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China cuts power, water to elderly Christians

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Lifer
Friday, March 1, 2002

BEIJING, March 1 (Reuters) - China cut off power and water on Friday to a group of elderly Christians, detained during U.S. President George W. Bush's recent visit, in an attempt to evict them from an old people's home, its manager said on Friday.

Chen Zhongxin, 63, manager of the home where police picked up 47 Christians when they gathered to pray last week, said local officials had dispatched workers to shut off electricity and water at the home in northern Beijing's Changping district.

Nine elderly Christians, the oldest 98, and two children, one blind and one retarded, live at the makeshift brick facility on the outskirts of the capital, he said.

"Everybody here knows we are just a group of old Christians. We want nothing from society but an explanation why this happened to us," Chen said.

Communist China bans religious activity outside state-backed organisations, but millions of devout Christians pray in underground churches and informal prayer groups.

Police raided the home on February 21, the first day of Bush's visit to Beijing, where the American president called on China to allow its people freedom of worship.

They released the detainees soon after the American president left China, the Hong Kong-based Information Centre for Human Rights and Democracy said.

Chen said at the time of their release, police threatened to fine him 50,000 yuan ($6,000) if he did not "shut down or move the home out of the town within two days."

Local police and government officials declined comment.
 
We live in the United States, what they are doing might seem wrong to us, but to them it might be perfectly acceptable. The world is huge, sometimes we Americans get so caught up with our ego of superiority we forget that. We have no sovereignty over the actions of China, it's really none of our business. All I'm saying is that we do some pretty shady things too...
 


<< We live in the United States, what they are doing might seem wrong to us, but to them it might be perfectly acceptable. The world is huge, sometimes we Americans get so caught up with our ego of superiority we forget that. We have no sovereignty over the actions of China, it's really none of our business. All I'm saying is that we do some pretty shady things too... >>


While that may be true, given China's current state of affairs, it would seem that cutting the water and power to elderly Christians is a bit off the mark on the "Thiings to do to make your country better" list. I remember reading not to far back about how they did kill some Christians, unfortunately, I do not have the link.
Isn't China trying to get an Olympic bid? I thought I remember that from a while back...
 
I think things really are improving in China. In the past the would have just rolled in and killed everyone.
 
Isn't China trying to get an Olympic bid? I thought I remember that from a while back...

i'm pretty sure they got it
 


<< I think things really are improving in China. In the past the would have just rolled in and killed everyone. >>


yeah, at least now they are opting for a more humane slow death.
 
the article is misleading at best btw, china has always had a policy against religion, and they're just closing the church down. it's a live-in church type thing, not just an old people's home.
 
ROFL.
Because 9 old farts, a retarded kid and a blind kid are definitely going to be a threat to the Communist party.

I can see why they picked up the other 50 people praying there. They should forbid them to do so, but driving those people away isn't going to do much.

 


<< and they're just closing the church down. it's a live-in church type thing, not just an old people's home. >>



Really? Oh, well then its perfectly acceptable to kill the old folks for that!
(I hope thats not what you were implying Gopunk)



Sad thing is, there are plenty of people here who would love to see this happen world-wide.


And as for judging what China does - I will ALWAYS judge murdering old folks as wrong, no matter how much certain "tolerant, except for people we don't like" groups advocate I "don't judge".
 
Really? Oh, well then its perfectly acceptable to kill the old folks for that!
(I hope thats not what you were implying Gopunk)

first off, where are you getting "kill"? they're closing down the church, evicting them. if you're evicted from your apartment, are you then "murdered"?

secondly, that's not what i'm implying, i'm simply stating that this is happening because that home happened to be a church as well.

And as for judging what China does - I will ALWAYS judge murdering old folks as wrong, no matter how much certain "tolerant, except for people we don't like" groups advocate I "don't judge".

maybe they've done it elsewhere, but they're not murdering these people....
 
"i'm simply stating that this is happening because that home happened to be a church as well."

It didn't just happen to be a church as well, it is being shut down because of the religious issues.

Here's another article from CNN if the other one is too "misleading" for your tastes, paints pretty much the same picture.


BEIJING, China (AP) -- Chinese authorities have released 47 Chinese Christians who were arrested during a prayer service last week.

Police raided a private retirement home used for hosting an underground prayer service financed by Chinese Christians last Thursday, arresting and detaining worshippers.

Bibles, mobile phones and tape players were also seized during the raid.

The detainees were released on Friday, but another 15 people were picked up again and held until Saturday, Liu Fenggang, a member of the underground Protestant church, said.

The raid came the same day U.S. President George W. Bush arrived in Beijing for a two-day visit.

Liu suspects the arrest might have resulted from heightened surveillance of Christian activists in time for the Bush's arrival.

During his visit, Bush appealed publicly to China to lift its restrictions on religious activity.

But Chinese President Jiang Zemin said China protected religious freedom, and said people were only detained for breaking the law and not for religious activities.

China has been cracking down on independent religious groups that the ruling Chinese Communist Party sees as a threat to its monopoly on power, and only allows state-monitored worship.

Maltreated
In-Depth
President Bush East Asia Tour


Falun Gong China's Dilemma





Liu said the detainees were forbidden to drink water or use the bathroom for much of their confinement, causing one to suffer an irregular heartbeat and be sent to hospital.

All were repeatedly interrogated, Liu added, who himself has been detained several times and spent two years in a labor camp.

"They claimed we were holding an illegal meeting, but we said we were only exercising our right to freedom of faith," he said.

Police ordered the closure of the retirement home and the removal of its 12 elderly residents.

The owners were also ordered to hand over the property and pay a fine of 50,000 yuan or $6,100.

However, a deadline to close the facility passed Sunday without police action, said the home's co-owner, Yang Guizhi.

"It looks like they may have backed off. Where were we supposed to send these old folks? You tell me," she said.

The Vatican said this month that 53 Chinese bishops and priests were either detained or kept under surveillance and forbidden to worship.

In December, three leaders of an independent Protestant church in southern China were sentenced to death on charges of violating anti-cult laws.

They were also accused of rape and assault charges, which their followers say are fabricated.


 
as much as I dislike China due to my taiwan heritage, there might still be a possibility that this article is part of an anti-china propaganda that we see in the United States media all the time.
 


<< We live in the United States, what they are doing might seem wrong to us, but to them it might be perfectly acceptable. The world is huge, sometimes we Americans get so caught up with our ego of superiority we forget that. We have no sovereignty over the actions of China, it's really none of our business. All I'm saying is that we do some pretty shady things too... >>


Come on now, saying something's okay because of its relative position in a different value system is BS...Things like Rape, Murder, etc. are universally wrong and we all know that. If a system said rape or murder were okay, would they still be equally valid to American values?

Furthermore, pointing out that other people also do wrong things doesn't make what they're doing any less wrong
 
gopunk:

In China, they are out on the streets now, with no heat, water, or anything. Others will fear taking them in as the gov't would be watching. Unless some relative steps in and risks it, they are in severe danger of dying due to exposure.

We are talking 98 year olds, many handicapped! My Grandma is 94 -she would last maybe one day alone on the streets. Maybe.


(not addressed to gopunk)
I cannot fathom how anyone could stand behind these actions.
 


<< gopunk:

In China, they are out on the streets now, with no heat, water, or anything. Others will fear taking them in as the gov't would be watching. Unless some relative steps in and risks it, they are in severe danger of dying due to exposure.

We are talking 98 year olds, many handicapped! My Grandma is 94 -she would last maybe one day alone on the streets. Maybe.


(not addressed to gopunk)
I cannot fathom how anyone could stand behind these actions. >>



Shoot I'll address it to Gopunk.

We are not talking about kicking out people with means or good health.
 


<< Isn't China trying to get an Olympic bid? I thought I remember that from a while back... >>


they got the olypic bid too dude!!! It will be hekd there in 2008
 


<< as much as I dislike China due to my taiwan heritage, there might still be a possibility that this article is part of an anti-china propaganda that we see in the United States media all the time. >>


The article is from Reuters, not the AP.

EDIT: But even if it was from the AP, they are fairly objective in their reporting.
 


<< "i'm simply stating that this is happening because that home happened to be a church as well." >>


It didn't just happen to be a church as well, it is being shut down because of the religious issues.

i'm not seeing where we disagree...


We are talking 98 year olds, many handicapped! My Grandma is 94 -she would last maybe one day alone on the streets. Maybe.

yes, and that is sad... don't get me wrong, it is. however... this is not some giant surprise. everybody knows the chinese government hates religion, and everybody knows they persecute it. these old people knew the risk they were taking and chose to accept it. it may not be right for the government to do what it's doing, but any fool could have predicted it.
 
"i'm not seeing where we disagree... "

I thought you were arguing that they were shutting down a home, that just happened to be a church. Instead of shutting down a church, that just happened to be a home. My apologies if I misread you.
 


<< vespasian, master of the massive burning sphincteric hemmorhoidal flaming topics. 🙂 >>



Vespasian rocks.

I'm the Lord of all Flamebait

Remember that. 😀
 
Wow, that's pretty f*cked up, but Christians aren't the only ones getting ripped by that government. It'll be a good day when that government changes into a democracy if ever.
 


<< "i'm not seeing where we disagree... "

I thought you were arguing that they were shutting down a home, that just happened to be a church. Instead of shutting down a church, that just happened to be a home. My apologies if I misread you. >>



ah i see 🙂 no, i was just saying that the article was sort of misleading because it made it seem like they were just arbitrarily shutting down some person's home, when the reason they are shutting it down is because it's not just a home but also a place of worship.
 
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