Children Will Be Left Behind. -Forbes Magazine

[ReiAyanami]

http://biz.yahoo.com/fo/040226/42144d0cea1d3dab5b78175112f4c667_1.html

"The law also states, insanely, that by 2014 all American students must be "proficient" in reading and math. Any school at which this doesn't happen will suffer severe penalties, up to and including a takeover by the state. Yet the shape of the bell curve guarantees that most schools will fail. No amount of accountability, incentives and superduper teaching can possibly get all the kids in any sizable school up to 100% proficiency by 2014. "

Oh but you can George, with genetic engineering!

valid criticisms are that some shady school administrators somehow get failing students not to show up on test day, and magically test scores are improved. yippee! we're improving!!

Also, i think 100% proficiency is attainable if we set the target to a higher level, such as 110%, that way, we;ll aim really really high, and when we miss, it'll be closer to 100.

 

[ReiAyanami]

"In some states the effect has been to lower academic standards.

No Child is lowering standards? How can that be? The answer resides in the fact that in order to make the new law seem manageable its authors gave the states some wiggle room in defining "proficient." No Child envisions four levels of mastery for each subject: "Advanced" is highest, followed by "proficient," "basic," and (the lower depths) "below basic."
"

lower the standards till they all pass!
Advanced, Proficient, Basic, Below Basic

A+, B, C, D, wow it's like instead of using letters for grades, they started using words!!

 

[Dissipate]

Public education is a joke. It should have been privatized about 20 years ago.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

We better just give up then - no? Screw actually testing students on what they were supposed to learn - lets just pass them on and give them a diploma if they show up enough times throughout the year.

CkG

*note - yes that was a tad over the top

 

[rahvin]

I guess I'm a bit strange but I tend to think education is entirely a state issue and the fed's have absolutely no authority to be even talking about it.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Originally posted by: rahvin
I guess I'm a bit strange but I tend to think education is entirely a state issue and the fed's have absolutely no authority to be even talking about it.

I must be strange as well.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: rahvin
I guess I'm a bit strange but I tend to think education is entirely a state issue and the fed's have absolutely no authority to be even talking about it.

A little perspective:

Let's roll back the clock 200 years. This whole insane situation is like to say a Teacher in small classroom with all of the kids of all ages out in the Prairie being told what she can and cannot do and teach her students by some nut back in Washington.

It didn't happen then and that is what is happening now and look and what we have and getting worse.

To compound the matter at least the Teacher back then had all of her students learning one language, English, now you have the majority speaking Spanish and refuse to learn English but yet the Teacher only speaks English.

They need to rename that article to "All Children In The U.S. Will Be Left Behind".

Behind the rest of the world as this Country plunges to Third World status. It's happening so fast the AT Expert's are completely blind to it.

 

[conjur]

Perhaps we should all home-school:

http://www.uhea.org/stats.html

 

[ScottyB]

What they really need to do is stop sticking the special ed. kids in with the normal students. All they do is slow the rest of the class down.

 

[Wag]

incentives and superduper teaching can possibly get all the kids in any sizable school up to 100% proficiency by 2014

As a product of the NYC public school system, I'm sorry to say that this is already the case.

The only thing that will come of this is that the bar will be lowered, and more kids will be moved through the system without a decent education. I can't tell you how many of my classmates never picked up a book, much less be able to read it.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

What they really need to do is stop sticking the special ed. kids in with the normal students. All they do is slow the rest of the class down.

Your sacrifice is greatly appreciated. Would you prefer we send you to the basement for three hours a day or should be give up all pretense of educating people like you and just let you stay home?

Every child can be taught to their potential . . . IF . . . society is willing to commit the NECESSARY resources.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: ScottyB
What they really need to do is stop sticking the special ed. kids in with the normal students. All they do is slow the rest of the class down.

And us gifted students were tired of you normal people. All you did was slow the rest of the class down. There should be seperate stuff for the gifted, the normal, and the special ed. Were you Special Ed Scotty?

 

[kage69]

That was a depressing article

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

What they really need to do is stop sticking the special ed. kids in with the normal students. All they do is slow the rest of the class down.

Your sacrifice is greatly appreciated. Would you prefer we send you to the basement for three hours a day or should be give up all pretense of educating people like you and just let you stay home?

Every child can be taught to their potential . . . IF . . . society is willing to commit the NECESSARY resources.

Yeah, but the spec ed. kids can't be taught to their full potential if kept with the "normal" kids, because they do need special resources, so it benifits both sets if they are separated.

 

[SuperTool]

Glad I am not going to high school now. Teachers spending time not teaching those who want to learn, but those who don't want to learn so they can pass a test.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Glad I am not going to high school now. Teachers spending time not teaching those who want to learn, but those who don't want to learn so they can pass a test.

It was that way before they put exit exams and testing in. Nice try at blasting NCLBA though.
Testing is the ONLY way you can see if a child learns and/or understands what was taught(or supposed to have been taught). Blaming tests for weak academic performance or knowledge is asinine. But then again - a High School Diploma really is just a certificate of attendance anymore. <shrugs>

CkG

 

[heartsurgeon]

if it was such crappy legislation, how come Kerry signed on?

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: rahvin
I guess I'm a bit strange but I tend to think education is entirely a state issue and the fed's have absolutely no authority to be even talking about it.

Let's take something that is a decidely National issue, how about National Defense ?

Your position is that there is no National need for educated people for ANY National defense missions ?

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
if it was such crappy legislation, how come Kerry signed on?

For the same reason Bush did, it isn't crappy legislation. The article in the OP is a crappy article.


But on the issue of Kerry vs Bush, I assume that Kerry is more likely to fully fund the program, not because Bush wouldn't like to, but because I don't think Bush's fiscal policy will allow for it.

 

[sandorski]

NCLB sounds totally assbackwards. To simply order Acheivement(X) by Time(Y) or Else(Z) will do nothing! You need to know why the situation exists in the first place, then change Procedures to counteract those reasons. I think the whole purpose of NCLB is not to fix the situation, but to force Education Systems to become Entrepreneurial(sp) with the hope one of them finds a solution. At the end of it a working Model might exist, but it's a huge and risky experiment. Expect a drop in Quality of education, at least as long as the Social Experiment continues.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Yeah, but the spec ed. kids can't be taught to their full potential if kept with the "normal" kids, because they do need special resources, so it benifits both sets if they are separated.

Hmm, let me guess . . . you have no idea what you are talking about? Special "resources" includes but is not limited to 1) pull out, 2) classroom aid, 3) afterschool, 4) home aid, 5) holistic developmental evaluation, 6) individualized education plan.

Just in case you really care . . . Research page for the National Center for Low Incidence Disabilities.

And of course North Carolina . . . we may be bottom feeders but at least we try REAL hard.

UNC Center for School Leadership Development

The Center has seven existing professional development programs, and one in the planning stage. There is also a virtual online communications center.

 

[conehead433]

Bush can read?

 

[Genesys]

if they fall behind then the can go work in the coal mines
or they can be grave diggers
and they cannot be allowed to reproduce because we dont want their inferior genes polluting the gene pool

/sarcasm

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch

Originally posted by: rahvin
I guess I'm a bit strange but I tend to think education is entirely a state issue and the fed's have absolutely no authority to be even talking about it.

Let's take something that is a decidely National issue, how about National Defense ?

Your position is that there is no National need for educated people for ANY National defense missions ?

Lets take something that is entirely constitutional. The constitution expressly forbids the federal government from handling Education and explicitly gives the states control. It is a state issuse, has always been a state issue and there shouldn't even be a federal department of education. PERIOD. The federal piggy has tried to override the consitutional exemption by waving federal dollar signs in front of the states. I think it's disgusting, such issues as eduation are handled MUCH more efficiently on a state level.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch

Originally posted by: rahvin
I guess I'm a bit strange but I tend to think education is entirely a state issue and the fed's have absolutely no authority to be even talking about it.

Let's take something that is a decidely National issue, how about National Defense ?

Your position is that there is no National need for educated people for ANY National defense missions ?

Lets take something that is entirely constitutional. The constitution expressly forbids the federal government from handling Education and explicitly gives the states control. It is a state issuse, has always been a state issue and there shouldn't even be a federal department of education. PERIOD. The federal piggy has tried to override the consitutional exemption by waving federal dollar signs in front of the states. I think it's disgusting, such issues as eduation are handled MUCH more efficiently on a state level.

Exactly. But the only problem is that states may not set equal standards for Diplomas so a Diploma from one state might not mean as much as one from a different state. But then again they don't mean much currently anyway.

CkG