happens, I wouldn't be too worried. For some reason people have this idea that because China is on the seller side of our trade deficit, they have the upper hand. But that's not really true at all...they pretty much have to sell to us given the current economic situation in the world, while we can buy from a number of other countries. We may take a little hit to the pocketbook to do so, but we'd cripple their economy. Unlike the USSR, China could not survive if the US decided to boycott their products.

Good post..
So, in reality it could be a good thing that Intel and Microsoft invest so heavily in India, with new fabs, and software development, etc..

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

^^ not if INTC and MSFT do that so they can avoid paying the prevailing wage in the US.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: jlbenedict

Originally posted by: Rainsford
China is probably the biggest threat to the US and the rest of the world in this century...and nobody seems to notice. Nobody is suggesting we have to give up on the idea of imported goods, but we need to be smart about this...we need to be giving India more business. What will ultimately keep China in check is a local power vying for regional control. Japan is also in an excellent position to do this, those two countries could help prevent China from turning into a new USSR. Not in a direct confrontation of course, but the way super powers are formed is by exerting control over other parts of the world, starting with your region. If China has two countries in their backyard that are trying to keep their influence to a minimum, expanding like that will be impossible without full scale war...something I don't think they'd be willing to risk.

But even if the worst happens, I wouldn't be too worried. For some reason people have this idea that because China is on the seller side of our trade deficit, they have the upper hand. But that's not really true at all...they pretty much have to sell to us given the current economic situation in the world, while we can buy from a number of other countries. We may take a little hit to the pocketbook to do so, but we'd cripple their economy. Unlike the USSR, China could not survive if the US decided to boycott their products.

Good post..
So, in reality it could be a good thing that Intel and Microsoft invest so heavily in India, with new fabs, and software development, etc..

Obviously the best would be for the investments to be here, but the economics don't always support that...and India is a good second choice. While they certainly have their regional conflicts, for the moment they seem content to build up their country into an economic power. I can see India becoming a powerful, but friendly ally...and I don't see that for China at all. And lest we forget, India is a democracy, China is not, and I think we'd like to encourage democratic countries whenever possible.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
^^ not if INTC and MSFT do that so they can avoid paying the prevailing wage in the US.

I agree, it has downsides...and I really think this whole "cheap labor" strategy has tradeoffs that will become more obvious as time goes on. But all else being equal, I'd rather see them in India than China. One of the saddest moments in the computer business was IBM turning total control of their laptops over to a Chinese company.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
^^ not if INTC and MSFT do that so they can avoid paying the prevailing wage in the US.

I agree, it has downsides...and I really think this whole "cheap labor" strategy has tradeoffs that will become more obvious as time goes on. But all else being equal, I'd rather see them in India than China. One of the saddest moments in the computer business was IBM turning total control of their laptops over to a Chinese company.

It's a global economy, Man. Money talks . . . and China has a lot . . . from us.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
The downlfall of American imperialism has already started with the failure to implement a viable "democracy" in Iraq. We will perhaps see a huge change in the power balance within our lifetimes. China is on the rise.

Before you shout and jump in the street waving your ak47, you might want to remember how kind communism has been to the moslim world.

 

[Aimster]

They need us as much as we need them.

 

[Trianon]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
But even if the worst happens, I wouldn't be too worried. For some reason people have this idea that because China is on the seller side of our trade deficit, they have the upper hand.

I don't agree. If they call in all our debt, before, during or after some policy disagreement, we have to pay or they will shortsell accumulated currency and cause economic collapse of the US. The only thing to prevent that would be to threaten them with military might, and their military buildup cancels that opportunity.

 

[Talcite]

if ANY country had their debt called in, they'd probably collapse economically. It has nothing to do with military might. You owe them money, so pay up.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
^^ not if INTC and MSFT do that so they can avoid paying the prevailing wage in the US.

I agree, it has downsides...and I really think this whole "cheap labor" strategy has tradeoffs that will become more obvious as time goes on. But all else being equal, I'd rather see them in India than China. One of the saddest moments in the computer business was IBM turning total control of their laptops over to a Chinese company.

It's a global economy, Man. Money talks . . . and China has a lot . . . from us.

yeah, protectionism!

 

[imported_Tango]

This is not news. China will be the next world hegemon, and everybody knew it since the '90s. Nobody is doing anything, because nothing can be done about that. Great powers rise and fall, it's history.
I don't think China is a military threat to the US anyway, just like the US are not a military threat to the last world hegemon, the UK.

 

[feelingshorter]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: jlbenedict

Originally posted by: Rainsford
China is probably the biggest threat to the US and the rest of the world in this century...and nobody seems to notice. Nobody is suggesting we have to give up on the idea of imported goods, but we need to be smart about this...we need to be giving India more business. What will ultimately keep China in check is a local power vying for regional control. Japan is also in an excellent position to do this, those two countries could help prevent China from turning into a new USSR. Not in a direct confrontation of course, but the way super powers are formed is by exerting control over other parts of the world, starting with your region. If China has two countries in their backyard that are trying to keep their influence to a minimum, expanding like that will be impossible without full scale war...something I don't think they'd be willing to risk.

But even if the worst happens, I wouldn't be too worried. For some reason people have this idea that because China is on the seller side of our trade deficit, they have the upper hand. But that's not really true at all...they pretty much have to sell to us given the current economic situation in the world, while we can buy from a number of other countries. We may take a little hit to the pocketbook to do so, but we'd cripple their economy. Unlike the USSR, China could not survive if the US decided to boycott their products.

Good post..
So, in reality it could be a good thing that Intel and Microsoft invest so heavily in India, with new fabs, and software development, etc..

Obviously the best would be for the investments to be here, but the economics don't always support that...and India is a good second choice. While they certainly have their regional conflicts, for the moment they seem content to build up their country into an economic power. I can see India becoming a powerful, but friendly ally...and I don't see that for China at all. And lest we forget, India is a democracy, China is not, and I think we'd like to encourage democratic countries whenever possible.

Such an old argument!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I love the study of economics. There are sites out there dedicated to these "USA vs. China" economy crap. We are on the winning side. China will be a super power regardless if we buy stuff from them or not. Long point short, we spend about 2% of our GDP to get the life style that we get. Lets say all our products were 2x as expensive, then what? Our economy will also be weaker and our military will follow since basic supplies in Walmart will cost more.

China needed something to rally it's people to stop Westerners from f*cking with them. Lets go back to the first time white people stepped foot in China and in the rest of Asia. What happened? Wars? Deaths? For those who dont know history, the British went to war with China so they can continue selling opium to the addicted population. I believe it was a huge % of the population being addicted to opium. China, kinda like the Viets, used communism to rally the people and get the foreigners out. Neither China nor Vietnam were pawns of Russia. As education becomes more widely spread, i highly doubt China will be a new USSR. They are trying to protect their interest in a cut throat world. This could turn into a long debate about China & Western nations but the History Channel has done a really good job at it. Tells all the wrong that westerners did to China.

Welcome to the real world where you can?t be level 99 and everyone else will be weaker than you at level 50 so you can do what ever you want. Learn the history of China and the economics of it. Also learn about how China's growth rate in proportion to their standard of living is much higher (which is a bad thing for them, good for us).

 

[IrateLeaf]

all of this is old news....must have been a slow news day in P&N!!!