Chevy Bolt

[RearAdmiral]

I read a couple articles today on the prototype reveal of the Bolt. Honestly I'm pretty excited for it. I think it's a very fun time for car and tech. lovers. Yay competition!

Insane gas prices may have pushed electric cars into the limelight and now gas needs to be cheap to try to stave off electric cars. If you want a gas car you save, if you want an electric car you put up more capital and save some on recurring costs.


http://jalopnik.com/the-chevrolet-bolt-is-exactly-what-tesla-motors-wanted-1751470440

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/01/07/chevy-bolt-price-37500-before-rebates/

 

[tweakmonkey]

I love the price and range. Really bummed the concept looked much better. Production version looks boring and like everything else alresdy available. Oh well.

 

[bigi]

I dig it. Let's see what Tesla III and 2017 Leaf bring.

 

[KentState]

$30k (after tax break) is a heck of a lot to pay for a dinky car. Pay half that much and you could buy gas for the next 15 years.

 

[ultimatebob]

$30k (after tax break) is a heck of a lot to pay for a dinky car. Pay half that much and you could buy gas for the next 15 years.

Yeah, this car makes no damn sense economically with gas currently at $2 a gallon. If it gets back up to $4 a gallon, maybe I would consider buying one.

 

[Topweasel]

Yeah, this car makes no damn sense economically with gas currently at $2 a gallon. If it gets back up to $4 a gallon, maybe I would consider buying one.

Even then you are talking about almost double the cost of the Sonic/Spark its based off of.

This is the problem with all of the hybrid and all electric cars. The Leaf is the most reasonable of them all but as a money saver they all suck. Specially taking an already practically 40MPG car and doubling its cost. It would take decades to recoup that money in fuel savings*.

It's also only slightly less expensive than the Volt which honestly is probably a better choice. Great day to day driving on electric with unlimited range on gas and is larger as well. I guess for the most part charging stations are getting ubiquitous enough but it still means a 30 minute wait for what is a 2 minute job.

*If Electricity was free and gas was $4 it would take 116k miles to recoup the cost. So anything in between that would just increase the time and miles driven before you break even. I did the math a very very very conservitive 30mpg for the Spark/Sonic source at a 15k difference between the vehicles.

 

[tweakmonkey]

Different appeal to me. I'd pay more for an ev for the other benefits. It's quieter, the power curve is great, it's comfy and more relaxing for commuting, I can use the commuter lane here by myself (huge), I don't ever have to stop for gas and can charge at home. Oh and there's almost zero maintenance. You guys just don't get it. Nobody would cross shop this with a 15k econobox. It's probably WAY nicer to drive for a zillion reasons and it's not all about the money.

 

[Topweasel]

Different appeal to me. I'd pay more for an ev for the other benefits. It's quieter, the power curve is great, it's comfy and more relaxing for commuting, I can use the commuter lane here by myself (huge), I don't ever have to stop for gas and can charge at home. Oh and there's almost zero maintenance. You guys just don't get it. Nobody would cross shop this with a 15k econobox. It's probably WAY nicer to drive for a zillion reasons and it's not all about the money.

In theory you're right. But its an econobox with 15k in extra electronics and batteries not a 30k car. So don't expect anything other than an econobox. It just means that with less engine noise you will hear the squeaks and road noise more.

 

[tweakmonkey]

Who says so? Have you driven one extensively and played with all the features?

Even so, if I'm gonna buy an econobox for 15k, I'd rather spend 30k on an EV with 200 mile range. And with the leases and deals there will be, it'll be even cheaper. So that might not appeal to you- Got it. You can keep waiting for one that does... this will be an early adopter car and massive for EVs. Where I live, 1000s of the crappy 80-mile range Fiat 500e, Leaf and Smarts are on the road. These guys will all want to upgrade to something like the Bolt and it's MUCH more appealing to the average driver.

 

[Topweasel]

Who says so? Have you driven one extensively and played with all the features?

Even so, if I'm gonna buy an econobox for 15k, I'd rather spend 30k on an EV with 200 mile range. And with the leases and deals there will be, it'll be even cheaper. So that might not appeal to you- Got it. You can keep waiting for one that does... this will be an early adopter car and massive for EVs. Where I live, 1000s of the crappy 80-mile range Fiat 500e, Leaf and Smarts are on the road. These guys will all want to upgrade to something like the Bolt and it's MUCH more appealing to the average driver.

I guess. For the guys driving around in 500's and Leafs this maybe up their alley, larger than the 500 and probably larger than a Leaf. I am just saying that "Nobody would cross shop this with a 15k econobox". It is the econobox and you even stated "gas currently at $2 a gallon. If it gets back up to $4 a gallon, maybe I would consider buying one." So economy and fuel costs plays a part in your decision. Maybe GM built this to feel like a Ma Spark libu but smaller with an EV engine and great range. But till otherwise told itswith an EV engine. So it's an econobox with econobox savings at well equiped Midsize, or stripper full size pricing. A price chasm big enough that even with free electricity, with a more Midsize look at fuel usage, and double the cost of fuel. It would still take 115k miles before actually being cheaper than the econobox.

 

[core2slow]

I wont touch them until they reach Civic prices w/o incentives.

 

[tweakmonkey]

you even stated "gas currently at $2 a gallon. If it gets back up to $4 a gallon, maybe I would consider buying one." So economy and fuel costs plays a part in your decision.

I didn't write that. I was thinking of buying one even if gas was $1/gallon. Why? Because it goes further than I'd never need on a daily charge and the next closest car that can do that is a $80k Tesla. Sounds like a bargain to me. Plus it's way smaller so it's easier to park, actually fits in my garage, and it's probably more fun to drive.

It would still take 115k miles before actually being cheaper than the econobox.

But why does it HAVE to be cheaper? It's probably faster, less maintenance, you can 'refill' at home (personally I have to stop for gas 1-2x every week on my drive home, when I'd rather be home), I could go in the carpool lane, etc. etc. For many people there are other factors involved. Like the ones I've mentioned a few times in this thread and in the next post. And how long would you keep the econobox? 115k? Then it's cheaper anyway, right?

Also the Fiat 500e, BMW i3s, Nissan Leafs and other cars were nearly given away with crazy good lease deals. Sure someone's gonna have to pay for that somehow, but if you could lease a Bolt for example for $149/month with no money down for 24 months, why wouldn't you?

 

[tweakmonkey]

I wont touch them until they reach Civic prices w/o incentives.

Why? If (assuming) it's the same build quality as a Civic, why wouldn't you touch one if it's cheaper (since with incentives, it would be), it requires nearly zero maintenance, (no oil changes, coolant flushes, alternators etc), it's faster, and it never requires fuel, that will surely cost you $5k in the next 5 years, maybe 10k? Shouldn't it still be a good deal if it's 5-10k more? Or is 200 miles in a single trip not good enough range? Just trying to figure this out. Have you ever driven an electric car?

 

[JulesMaximus]

I like it. Great commuter car. :thumbsup:

Love to see some real world driving range results though.

 

[YBS1]

I think it's awesome, and IMO stayed pretty close to the concept for a production car. I'll likely get one unless I cave before then and get an AWD Trax. I love my Sonic RS, and the Trax is basically a micro SUV version of the Sonic so the addition of AWD would be nice.

 

[WackyDan]

I dig it. Let's see what Tesla III and 2017 Leaf bring.

Same... I'm putting a deposit on the Tesla III as long as it fits in the mid sized sedan class and not compact car like this Bolt is.

I think the Tesla III will likely be mid sized and that alone will have a shit load more value to me at the same cost.

Plus... The Bolt is a GM product. That alone makes me hate it. Why? Because I already own a GM product and drive the new ones on a regular basis as rentals. GM could have done better. My bets are Tesla will.

 

[bigi]

$30k (after tax break) is a heck of a lot to pay for a dinky car. Pay half that much and you could buy gas for the next 15 years.

$ consideration only?

I hate oil changes. I hate gas as it is a poison. I hate exhaust work and fumes. I hate tranny ATF changes - hope most EVs don't have AT.

I super hate gas stations. I wanna plug in at night and ride quietly.

The max torque from 0 RPM makes very nice driving experience.

For $30K I'd get it instantly.

 

[bigi]

...
Plus... The Bolt is a GM product. That alone makes me hate it. Why? Because I already own a GM product and drive the new ones on a regular basis as rentals. GM could have done better. My bets are Tesla will.

Point taken. GM rides have their place.

To be honest I think we have to give GM a credit with trying at least.

Volt is very good. Bolt looks like a great first 'real' EV deal. If they can get claimed 200eMPG, it will be a good sell.

Once the Leaf hits x2 its current range ~160 eMPG it will sell fine.

I do hope that Tesla III will be the most cool offering of those.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/...SyiU196Brkb4kVkHspR1XUk8FerRNmZdH1N1j63RBR6hQ
The Chevy Bolt is a direct result of asking people what they want in a car. Another large company with no vision, color me surprised.

 

[tweakmonkey]

I think it's awesome, and IMO stayed pretty close to the concept for a production car.

I don't think so -

The concept had a sleek chop-top look, better shaped windows and proportions (and that rear tear drop look), a slim front grill and lights (vs big cheap looking one), much uglier mirrors, less sleek wheels (the concept had covers over the spokes), chrome trim in the wrong places (vs the right places), and overall just a much more boring appearance. The doors were molded very nicely on the prototype and look boring/ugly/mismatched on the final version. Door handles, windshield, etc... all different.

The production model looks like every other Toyota Matrix etc. on the road. The prototype looked fun, bold, and special and IMO was clearly a better design. I imagine the original designer is embarassed about the final product compared to what he envisioned.

vs:

The little differences add up. The prototype looked like an awesome little toy car. The final one looks like an econobox / minivan / compact Hyundai in comparison. It's not bad now, just not good, great, or special at all.

 

[tweakmonkey]

Saw this today. Car and Driver tests the Prototype:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-chevrolet-bolt-prototype-drive-review

And this:

 

[Yuriman]

Just need my Insight's engine to hold out long enough for some wrecked Bolts to hit the scrapyards and prices to come down. 200HP electric motor in a car that weighs less than half, and has half the aerodynamic drag, would be pretty great.

 

[tweakmonkey]

Just need my Insight's engine to hold out long enough for some wrecked Bolts to hit the scrapyards and prices to come down. 200HP electric motor in a car that weighs less than half, and has half the aerodynamic drag, would be pretty great.

The Insight gas engine might last forever. The battery pack on the other hand...

Hell even an 80 mile EV drivetrain would be amazing in the Insight. It would have so much ridiculous torque for its weight, and since it's so aerodynamic it would probably go 120 miles on a charge.

 

[Yuriman]

The Insight gas engine might last forever. The battery pack on the other hand...

Hell even an 80 mile EV drivetrain would be amazing in the Insight. It would have so much ridiculous torque for its weight, and since it's so aerodynamic it would probably go 120 miles on a charge.

I just passed 210k miles, and compression is still perfect. It doesn't burn a drop of oil, transmission shifts smoothly, oil looks clean at 10k mile changes. I'm getting about 85mpg tanks lately, further suggesting it's still healthy. Battery is still strong after 16 years, and I'm under the impression I might get another 5-10 out of it if I take care of it. I know there are people with 4-600k miles on their factory engine in these cars, but I might still swap it out if I come across a good deal on EV parts - that, or buy a 2nd Insight for an EV conversion. It's such a great car, and I love driving it in the salt without having to worry about rust, but I'm excited by the electric options that are hitting the market.

 

[tweakmonkey]

Yep they are really great cars. I had mine for 7 years. My IMA battery started giving errors after 150k or so and was finally toast at 165k. My co-worker's also died at 170k (his was CVT). We didn't have a balance charger though. My other co-worker had one with 80k and the battery was way healthier. You could push it harder for longer. Also, once I replaced mine with new cells (which was only about $1100 back in 2010 or so?), the car was much better to drive. I actually drove it for about 5k with no IMA at all. It runs fine, it's just a bit slow due to the long gears. And no autostop