China celebrates WWll victory over Japanese aggressors

[norseamd]

Using ballistic missiles for conventional strikes is seriously risky business. Odds are they'd never be used even if conflict broke out.

For sure.

Was forgetting about this.

And it is sad because ballistic missiles are some very powerful hardware.

 

[trenchfoot]

What you guys think of this new Carrier killing missile that China is gloating about in their parade? It's the blue mobile missile launchers you see in the vids.

I also heard how they are boasting how they have many intermediate ballistic missiles that can every American base in the Pacific all the way out to hawaii now

First and foremost China, with Sun Tzu being their epic guide toward waging war, fully understands and skillfully utilizes deception as THE weapon of war against those threats both internally and externally.

So it seems to me that they apply this well-honed time-honored skill toward keeping its enemies from knowing what's real and what's not, with national pride and the propaganda that drives this engine being the weak links that occasionally exposes some of that trickery (but did it really?)

The apparent paper tiger apparently wants us to believe that the apparent hidden dragon within its wrappings will apparently always remain a mystery until they decide it's necessary to unveil it, and even then its enemies will still have to guess if the unveiling is real or just...................................another deception. :ninja:

 

[Murloc]

I disagree. As I understand it China's primary geopolitical focus is the South China Sea, I find it very unlikely that they will ever expand their interests much beyond that. They'll cooperate with Russia and Iran loosely as a sort of anti-western confederation, but geographically and culturally, close cooperation between those nations will be difficult.

Chinese nationalism is like Russian nationalism and used by the government to distract from the severe problems faced by their respective populations.

They collaborate more with Pakistan in an anti-india function.

they're mostly trying to extend business influence in other countries.

They will never behave as true allies with Russia and Iran. It's all about the money.

China knows they are nothing without us, and likewise.

this

 

[kage69]

I also don't agree. I don't think Chinese leadership accurately represents the people they govern.

That' doesn't mean they still aren't formidable and dangerous...but I just don't see your average Chinese citizen wanting to dominate the globe and exterminate countries like USA. China knows they are nothing without us, and likewise.

Perhaps I should have been more clear - I'm not talking about Chinese civilians. My experiences with Han and Haaka Chinese people have actually been very positive, I was referring to quasi communist government running the show from Beijing.

What do the people have to do with anything? The PLA is the military arm of a political party, not a national army as we know them. Add to that Beijing has been doing a great job convincing it's people they are continually victimized and disenfranchised by Japan and others, and that this generation is responsible for removing the disgrace that China received in "The Lost Century."

Any of you remember what happened the last time a great power convinced it's people it had to invade out of survival, and fuck all who have a problem with it? Now factor in that China has no where near the kind free press, freedoms and oversight we enjoy here in the States that allow us to better keep tabs on our politicians.

Xi's effort to re-write history regarding the fight against the Japanese is part of a creative new narrative that is being sold to justify the party's military and political agenda. We've seen this before in other parts of the world before, and most students of history know how that ended up. China knows it's cresting the top of the wave, and soon it will be time to 'shit or get off the pot.' Chinese generals have made no secret in the past about wanting a scrap with the US. I recall one even declared that China should receive a large swath of the arctic, because.... uh, sovereignty.

Sorry, I just no longer see trade as a sufficient buffer for American interests against Chinese expansionism. And I hope I'm wrong!

 

[kage69]

You guys see the new PLA Navy recruitment video they made?

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2015/08/13/china-dreams-of-blue-water-navy-in-recruitment-video/

In what world is that kind of propaganda reassuring? This is what countries do when they have to sell a war.

 

[Nebor]

An interesting idea. However they have been somewhat overhyped. However if you were to fire them in large volleys, you might have a good possibility of overwhelming any carrier fleet, and sinking any of those expensive ships, most especially any supercarriers. But assuming that you can sink or mitigate any carrier fleet with the DF-21 you still have to start factoring in cost. If a salvo of DF-21 are less expensive than the carrier fleet that you sink then they DF-21 is a very powerful platform.



No their IRBM can not hit Hawaii or the American mainland. However they can reach Guam from the Chinese mainland.

Let's be real here, if a US air craft carrier is sunk by a hostile nation, the American people are going to call for nuclear retaliation. That's 3,000+ US Navy sailors and billions of dollars in equipment.

 

[Zorkorist]

Personally I don't give a shit about "American Military Might."

The only "might" you have is spending me into debt.

-John

 

[alcoholbob]

Let's be real here, if a US air craft carrier is sunk by a hostile nation, the American people are going to call for nuclear retaliation. That's 3,000+ US Navy sailors and billions of dollars in equipment.

American nuclear retaliation would also cause the West Coast to to get wiped in retaliation. After that the U.S. Would have no offensive assets besides more deploying more nukes.

 

[Nebor]

American nuclear retaliation would also cause the West Coast to to get wiped in retaliation. After that the U.S. Would have no offensive assets besides more deploying more nukes.

Maybe. I'm not certain the Chinese have that capability. But you can't let that possibility govern your actions.

 

[MongGrel]

How managed to defeat who is a bit immaterial on that one.

The Russians probably did a lot more to Hitler than anyone in the Allies whe he went two fronts, the Japanese did some really horrendous crap to the Chinese even before the US entered WWII.

They tend not to forget that.

 

[kage69]

In the off chance some people think China is being too subtle, they released this gem last week.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a17220/china-video-attack-us/

A bunch of Chinese warships just buzzed Alaska I heard. I guess they think the northernmost portion of our country, on the mainland, is somehow analogous to their new bullshit piles of sand which clearly do not meet the requirements for asserting territorial claims.

Xi wants a dick waving contest, and has a military all too welcome to assist with that.

 

[MongGrel]

Hell, a lot of big US Corporations support the Chinese openly of course.

I used to work for one, the day they hired a Chinese manager and he came into that very "Large" aerospace company and they stood him up there and he started ranting as an experiment, I was a bit stunned myself with my jaw dropped and going WTF.

I think they led him off later and told him to tone it down a bit.

Was like China management in the US and the Corporation supporting it.

It's all just pathetic in general.

He sounded like the Idiot on the WOW raid going yelling "You are all failures, blah blah" when it was one of the highest producing divisions at the time.

 

[MongGrel]

Trump would probably unite with them.

Welcome to your new future.

 

[Murloc]

How managed to defeat who is a bit immaterial on that one.

The Russians probably did a lot more to Hitler than anyone in the Allies whe he went two fronts, the Japanese did some really horrendous crap to the Chinese even before the US entered WWII.

They tend not to forget that.

besides, also Italy celebrates the WW2 victory. You heard that right.

 

[stlc8tr]

How managed to defeat who is a bit immaterial on that one.

The Russians probably did a lot more to Hitler than anyone in the Allies whe he went two fronts, the Japanese did some really horrendous crap to the Chinese even before the US entered WWII.

They tend not to forget that.

I assume China pulled some weight during WWII or else why else would they have been granted a permanent seat on the Security Council?

 

[Mike64]

I assume China pulled some weight during WWII or else why else would they have been granted a permanent seat on the Security Council?

I'm staying out of the rest of this ridiculous thread, but for the record, it was the ROC, not the PRC, that had the seat on the Security Council until 1971. Realistically, the reason the ROC had a seat on it to begin with was "because geopolitics", not because it had the actual political (let alone military) weight to "demand" it. See generally, China and the United Nations. (On a related note, the United States didn't formally recognize the PRC until 1979, when we basically switched our recognition of "China" from the ROC to the PRC.)

 

[Karl Agathon]

Let's be real here, if a US air craft carrier is sunk by a hostile nation, the American people are going to call for nuclear retaliation. That's 3,000+ US Navy sailors and billions of dollars in equipment.

^^^This

Although don't think it would be nuclear retaliation. Safe to say one of their carriers (assuming one is even in full service at the time) would be obliterated in retaliation. That or an equivalent (a significant amount of their Navy or naval base)

Only a delusional fool would think sinking a USN carrier, and possibly killing thousands would not attract massive retaliation.

 

[alcoholbob]

I assume China pulled some weight during WWII or else why else would they have been granted a permanent seat on the Security Council?

No, more like the United States didn't want China to have a seat in the Security Council but the UN General Assembly overrode the US and replaced Taiwan's seat at the Security Council with China.

It's also no coincidence that it occurred within months after the U.S. left the gold standard. After the U.S. was no longer able to maintain the Breton Woods system it lost a significant amount of soft power in global politics.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Oh look, it's the usual gung ho tribe at it again.

France does military parades every year and no one bats an eyelid. The Japanese were vicious creeps in WW2 and did horrible things to China, personally I have no problems with the Chinese rubbing their victory in Japan's face. Don't forget Japan haven't even apologized properly yet.

 

[Jhhnn]

No, more like the United States didn't want China to have a seat in the Security Council but the UN General Assembly overrode the US and replaced Taiwan's seat at the Security Council with China.

Nice distortion. The US has veto power in the Security Council, so if Nixon wanted to stop that change he would have. The US didn't argue to exclude the PRC but rather to include the ROC in the UN as well.

http://learning.blogs.nytimes.com/2...s-republic-of-china-in-taiwan-out-at-un/?_r=0

It's also no coincidence that it occurred within months after the U.S. left the gold standard. After the U.S. was no longer able to maintain the Breton Woods system it lost a significant amount of soft power in global politics.

Exactly the opposite occurred. Previously, Gold was the financial safe haven. When we went off the Gold Standard, the Dollar took its place-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_currency

Also see the Nixon Shock here-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system#Nixon_Shock

 

[Jhhnn]

China takes a much longer view of history than we do. That's because they have a lot more of it.

Military weakness has commonly led to dynastic change in China during its very long history. More recently, it led to foreign domination from the Opium wars until the Communist takeover. Britain, the US, & Japan come to mind.

Historically, China has enjoyed peace & prosperity under strong emperors, misery under weak ones. Obviously, their Govt wants to take the strong emperor role.

That doesn't mean they intend aggression any more than our strong military indicates that we do.

Well, except when we're fools enough to let Neocons run the country.

 

[Sonikku]

Oh look, it's the usual gung ho tribe at it again.

France does military parades every year and no one bats an eyelid. The Japanese were vicious creeps in WW2 and did horrible things to China, personally I have no problems with the Chinese rubbing their victory in Japan's face. Don't forget Japan haven't even apologized properly yet.

China can get their apology just as soon as Japan gets an apology for the many numerous times China tried conquering them throughout history. Nobody's "innocent" here.

 

[Jhhnn]

China can get their apology just as soon as Japan gets an apology for the many numerous times China tried conquering them throughout history. Nobody's "innocent" here.

The last time China attempted to invade Japan was in 1281, iirc...

 

[Darwin333]

meh all countries do military parades, although not of this level usually....

Frankly with the one child policy I'm not so sure they'd want to waste soldiers on unnecessary wars.

They could lose a billion people, almost 5 times the US population, and still have a larger population than the US albeit not by much. Just trying to point out the sheer scale.

 

[norseamd]

The last time China attempted to invade Japan was in 1281, iirc...

Knew it was going to be a long time ago. I mean it is going to be the same story with the Mongols also. Not sure if the Koreans ever tried to conquer Japan recently. Japan however has tried may times to conquer Korea and has accomplished that at least a few times so far. They have also tried to conquer China a few times including including the 2nd Sino-Japanese War starting in 1937 which evolved into the Pacific theatre of World War 2, and all of that was after the Japanese annexed Korea in 1910. To be fair however Korea was basically denigrated to a tributary state of the Qin Dynasty until the 1st Sino-Japanese War from 1894 to 1895.