Chevy Volt: Remember this piece of crap car all over the media?

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LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
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Why do you say that? I like these reports of Volt owners essentially putting an end to gas station visits during their daily commute and instead charging overnight in their garage. I also like the idea of having a backup gasoline generator just in case. Such features have utility in terms of time, convenience and versatility to my current driving situation.

If priced as "options" in a generic car, the value of such features for different types of users would be debated, even in terms of convenience alone. In the Volt though, the starting point seems to be a presumption that convenience has no utility. Why? Frankly I think it is some sort of non-automotive ideology creeping into the debate.

Putting a near end to gas station visits with a Volt does not make economic sense when the cost of a Cruze/Focus/Fiesta/Versa is considered. The Volt costs too much in comparison. So, it only makes sense to buy it if you simply want it or think it's cool and trendy and can afford to buy based on that.

Not sure what you mean by "backup generator". It's not really a backup generator. For the range of the vehicle, it's the primary means of power and it does not recharge the vehicle battery, of course. The only way to recharge the battery is to plug the vehicle in.
 

rolodomo

Senior member
Mar 19, 2004
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Putting a near end to gas station visits with a Volt does not make economic sense when the cost of a Cruze/Focus/Fiesta/Versa is considered. The Volt costs too much in comparison. So, it only makes sense to buy it if you simply want it or think it's cool and trendy and can afford to buy based on that.

I'm glad you think I'm trendy, but I value putting a near end to gas station visits more highly than you do in terms of time savings and convenience specifically (not in a more generic economic sense).

Not sure what you mean by "backup generator". It's not really a backup generator. For the range of the vehicle, it's the primary means of power and it does not recharge the vehicle battery, of course..

Not sure what you mean by "it does not recharge the vehicle battery," the generator recharges the battery sufficient to prevent charge depletion (extend range) of course. It is also a "backup" generator, why would someone buy a Volt if they expected to primarily rely on the gas-powered generator? If you think that's the primary way to drive the Volt, I can see why you recommend the Fiesta. ;)
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
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I'm glad you think I'm trendy, but I value putting a near end to gas station visits more highly than you do in terms of time savings and convenience specifically (not in a more generic economic sense).



Not sure what you mean by "it does not recharge the vehicle battery," the generator recharges the battery sufficient to prevent charge depletion (extend range) of course. It is also a "backup" generator, why would someone buy a Volt if they expected to primarily rely on the gas-powered generator? If you think that's the primary way to drive the Volt, I can see why you recommend the Fiesta. ;)

I think you know exactly what I mean. :D
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
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BTW, I still want my long campaigned for button in the Volt to allow the generator to top up the battery, so I can arrive after a long trip with a fully charged battery to run around town. :D
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
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Not sure what you mean by "backup generator". It's not really a backup generator. For the range of the vehicle, it's the primary means of power and it does not recharge the vehicle battery, of course. The only way to recharge the battery is to plug the vehicle in.
Are you sure? That would be pretty retarded. Being able to recharge the batteries while moving is why the Prius is such an interesting and useful piece of technology. Just add a wall plug and it would be even better.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
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Are you sure? That would be pretty retarded. Being able to recharge the batteries while moving is why the Prius is such an interesting and useful piece of technology. Just add a wall plug and it would be even better.

GM wants the batteries recharged fom the grid and not from fossil fuels, which is okay with me for most of the time.

I just wanted the option to have the genset top up the battery in some situations that would be convenient for me or safer for me.

It seems odd that if you run out of gasoline in the Volt, your battery is also depleted, but that is the intended design.

I'm sure the aftermarket is already hot and heavy into Volt tweaking and customizing.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
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I just wanted the option to have the genset top up the battery in some situations that would be convenient for me or safer for me.
That was the original plan. Cars like the Civic hybrid or the Prius are "parallel" hybrids because both the gas engine and the electric motor can operate independently of each other. The volt was something totally different; it's more like a train. It was supposed to be a series hybrid. 100% of the power to the wheels should come from the electric motor, and the motor is supplied by batteries which can be charged with the gen set or by plugging it in.

We had a thread about this a while back. GM discovered that gas-only without going through the generator was more efficient when traveling faster than a certain speed, so it was changed to a parallel hybrid just like the Prius.


I still think my lawn mower engine idea would work great. The car would have a switch that toggles between maximum efficiency and maximum distance. Supposing the battery is intended the operate between 20% and 80% charge, efficiency mode would turn on the generator when it hits 20% and it would be expected that the rest of the power comes from plugging it into the wall. In maximum distance mode, it would run the generator full throttle in an attempt to keep the battery as close to 80% as possible. The little lawn mower engine wouldn't be enough to charge it as fast as it's draining when it's on the highway at full speed, so it would probably need to stop every few hundred miles and charge up for a few minutes.
 
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MikeMike

Lifer
Feb 6, 2000
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just remember LTC was the guy who hates GM for the bailouts, take everything he says with a grain of salt about his 'government motors'
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
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LTC is still the guy who hates GM and Chrysler for the bailouts. They are making much better cars now, though.

I didn't know it was a secret.
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
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BTW, I still want my long campaigned for button in the Volt to allow the generator to top up the battery, so I can arrive after a long trip with a fully charged battery to run around town. :D

They did, it's called "Mountain mode" and its used to charge up the batteries enough that you have some battery power in reserve to climb up hills a bit faster.
 

MikeMike

Lifer
Feb 6, 2000
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They did, it's called "Mountain mode" and its used to charge up the batteries enough that you have some battery power in reserve to climb up hills a bit faster.

yup...

and there is sport mode... which makes the throttle more reactive... and it runs solely on electricity for 25-50 miles a charge... it's a halo car with a sticker to match...
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
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They did, it's called "Mountain mode" and its used to charge up the batteries enough that you have some battery power in reserve to climb up hills a bit faster.

No, we've discussed mountain mode before. That certainly isn't it.
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
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No, we've discussed mountain mode before. That certainly isn't it.

So a mode where you push the button and have the engine charge back up the battery isn't what you're talking about? :hmm: It's not called "charge up my battery so I can turn off the gas engine mode" but you can trick the car into doing just that.

You've said this whole thing multiple times but still haven't given a good reason what advantage you could possibly get from charging up. It can't possibly save you any gas but could realistically cause you to waste gas. So far your argument is just "Because I want to". That right there is why Chevy DIDN'T include some specifically to recharge the battery. People in general are idiots so there are plenty that would push that button as soon as the battery got low. They'd end up rolling in to their driveway with a full battery and then complain why their gas mileage sucked. The easiest way to keep people from doing something stupid like that is to remove the option for them to do that.

Anyways, the whole point is moot. It's pretty clear you're never going to buy the car, with or without the "charge up my battery" button.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
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Mountain Mode only raises the minimum soc to around 45%.

Mountain Mode is there because the genset cannot provide enough power to climb steep or long grades.

Mountain Mode was added to address the grade climbing deficiency discovered in testing.

I'm sure the aftermarket will provide the option for the Volt to charge it's battery to full if GM doesn't.

For all we know, there may be a way to do it that isn't public. In fact, I think it's likely. It's clear that you can adjust how much the genset charges the battery. It's only a small step to adjust it further.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
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GM wants the batteries recharged fom the grid and not from fossil fuels, which is okay with me for most of the time.

I just wanted the option to have the genset top up the battery in some situations that would be convenient for me or safer for me.

It seems odd that if you run out of gasoline in the Volt, your battery is also depleted, but that is the intended design.

I'm sure the aftermarket is already hot and heavy into Volt tweaking and customizing.

makes no sense. it is less efficient to do that, you are converting chemical energy to mechanical back to battery power which will be converted back to mechanical, each step wastes, what is the point of that? green bullsh*t mode button? its not odd at all, if you run out of battery you travel on gas until you can get a cheap efficient charge source..from the wall.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
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makes no sense. it is less efficient to do that, you are converting chemical energy to mechanical back to battery power which will be converted back to mechanical, each step wastes, what is the point of that? green bullsh*t mode button? its not odd at all, if you run out of battery you travel on gas until you can get a cheap efficient charge source..from the wall.
The Toyota Prius works exactly like the bolded part yet it seems to be remarkably efficient. The Prius has about the same power as a Yaris and it weighs as much as a Camry, but the gas mileage is twice as good as either of those.

Ideally you'll want to charge the batteries from the grid, but running like a Toyota Prius would be nice when grid power is not available.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
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makes no sense. it is less efficient to do that, you are converting chemical energy to mechanical back to battery power which will be converted back to mechanical, each step wastes, what is the point of that? green bullsh*t mode button? its not odd at all, if you run out of battery you travel on gas until you can get a cheap efficient charge source..from the wall.

Certainly it's less efficient. That's why it would only be an option, and not a mode the car used all the time. I would only use it if I were going to a place where I was uncertain of the charging facilities, for example. Like a mountain cabin with no electricity. It would be convenient to arrive with a charged battery and not have to run the ICE in the woods.
 

MikeMike

Lifer
Feb 6, 2000
45,885
66
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The Toyota Prius works exactly like the bolded NOpart yet it seems to be remarkably efficient. The Prius has about the same power as a Yaris and it weighs as much as a Camryweighs more than the Camry..., but the gas mileage is twice as good as either of those50 (combined) is not 2x 26 nor 2x 30 (camry/yaris combined).

Ideally you'll want to charge the batteries from the grid, but running like a Toyota Prius would be nice when grid power is not available.what, you mean running both the gas, and battery at speeds above 5mph???

ugh
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
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Prius rules all. You are all jealous you don't own a Prius. 0-60 in 9 minutes flat.

yaris = 29mpg
prius = 51mpg which is more than 2x greater than 29mpg
 

MikeMike

Lifer
Feb 6, 2000
45,885
66
91
Prius rules all. You are all jealous you don't own a Prius. 0-60 in 9 minutes flat.

yaris = 29mpg
prius = 51mpg which is more than 2x greater than 29mpg

quoted for LAUGHS.

9 + 9 =18
20 + 20 = 40
40 + 18 = 58

you need to learn everything.

not to mention, outside of completely terrible math skills, you also used the City value of MPG... which highly favors the Prius... If we use COMBINED, you get 32 for the Yaris and 50 for the Prius... which i guess with your math is double...
 
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Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
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The last few posts confused the hell out of me. Anyway, the Prius does put some gasoline converted straight into the battery. I assume this is to take advantage of the greater efficiency of an engine when running at higher throttle. A regular car at moderate throttle produces only moderate power from the engine but a Prius can allow the engine to run harder without making the car speed up and put that extra power into the battery.

There's actually very little about this online so I can't confirm that's the reason the Prius does this. If it does, I imagine the Volt also does it, but just in short periods of time, since the Gm-touted goal is to allow batteries to charge from grid, not from gas (which is the most efficient way).

I doubt there is much after market for the Volt yet considering it hasn't even sold 3000 units.
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
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Certainly it's less efficient. That's why it would only be an option, and not a mode the car used all the time. I would only use it if I were going to a place where I was uncertain of the charging facilities, for example. Like a mountain cabin with no electricity. It would be convenient to arrive with a charged battery and not have to run the ICE in the woods.

You really think that this is a real concern that people have? Nobody will care.
 

PlasmaBomb

Lifer
Nov 19, 2004
11,636
2
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Prius rules all. You are all jealous you don't own a Prius. 0-60 in 9 minutes flat.

yaris = 29mpg
prius = 51mpg which is more than 2x greater than 29mpg

Epic_Ultimate_Facepalm_of_Epicness.jpg


You earned the big one...

/facepalm.