Chilling tale from an NY Times reporter who survived a midair collision

[BrokenVisage]

Originally posted by: buck
Its a shame that this isnt newsworthy in the US, but some football players bad behavior is.

Yeah seriously.

 

[Patt]

Brilliant link. Thanks.

 

[acemcmac]

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
the news this morning said that the pilots of the business jet ignored ATC directions to change altitude and should not have been anywhere near the 737. The pilots have been detained in Brazil.

ouch

 

[archiloco]

man sucks for the pilots, it's not their fault they did not get the radio call, as for the pilots of the 737 they where the real heroes they saw the plane and manuvered away from it, too bad they got into a stupid spiral.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
the news this morning said that the pilots of the business jet ignored ATC directions to change altitude and should not have been anywhere near the 737. The pilots have been detained in Brazil.

The pilots claimed they had no radio contact, which is verified because ATC tried to call them on a few different frequencies.

yeah they need to listen to the "black box" to really know for sure.

anyway they also have some rules "All westbound flights fly at even numbers with 1,000 feet separation. Eastbound flights fly at odd numbers, same 1,000 separation," she said. "Since the American pilots were flying northwest, they should not have been at 37,000 since that's odd."

they also had TCAS wich did not alert the pilots.

 

[Yossarian]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
the news this morning said that the pilots of the business jet ignored ATC directions to change altitude and should not have been anywhere near the 737. The pilots have been detained in Brazil.

The pilots claimed they had no radio contact, which is verified because ATC tried to call them on a few different frequencies.

yeah they need to listen to the "black box" to really know for sure.

anyway they also have some rules "All westbound flights fly at even numbers with 1,000 feet separation. Eastbound flights fly at odd numbers, same 1,000 separation," she said. "Since the American pilots were flying northwest, they should not have been at 37,000 since that's odd."

they also had TCAS wich did not alert the pilots.

if either aircraft's transponders were off or inoperative TCAS would not detect them.

 

[Alex]

"PLANE THAT CLIPPED US??"" is this guy frickin serious?????

if anyone has been reading ANYTHING about this its obvious that his frickin 25 million dollar jet was flying at the wrong altitude and IT clipped the plane, not the other way round.

these guys had the transponder or whatever turned off, were undetectable by radio and were flying at an altitude they knew they shouldn't be. and then they hit a boeing and 155 people die and they actually survive??? doesn't seem fair. and now this a$$hole is gonna write a book and be in a movie and become a celebrity now????

WTF :|:| :brokenheart:

yeah im pretty pissed off about this yeah im from brazil and this has been all over the media lately and to see this article just makes me wanna slap this guy. i hope our government screws him over i already heard they were gonna confiscate his visa.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: franguinho
"PLANE THAT CLIPPED US?:brokenheart:?"" is this guy frickin serious?????

if anyone has been reading ANYTHING about this its obvious that his frickin 25 million dollar jet was flying at the wrong altitude and IT clipped the plane, not the other way round.

these guys had the transponder or whatever turned off, were undetectable by radio and were flying at an altitude they knew they shouldn't be. and then they hit a boeing and 155 people die and they actually survive??? doesn't seem fair. and now this a$$hole is gonna write a book and be in a movie and become a celebrity now????

WTF :|:| :brokenheart:

You already know that ATC did not clear them to FL37? It's amazing that you guys have all this information even when the investigators don't.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: franguinho
"PLANE THAT CLIPPED US?:brokenheart:?"" is this guy frickin serious?????

if anyone has been reading ANYTHING about this its obvious that his frickin 25 million dollar jet was flying at the wrong altitude and IT clipped the plane, not the other way round.

these guys had the transponder or whatever turned off, were undetectable by radio and were flying at an altitude they knew they shouldn't be. and then they hit a boeing and 155 people die and they actually survive??? doesn't seem fair. and now this a$$hole is gonna write a book and be in a movie and become a celebrity now????

WTF :|:| :brokenheart:

to be fair teh guy was not the pilot.

so how is he an asshole? he did nothing wrong. sure he is going to write a book. but until you know what is in it you really can't say anything. for all you know he may write how hte pilots of his jet nearly killed him and caused the death of 155 people.

i think your anger is mis-directed.

 

[Alex]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: franguinho
"PLANE THAT CLIPPED US?:brokenheart:?"" is this guy frickin serious?????

if anyone has been reading ANYTHING about this its obvious that his frickin 25 million dollar jet was flying at the wrong altitude and IT clipped the plane, not the other way round.

these guys had the transponder or whatever turned off, were undetectable by radio and were flying at an altitude they knew they shouldn't be. and then they hit a boeing and 155 people die and they actually survive??? doesn't seem fair. and now this a$$hole is gonna write a book and be in a movie and become a celebrity now????

WTF :|:| :brokenheart:

to be fair teh guy was not the pilot.

so how is he an asshole? he did nothing wrong. sure he is going to write a book. but until you know what is in it you really can't say anything. for all you know he may write how hte pilots of his jet nearly killed him and caused the death of 155 people.

i think your anger is mis-directed.

yeah it is... i admit to that... after reading the rest of the article it makes more sense but still. it was those two "hero" pilots who caused this in the first place.

You already know that ATC did not clear them to FL37? It's amazing that you guys have all this information even when the investigators don't.

it was in the paper yesterday and again this morning

They were cleared to FLY FL37 up to a certain point and then had to switch to an "EVEN" altitude, precisely because of the risk of a colission.

see at FL37 in that particular zone planes go the other way. so pretty much that corporate plane was going against traffic.

brazil has very strict demarked zones and air traffic control and this kinda stuff never happened before iirc. and now this dumbass who killed 155 people is a hero cause he saved 7 others that shouldn't have even been in accident the first place? (if he had stuck to the regulations)

 

[Runes911]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
the news this morning said that the pilots of the business jet ignored ATC directions to change altitude and should not have been anywhere near the 737. The pilots have been detained in Brazil.

The pilots claimed they had no radio contact, which is verified because ATC tried to call them on a few different frequencies.

Wiz you seem to know a good bit on planes and avionics, hobbiest? Or perhaps you do something in that field?

 

[j00fek]

man thats some sh!t :Q

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: Runes911

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats
the news this morning said that the pilots of the business jet ignored ATC directions to change altitude and should not have been anywhere near the 737. The pilots have been detained in Brazil.

The pilots claimed they had no radio contact, which is verified because ATC tried to call them on a few different frequencies.

Wiz you seem to know a good bit on planes and avionics, hobbiest? Or perhaps you do something in that field?

Just a hobby to follow plane accidents. Kind of morbid.

 

[MX2]

Investigators are still trying to sort out what happened, and how ? our smaller jet managed to stay aloft while a 737 that is longer, wider and more than three times as heavy, fell from the sky nose first.

Hmmm....

 

[Vette73]

U.S. pilots may face manslaughter charge in Brazil crash


Looks like this reporter may be a witness... against the pilots in his plane.

 

[jimmyj68]

Unfortunately, an aircraft the size of a 737 is almost impossible to recover to controlled flight after a maneuver as severe as that which the pilot took to avoid the Embraer 600.

An added factor is that at such altitudes, the thinner air density causes the stall speed of the aircraft to be much closer to the actual airspeed of the plane. What that means is, the airspeed of the plane as measured by instruments decreases as the plane goes higher. At such altitudes speed is measured as a percentage of Mach 1. I believe the latest 737's probably cruise at about Mach .83 or .84 which is about 250 to 260 some knots indicated airspeed.

Not knowing what damage the 737 suffered in the collision, it probably would have stalled from the violent avoidance maneuver and the severe degree of bank the plane was put into. They saved the folks on the Ebraer, but the 737 went irretrievably out of control.

 

[Mill]

I'd really like to find out what happened. Why the hell were they flying at the wrong altitude when it is an international standard? Had they not flown overseas before? Were they given the wrong info? Why the hell did none of the avoidance equipment work, and why did the fvcking radio not work?

Hell, what were the chances the two would hit at 37k feet. Can anyone recall such a thing before? Normally sh!t like this happens within 50-100 miles of an airport in a flight pattern or landing/takeoff lane.