Chickens of Mass Destruction . . .

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
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Bush Presents Bird Flu Plan . . .

and nobody notices ?

Come on people - he want's to put $ 7.1 Billion into the pockets of Pharmacuticals to give us a Vaccine in a year or two
and provide that defense to 20 Million Americans - out of a population of over 280 Million people, that's only 7% of the country.
Provided, of course, that the Pharmacutical Industry can be insulated and kept out of any possibility of lawsuit for negligence on their part.

OK - H5N1 has been watched closely since 1997 when it was discovered in South East Asia, around Vietnam and China,
and has killed a total of 62 people (that we know of) so far. All were working in the poultry business either handling, raising chickens and ducks,
or had consumed meat from infected stock.

As of yet there has not been that demon mutation that lets the virus pass directly from human to human,
and ducks are immune - although they are carriers.
The big threat is of course that dreaded mutation, and it has been found in the migratory bird population that travels from Asia into Europe.
Soon it will move into the migratory population of birds that travel between Europe and North America. Threat of Menace ?

Now the West Nile virus has already killed more people in the US than H5N1 has affected in the whole world,
and over the last 5 years little effort has been made to take control of this serious outbreak that
possibly could have been snuffed out in the first 2 years of it's transmission from the North East.

How about Ebola or other hemmoraghetic virus forms that have no cure and have killed thousands in Africa -
and are know to pass human to human.
Terrorist's put a sick individual on an airplane and send them on a farewell tour - big trouble.



 

EatSpam

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
6,423
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Originally posted by: Pabster
You can thank the MSM and their "Pandemic" parroting for that.

True, but I think Bush has done a lot of his own fearmongering.
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
Last time I had the flu in almost 25 years, is influenza really something that effects that many adults?


Also... isn't this kind of a form of "Socialized medicine" ?
 

digitalsm

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2003
5,253
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Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: Pabster
You can thank the MSM and their "Pandemic" parroting for that.

True, but I think Bush has done a lot of his own fearmongering.

Yeah and thats because hes been forced to. Not more than a month ago the left and others were bashing Bush for not being prepared for impending doom. There words not mine. There are still plenty that dont believe Bush is doing enough.

Also comparing a bird flu outbreak to west nile is not quite appropriate. If the fird flu mutated it would be far worse than the over hyped and not very dangerous west nile virus.
 

digitalsm

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2003
5,253
0
0
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Last time I had the flu in almost 25 years, is influenza really something that effects that many adults?


Also... isn't this kind of a form of "Socialized medicine" ?

History would say yes it does effect adults, but the main people who would likely die are those under 12 and over 60.
 

shrumpage

Golden Member
Mar 1, 2004
1,304
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Originally posted by: digitalsm
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Last time I had the flu in almost 25 years, is influenza really something that effects that many adults?


Also... isn't this kind of a form of "Socialized medicine" ?

History would say yes it does effect adults, but the main people who would likely die are those under 12 and over 60.

The the early pandemic or epidemic (not sure which to use) that happened in the early 1900, the problem was it affected and killed 20 and 30 somethings, not the standard very young and very old.



Downside to being president is, your damned if you do damned if you don't. If G.W. did not devote any resources to the issue, people would complain. If something actually did happen and some sort of "killer flu" occured, people would be yelling and screaming that the government didn't do enough.

 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
1
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Originally posted by: shrumpage
Downside to being president is, your damned if you do damned if you don't. If G.W. did not devote any resources to the issue, people would complain. If something actually did happen and some sort of "killer flu" occured, people would be yelling and screaming that the government didn't do enough.

QFT, and I've got a good idea on who "people" might be.

 
Jun 27, 2005
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Personally I think he's just trying to make up for last year's "Just don't get sick" flu debacle.

Of course... there is such a thing as overcompensating.
 

EatSpam

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
6,423
0
0
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: EatSpam
True, but I think Bush has done a lot of his own fearmongering.

An early obfuscation attempt?

I'd call the YahooNews article the OP posted blatant fearmongering from both the media and Dubya. That $7.1 billion gift to the drug companies would be best spent elsewhere....anywhere, just about.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
Originally posted by: digitalsm
History would say yes it does effect adults, but the main people who would likely die are those under 12 and over 60.
Actually, no.

A pandemic is by definition caused by a virus that has undergone antigenic shift (a large, sudden change in the surface proteins), as opposed to the far more typical (and inevitable) antigenic drift (a much smaller, gradual chage).

Antigenic shifts occur only rarely, usually only once in several decades. The large shifts that occur may reproduce an earlier form of the virus. Thus, only those who were alive when the earlier form existed will have any natural immunity, and anyone younger will have no immunity at all. So paradoxically, pandemics often disproportionately affect the young and younger adults. That was what occurred during the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Most likely single outcome from the 'Avian Flu Panic' would be to curtail travel,
as those who become paranoid may also become reclusive and isolationist.

Airlines and travel agencies are going to love it.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Most likely single outcome from the 'Avian Flu Panic' would be to curtail travel,
as those who become paranoid may also become reclusive and isolationist.

Airlines and travel agencies are going to love it.

11-2-2005 U.S. To Restrict Travel to Prevent Flu

WASHINGTON - Sustained person-to-person spread of the bird flu or any other super-influenza strain anywhere in the world could prompt the United States to implement travel restrictions or other steps to block a brewing pandemic, say federal plans released Wednesday.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Nearly every night it seems, you can find some news media station reporting on the impending doom of a bird flu pandemic...with death toll numbers ranging from the hundreds of thousands to the millions, and analogies made to the Black Plague and other mass deaths of Biblical proportions.

Similarly, the Bush Administration took quite a beating over Katrina for not having an answer to every conceivable scenario for contending with every possible catastrophe on American soil. Monday morning quarterback dynamic in over drive.

Does it surprise anyone that this would be the response to the bird flu media frenzy.

Blame the media.
Blame the Monday morning quarterback hypocrites.

Bush is simply a product of our bureaucratic, knee jerk and partisan political system.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Last time I had the flu in almost 25 years, is influenza really something that effects that many adults?


Also... isn't this kind of a form of "Socialized medicine" ?

The annual flu KILLS 36,000 Americans (mainly old folks, rarely kids) and accounts for several hundred thousand hospital admissions. A universal vaccination program would save BILLIONS each year PLUS it would provide an incentive for drug companies to have established, well-maintained vaccine research and production facilities. Alas, such a program would make too much sense in America.

The avian flu is a totally different issue. Per norm, Bush's plan is retarded. To borrow a page from the Bush Fearmongering Playbook, it doesn't make sense to be fighting the disease here . . . we need to invest billions upon billions to fight the disease over there.

It's almost totally foolhardy to invest money in actual vaccine production when it's highly unlikely that the vaccine produced will be effective against a highly infectious human strain that's yet to evolve.

The intelligent thing to do would be invest billions in southeast Asia. Help those countries develop/maintain state of the art disease monitoring systems. In addition, they will need every resource available to contain a human strain (financial, public health, pharmaceutical, military).

If all developed countries instituted universal flu vaccination programs (and subsidized programs in the developing world), an outbreak of avian (or any other virus) would lead to rapid characterization in the region followed by the coordinated production of vaccine on six continents.

Bush is correct to highlight public health issues in America but it's a half-hearted effort since he doesn't believe in public health. Anybody remember the health clinics he was talking about a few years ago? The notion that individual states would do most of the heavy lifting is retarded. States with well-funded, well-run public health systems might have a fighting chance but the other 40 states means a significant outbreak is almost a certainty.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Bush Presents Bird Flu Plan . . .

and nobody notices ?

Come on people - he want's to put $ 7.1 Billion into the pockets of Pharmacuticals to give us a Vaccine in a year or two
and provide that defense to 20 Million Americans - out of a population of over 280 Million people, that's only 7% of the country.
Provided, of course, that the Pharmacutical Industry can be insulated and kept out of any possibility of lawsuit for negligence on their part.

Truly a grave and gathering threat. I mean the administration, not the bird flu.

 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
8,574
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the headline here today said something along the lines of:
Bush devotes 7.1 Billion to Bird Flu
Democrats say its not enough
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
Originally posted by: ElFenix
the headline here today said something along the lines of:
Bush devotes 7.1 Billion to Bird Flu
Democrats say its not enough

Well, that's basically true. Most of the money is for mitigation of global pandemic spreading to America when the BEST investment would be early intervention (clearly focused on SE Asia) though monitoring, public health initiatives, vaccine research (not necessarily development . . . unless it's for the friggin' birds), and unprecedent intergovernmental collaborative projects.

Stockpiling Tamiflu and Relenza is dumb. Rush production of the current avian vaccine candidates is dumb. Legal protection for vaccine production is worthless.

Basically a better plan with more money is needed . . . assuming we can get everyone in SE Asia to operate from the same playbook.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

. . . assuming we can get everyone in SE Asia to operate from the same playbook.


And there lies the problem - SEA poultry farmers are not willing to deatroy their suspected stock, and loose all their income and livelyhood.

Most of the rural farms are in the backwoods (jungles) and those people have local population zones consuming their products.
A percentage makes it into the larger city markets as live stock, that which dies is dressed and hung for consumption.
Those people who handle the poultry at any time in the process are the ones at risk.
Ducks can have it, show no symptoms, and not be affected.

Hard to break through the rural SEA culture, US and the French before them, never really did.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
You got to admit that Rumsfeld sure knew how to pick some winners

NEW YORK (Fortune) - The prospect of a bird flu outbreak may be panicking people around the globe, but it's proving to be very good news for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and other politically connected investors in Gilead Sciences, the California biotech company that owns the rights to Tamiflu, the influenza remedy that's now the most-sought after drug in the world.

Rumsfeld served as Gilead (Research)'s chairman from 1997 until he joined the Bush administration in 2001, and he still holds a Gilead stake valued at between $5 million and $25 million, according to federal financial disclosures filed by Rumsfeld.

The forms don't reveal the exact number of shares Rumsfeld owns, but in the past six months fears of a pandemic and the ensuing scramble for Tamiflu have sent Gilead's stock from $35 to $47. That's made the Pentagon chief, already one of the wealthiest members of the Bush cabinet, at least $1 million richer.

Rumsfeld isn't the only political heavyweight benefiting from demand for Tamiflu, which is manufactured and marketed by Swiss pharma giant Roche. (Gilead receives a royalty from Roche equaling about 10% of sales.) Former Secretary of State George Shultz, who is on Gilead's board, has sold more than $7 million worth of Gilead since the beginning of 2005.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/10/31/news/newsmakers/fortune_rumsfeld/?cnn=yes

 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
73,189
34,517
136
If SEA farmers would be willing to separate their swine from their fowl and separate both from their living quarters then most of the disease transmission problems would go away.

As for what to do in the US, I think our culture has changed so much since the last epidemic that we're going to be hosed in the next. Folks tend to think "We don't get nasty diseases because we're good Americans", not "We don't get these diseases because we spent trillions on water and sewer infrastructure and public health measures". This attitude is seen on the part of parents who won't get their children immunized.