Chevy Volt: Remember this piece of crap car all over the media?

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desy

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2000
5,442
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Unless you want something unique and the volt delivers on that
who buys smarts or mini's or cubes or any of the other odd cars out there?
As batteries get cheaper the volt will come down already it started out the battery pack was 12 G now down to 8G
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
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Sure, except the Volt is much more expensive than better driving similar alternatives.

It's not like it's a Vette or Mustang GT, etc., that you spend too much on in a midlife crisis.

There are people that will buy it because they think it's cool, which is just as valid as people that buy corvettes and mustangs who just use it to drive to work and back. Some people will like it because it's a new gizmo that's different than anything else. It may not make sense but that doesn't mean they won't want to buy it.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
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There are people that will buy it because they think it's cool, which is just as valid as people that buy corvettes and mustangs who just use it to drive to work and back. Some people will like it because it's a new gizmo that's different than anything else. It may not make sense but that doesn't mean they won't want to buy it.

Sure, I've said that about a hundred times. It's the only real reason for an individual to buy one. They just want it.

That will probably be most of it's sales, along with corporate and government purchases. We know that GE has already agreed to buy a shitload of them starting this year. 12K, I believe.

So, we will have to be careful with sales numbers.
 

rolodomo

Senior member
Mar 19, 2004
269
9
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There are people that will buy it because they think it's cool, which is just as valid as people that buy corvettes and mustangs who just use it to drive to work and back. Some people will like it because it's a new gizmo that's different than anything else. It may not make sense but that doesn't mean they won't want to buy it.

What has me most interested in this car is the ability to essentially axe trips to the gas station. Not because I want to avoid the price at the pump, but the gas stations along my commute route are messed up (I live in an urban area though). I don't let the tank level get too low, so that just compounds the problem (basically a station visit every week).

The thought of just plugging the car into my garage receptacle overnight sounds so much simpler. That is actually worth a price premium (Volt sale price) to me in terms of time and convenience.

Like an optional feature -- the "avoid gas station during rush-hour commute" option. I'm not sure it worth the current price premium, but personally I would highly value it over the lifetime of the car.

I'll look at next year's plug-in Prius for the same reason.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
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Everything you wanted to know about the volt but were afraid to ask.
http://www.sandyblogs.com/techlink/Dec 2010 Techlink F.pdf

The greatest problem with the volt is not the volt, it is the constant turn over of upper management at gm and the lack of a long term strategic energy policy at the federal level.

Sorry but somethings require long term planning, thinking and patience, something that today's generation in America lacks since we want immediate profits and results.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
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GM: Chevy Volt Owners Averaging 1,000 Miles Between Gas Stops

One owner has averaged 547 mpg by relying more on the battery pack for propulsion

One of the vehicles that has made one of the biggest splashes in the hybrid and EV market is the Chevrolet Volt. The Volt is an extended range electric vehicle which uses the gasoline motor to charge the battery inside the car for longer range once it can’t go on electric power alone.

One of the things that Chevrolet has been a bit quiet on is exactly how far the vehicle can drive on a tank full of fuel when the batteries go dead on their own. To show just how far the Volt can drive on a tank of fuel, GM has called on some owners of the Chevy Volt to tell just how long they have been driving on a tank and it's a long way.

“Volt owners drove an average of 800 miles between fill-ups since the Volt launched in December, and in March they averaged 1,000 miles,” said Cristi Landy, Volt marketing director. “When the majority of miles driven are electrically, gas usage decreases significantly.”

When you consider that the Volt holds roughly nine gallons of fuel, the fact that GM claims the average Volt driver gets 800 miles between fill ups is even more impressive. That would work out to fuel economy in the area of 122 miles per gallon. Volt owners also note they only hit the gas station about once per month.

While Volt owners may not be sucking down as much dyno-juice as other vehicles, they are in turn tapping into the electrical grid to recharge the battery pack on a regular basis. For consumers with a daily commute of less than 40 miles (the Volt's maximum battery-only range), a nightly recharge is all it takes to keep the gasoline engine from firing up.

“I am surprised how infrequently I go to the gas station. It’s become a game to achieve as many miles as I can in EV mode,” said Steve Wojtanek, a Volt buyer in Boca Raton, Florida. “I have made it my goal to drive as efficiently as possible and I am seeing the results, with more than 3,417 miles under my belt – of which 2,225 are EV miles.” A Volt owner since December, Wojtanek is averaging 122 miles per gallon and visiting the gas station about once a month.

Another Volt owner, Gary Davis said, "On April 11, I had to buy gas for the first time since filling up on January 9. In my Volt I’ve driven 4,600 miles on 8.4 gallons of gas. That’s an impressive 547 mpg that I am achieving with my Volt."

GM cites the total driving range of the Volt as 379 miles on a tank. The typical all electric driving range on the vehicle is 25-50 miles. Davis would have to be driving less than the 25-50 miles most days to rack up the kind of fuel economy he is reporting. Some Volt dealers were asking as much as $25,000 over MSRP for the Volt when it launched.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
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Well, that's misleading, but anyway theoretically you could go much farther than these examples without "filling up" the Volt.

If you remove the software that runs the engine once in a while, you might go a whole year without burning any gasoline if you wanted.

They also haven't factored in the cost of generating the electricity for all those recharges.

We would also expect the brand new batteries to beat the averages for range.

Also, the more you cycle the battery pack, the less life it will have, in theory.

It seems like these folks wanted an all-electric car, instead of the Volt, because that's the way they are using the Volt.
 

thedarkwolf

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 1999
9,005
111
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It seems like these folks wanted an all-electric car, instead of the Volt, because that's the way they are using the Volt.

Isn't that the whole point of the car? The biggest problem with an electric car is you need a gas car for those longer trips. This takes care of that problem.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
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Well, that's misleading, but anyway theoretically you could go much farther than these examples without "filling up" the Volt.

If you remove the software that runs the engine once in a while, you might go a whole year without burning any gasoline if you wanted.

They also haven't factored in the cost of generating the electricity for all those recharges.

We would also expect the brand new batteries to beat the averages for range.

Also, the more you cycle the battery pack, the less life it will have, in theory.

It seems like these folks wanted an all-electric car, instead of the Volt, because that's the way they are using the Volt.
missing the point, if your daily commute is generally below the battery range that is all that matters. the cost of generating electricity for all those charges is really neglidgable compared to 4 dollar a gallon gas. you don't have to worry that much about the volt battery cycle, it has a cooled battery that has a decent chunk kept in reserve to preserve the lifespan and of course it doesn't have the problem of fast charge deteriorating lifespan, since it cant do that.
 

angry hampster

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2007
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www.lexaphoto.com
Just thinking about how perfect a car like the Volt would be for me. Would I pay $32k for it? No..but on my 50mi round-trip commute, it sure would be nice to only use a few drops of gas per day.

I'd considered looking into the Nissan Leaf, but I travel a lot for my second job and have relatives across the country.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
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missing the point, if your daily commute is generally below the battery range that is all that matters. the cost of generating electricity for all those charges is really neglidgable compared to 4 dollar a gallon gas. you don't have to worry that much about the volt battery cycle, it has a cooled battery that has a decent chunk kept in reserve to preserve the lifespan and of course it doesn't have the problem of fast charge deteriorating lifespan, since it cant do that.

If your daily commute doesn't require the engine, then why pay for it? It's a heck of an extra expense and a lot of weight.

What would an electric only Volt cost, with the same battery pack?

How far would it go in local commuting without the weight of the ~300 pounds of engine and assorted gear?

I would offer this if I were GM...especially in light of the number of folks who apparently actually aren't using the engine.
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
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If your daily commute doesn't require the engine, then why pay for it? It's a heck of an extra expense and a lot of weight.

What would an electric only Volt cost, with the same battery pack?

How far would it go in local commuting without the weight of the ~300 pounds of engine and assorted gear?

I would offer this if I were GM...especially in light of the number of folks who apparently actually aren't using the engine.

Again, missing the point. Just because your daily commute doesn't exceed the battery range doesn't mean that you don't occasionally need to go farther. For example, my commute is less than 25 miles a day but a time or two a month I'll go >100 miles in a day. An all electric with no backup would leave me stranded whereas the volt just would kick on the gas engine.
 

catilley1092

Member
Mar 28, 2011
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The problem with the Volt (and other electric cars) will happen when mass production takes place. Our power grids are dependent upon running less at night, where they have a chance to cool. Power grids are very costly to build. No one wants nukes in their backyard to help with supplying power.

Unless this issue is corrected, we may be facing brownouts/blackouts when these cars are mass produced.

Plus, the car is only in it's first year or so of release. Remember another Chevy from 40 years ago that started with "V"? It was also considered a wonder car for it's time. For GM's sake, I hope that the Volt is a success. Their fate depends solely on it.

Cat
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
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Again, missing the point. Just because your daily commute doesn't exceed the battery range doesn't mean that you don't occasionally need to go farther. For example, my commute is less than 25 miles a day but a time or two a month I'll go >100 miles in a day. An all electric with no backup would leave me stranded whereas the volt just would kick on the gas engine.

I'm not missing any points.

In the scenario described, I'd probably have a second bigger car for the rare long trip with luggage and relatives for a cruise in more comfort. Possibly a hybrid. That way, my most often used daily driver doesn't have to carry around the extra weight of an unnecessary engine, wasting resources.

Of course, the Volt makes no sense in your scenario anyway. Much better to buy a Focus or Cruze, which saves you a boatload of cash, and will do the job just fine, wherever you need to go.

Looks like a 2012 Versa is going to be less than 1/3 the cost of the Volt, for example. Just the thing for local runabouts and the occasional long trip.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
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you don't have to worry that much about the volt battery cycle, it has a cooled battery that has a decent chunk kept in reserve to preserve the lifespan and of course it doesn't have the problem of fast charge deteriorating lifespan,
Disagree. I see no reason not to be concerned about the Volt battery. Like ANY battery it WILL lose capacity over its lifespan.

The Nissan Leaf--out of Nissan's mouth no less--aims for 80% battery capacity after five years. It also says for best longevity to not charge about 80%. You can read this on the Leaf site. So now the Leaf's "100 mile range" after five years, and still doing the 80% charge is only 64 miles. And the Volt in fact could go through more charge/discharge cycles depending on how you use it since its EV range is much less.

I have every confidence that the range of an average Volt in five years will be measurably less than that at new. Its probable saving grace is that unlike in the past, some of the newer lithium chemistries deliver near-new power even as their lifespan ages; they simply give it up for less time, so the Volt may not have a meaningful reduction in power, just in range.

And before comparisons are made to the Prius, which now has a decade+ history of proving its batteries performing admirably for many years, the Prius uses only a small portion of the battery's capacity at any time and has a sufficient buffer built into that when new so that even as the battery itself begins to degrade the general performance and mileage is not impacted. But with the Leaf & Volt the entire battery must be used to deliver range that is told to the driver as soon as he's behind the wheel.
What would an electric only Volt cost, with the same battery pack?
With its range in some conditions being as low as 25 miles on a full charge it would be the Leaf's range anxiety problem times a million. They'd have to fill the thing with more battery capacity and turn it into an EV. Then it would be directly competing with the Leaf, a five seater, and I frankly have no reason to believe the same-range Volt wouldn't cost a lot more.
Our power grids are dependent upon running less at night, where they have a chance to cool.
I've never heard this before. I think EV cars are perfect as they charge at night when demand is lower.

The plug in Prius has a little less than half the EV range of the Volt but trounces it on mileage thereafter, and is larger, and is going to cost substantially less. It should be out spring of 2012. It will be hard to sell the Volt against it in my opinion.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
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Well, an electric-only Volt should weigh a lot less, probably 400 pounds less when you consider the engine and everything that goes with it. You could also use 80% of the battery capacity instead of the current ~60%. It could have much greater range.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/20/autos/ev_volt/index.htm

http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/09/2...ld-give-the-volt-leaf-some-green-competition/

Looks like they have used the weight savings to put a much bigger battery in, which I didn't expect, but GM is working out the Cruze EV.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
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Well, an electric-only Volt should weigh a lot less, probably 400 pounds less when you consider the engine and everything that goes with it. You could also use 80% of the battery capacity instead of the current ~60%. It could have much greater range.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/20/autos/ev_volt/index.htm

http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/09/2...ld-give-the-volt-leaf-some-green-competition/

Looks like they have used the weight savings to put a much bigger battery in, which I didn't expect, but GM is working out the Cruze EV.
"While the vehicle will likely steal some sales away from the Volt, the two vehicles are simply different beasts and should appeal to a different demographic." Disagree with that big time. I didn't know about the cruze EV, though. Its price will be the determining factor of merit.
 

thedarkwolf

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 1999
9,005
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quit talking about making sense. Of coarse it doesn't make sense to buy it. Neither does spending $200k on a lambo or buying 5k sq-ft house for 2 people to live in. They do so because they want too and can afford too. The majority of people that buy a volt wouldn't drive a versa because that wouldn't impress their neighbor. The volt allows them to show off and talk about how green they are while their family of 2 is living in that 5k sq-ft house.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
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quit talking about making sense. Of coarse it doesn't make sense to buy it. Neither does spending $200k on a lambo or buying 5k sq-ft house for 2 people to live in. They do so because they want too and can afford too. The majority of people that buy a volt wouldn't drive a versa because that wouldn't impress their neighbor. The volt allows them to show off and talk about how green they are while their family of 2 is living in that 5k sq-ft house.

We've already gone over that a dozen times.

Quit talking about rich people...who have options... :D

The only reason that makes sense to buy a Volt is "I want one. It's cool!". :D

For a regular middle class Joe looking for a DD to get to work and back, the Volt makes no economic sense.

For me, the Volt would be a good fit, but to me personally, a Cruze or Focus makes much more sense economically and as a vehicle for me.

The price of gas could change all that, of course.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
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How far would it go in local commuting without the weight of the ~300 pounds of engine and assorted gear?

Wouldn't make much difference. When I drove to work, most driving was just me. Now that I don't drive to work, much of my driving includes having friends in the car which easily adds 300 pounds of extra ass to haul around. There has been no significant change in gas mileage.
For apples to oranges comparison, a toyota camry with 170hp weighs several hundred pounds more than a corolla with 130hp, but the gas mileage is only about 10% worse.


I guess they could always take out the car engine and just use a cheap lawn mower engine. 20hp motor running full throttle all the time would add quite a bit of driving distance if you were planning on making a longer trip. Might bring the cost down slightly....
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
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Wouldn't make much difference. When I drove to work, most driving was just me. Now that I don't drive to work, much of my driving includes having friends in the car which easily adds 300 pounds of extra ass to haul around. There has been no significant change in gas mileage.
For apples to oranges comparison, a toyota camry with 170hp weighs several hundred pounds more than a corolla with 130hp, but the gas mileage is only about 10% worse.


I guess they could always take out the car engine and just use a cheap lawn mower engine. 20hp motor running full throttle all the time would add quite a bit of driving distance if you were planning on making a longer trip. Might bring the cost down slightly....

On the highway there'd be little effect, of course. You are only accelerating the extra weight once.

In the city with stop and go, the weight should show an effect, which is why I said "local commuting".

22 for the 2.5L Camry vs 28 for the 1.8L Corolla, since you used those. Large difference.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
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On the highway there'd be little effect, of course. You are only accelerating the extra weight once.

In the city with stop and go, the weight should show an effect, which is why I said "local commuting".

22 for the 2.5L Camry vs 28 for the 1.8L Corolla, since you used those. Large difference.
Alright that's fair enough. How about the 2.5L corolla against the 2.5L camry then? Both get 22 city ;)

It's really hard to compare. The 2.5L small car is "sport tuned" and redline is over 7k but the 2.5L midsize car is a ghetto family car that you only buy when you can't afford the V6. I would say it's a wash. Taking 300 pounds out of the Volt won't change it by much. That's still only about 10% of the car's weight.
 

rolodomo

Senior member
Mar 19, 2004
269
9
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The only reason that makes sense to buy a Volt is "I want one. It's cool!". :D

Why do you say that? I like these reports of Volt owners essentially putting an end to gas station visits during their daily commute and instead charging overnight in their garage. I also like the idea of having a backup gasoline generator just in case. Such features have utility in terms of time, convenience and versatility to my current driving situation.

If priced as "options" in a generic car, the value of such features for different types of users would be debated, even in terms of convenience alone. In the Volt though, the starting point seems to be a presumption that convenience has no utility. Why? Frankly I think it is some sort of non-automotive ideology creeping into the debate.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
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Alright that's fair enough. How about the 2.5L corolla against the 2.5L camry then? Both get 22 city ;)

It's really hard to compare. The 2.5L small car is "sport tuned" and redline is over 7k but the 2.5L midsize car is a ghetto family car that you only buy when you can't afford the V6. I would say it's a wash. Taking 300 pounds out of the Volt won't change it by much. That's still only about 10% of the car's weight.

That's cool, except for the fact that there is no 2.5L Corolla...
 

rolodomo

Senior member
Mar 19, 2004
269
9
81
Disagree. I see no reason not to be concerned about the Volt battery. Like ANY battery it WILL lose capacity over its lifespan.

Anything more than a 30% capacity loss (pro-rated over time) is covered by the 8 year/100K warranty, correct?

The plug in Prius has a little less than half the EV range of the Volt but trounces it on mileage thereafter, and is larger, and is going to cost substantially less. It should be out spring of 2012. It will be hard to sell the Volt against it in my opinion.

I'm thinking about buying one, although half the EV range is a big deal to me (I hope they can bump it up). Very proven technology with some minor tweaks for plug-in charging.