Chevy Bolt quick review

[Kaido]

Got to test-drive a new all-electric Bolt today (not to be confused with the Volt hybrid). Previous thread on the Tesla Model X & S:

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/model-s-model-x-quick-review.2500125/

Here are my thoughts on the 2017 Bolt:

Pros:

1. Chevy nailed it. Really great job all around. This is a solid electric vehicle. This feels like the first consumer EV ready for prime-time in the non-luxury price segment (i.e. not Tesla pricing), primarily due to the range but also due to the highly usable design.
2. Great styling. Looks really, really good in person, even the LT (base) model. Nice rims on both.
3. This is basically like a Honda Fit EV 2.0 - improvements all around.
4. 0 to 60 is "under 6.5 seconds". It's quite zippy. Made the tires chirp easily. Great torque, I made the passenger's heads bop the headrests once or twice. There is a catch regarding steering under power, which I'll touch on in the cons section.
5. Regen is excellent. You can make it very aggressive & it can come to a complete stop, which is awesome. It has a slightly odd assortment of regen controls. The heaviest is switching the car from D to L on the shifter (which turns up regen & disables creep mode) & then using the regen paddle behind the wheel to amplify the regen. If you're careful, you won't need to touch the brake pedal most of the time. I took it on some windy, hilly roads & on max regen, I was able to have it come to a complete stop both halfway up a hill & halfway down a hill. Cool.
6. Range is just so much fun...most EV's I've driven go about 80 miles. Seeing over 200 on the dash was just a good feeling if you've ever experienced range anxiety.
7. Virtually noiseless. The Fit EV has that Star Trek electric sound, but you really only hear it starting out in the Bolt.
8. Very planted. Had a similar feel to the Model X...just very solid on the ground, around curvy roads, etc. Low center of gravity. Heavy enough to take most of the lumps & bumps on bad roads.
9. The front seats slide back...forever. I am six feet tall & was able to slide the front seats back to the point where my toes could not touch the front at all. There is a catch here on the width that I'll touch on in the cons section.
10. Back seats are awesome! Stadium-style seating...you sit higher up than the driver & have a clear view out. Surprisingly roomy! Also, great driving in the back! It was probably the best back-seat driving experience I've ever had, come to think of it. Solid weight, sufficient room, sitting up a bit higher...I could handle being in the back seat of this car if needed.
11. Overall, for interior room & available rear storage space, it's just very well-designed. If I were in the market for a Tesla Model S & wasn't interested in AWD, Autopilot, or Ludicrous Mode, I would take the Bolt over the S (seriously). The bubble interior made it feel pretty room & not cramped at all. The S was a tad too snug for my tastes...not quite Corvette snug, but along those lines (including things like rear visibility). Oh, and visibility is pretty good in the Bolt - nice large side windows. The Premier model offers the 360 surround-view camera; the LT offers a jumbo-sized backup camera screen.
12. Has fast charging available ($750 option on the base model). Quick specs:

a. Level 1 charging: 4mph via 120V power outlet
b. Level 2 charging: 25mph via 240V charger
c. DC Fast Charging: 90 miles in 30 minutes, or 160mph at public chargers

13. Nice, large 10.2" touchscreen with a human-friendly interface. Lightyears above Honda's EV touchscreen. Has both Apple Carplay & Android Auto. They didn't skimp on nerd tech!
14. $7,500 tax credit still available!

Cons:

1. No TACC (adaptive radar cruise aka EyeSight). From what I understand, the regen system on the Bolt does not play nice with their current dynamic cruise system, so no dice. Personally this is a big deal for me because I drive a lot of highway miles & really want this on my next vehicle. If regular cruise is good enough for you, then this is a non-issue.
2. The motor is so powerful that their TC system can't keep up with it. It has a weird combination of torque steer & fishtailing at times, to the point where it would be a bit scary on a slick road (especially turning on a slick road) if you weren't careful not to gun it. It's very easy to apply a fair amount of power in this car, particularly because you're not getting any engine feedback via noise or vibration...turning onto a 4-lane road with the pedal down to beat oncoming traffic made the car swerve into both the left & right lane a bit (or at least, felt like it did). So you have to be mindful of the torque & off-the-line speed. The Honda EV has a far better system for keeping you safe. The Model X with Ludicrous mode has the most amazing system of anything I've taken out...just the tiniest bit of steer for a split-second when you gun it (0 to 60 in 2.9s) & then the system locks it into place. So that was a very visible issue with the system being sold on the first-gen Bolt (mostly when turning while applying power with gusto). It's like all those new Mustangs you see crashing when they do burnouts...I could definitely see some owners who aren't used to electric power (particularly the torque) getting into trouble, especially on say a rainy day with wet roads.
3. So while there is a lot of forward & backwards room for the driver & front passenger seats, it is a narrower car than most. Not awful like some super-thin cars, but I have long legs & width is always an issue for me. My knee bumped the hard plastic side, which was annoying. I would probably end up putting a sticky-back foam rubber strip on the door protrusion where my knee hit if I were to buy a Bolt. If you fit in a Ford Focus, you'd fit in this just fine, width-wise. Again, length-wise is kind of insane, I don't think I've ever sat in a car that I can go so far back in that my toes can't touch the front, haha.
4. No AWD is kind of a bummer, but FWD is better than RWD, and snow tires are always an option. Plus with the weight of the batteries, I'm sure the FWD with stock tires would do fine in the winter. I am spoiled with AWD, however, and that is something I'd like on my next car for sure, as I have it on my current one.
5. Price was kind of a bummer as well. As configured, the model I took out was $38.5k. On a standard 5-year loan at say zero percent with nothing down, you're looking at almost $650 a month (excluding tax etc.). Looking at my gas records, I am averaging $115 a month in fuel costs on my current ICE vehicle. It's also about $110 for an oil change (synthetic) & tire rotation. Plus the monthly payment...still far less than $650 a month. Yes, you get the $7.5k tax incentive...once. And that's assuming you get the full amount back in cash & also don't just blow it as bonus money rather than putting it into the car fund, which I'm guessing 0.1% of the population will actually do.
6. No supercharging available, although DC Fast Charging is decently quick. Supercharging numbers have been posted as high as 444mph. The newer Superchargers do 120kW DC & take roughly 20 minutes to do a 50% charge, 40 minutes to 80%, and 75 minutes to 100%, which is pretty significant if you're road-tripping or just need a charge-up on the road. For comparison, I set the timer on my Jeep to fill up from empty (getting out of the car, swiping my card, filling up, and getting back in my car) at 2 minutes 38 seconds, so...yeah. But the statistics being thrown around are always something like 'the majority of people drive 40 miles or less per day' so that's not a huge issue for most of the population.
7. The shifter bothered me. It's not anything that you can't learn, it's just non-standard, so you have to build up some new muscle memory. You push a button the left of the shifter to "shift" & to park, you push the button on the top of the shift. Just a little weird, is all.
8. The jump from the base to the premier model is thousands of dollars & doesn't really add much. Rims are the same size, it has leather, adds a few extra safety features in the Driver Confidence package (ex. forward collision alert), 360 camera, rear heated seats, etc. No TACC, no AWD, or other features that make the big IRL price difference really worth it.

I am currently in the market for a vehicle to replace my lemon Jeep Renegade, so I am looking at everything & anything. This is a great car & would fit my daily commute no problem, especially since we have a growing (but solid) charging infrastructure where I live. Living in New England, my first choice would be an AWD vehicle. I've driven both RWD & FWD in the snow, so it's not a huge issue to only have FWD available in the Bolt, especially since you can add snow tires if you really want to, but AWD is so convenient that it'd be hard to get rid of. No TACC is a big deal for me personally. And I feel like if I'm going to invest a base of $37k, I'd really rather wait for the Model 3 for a base price of $35k, which has both AWD & Autopilot available as options, especially as I plan on keeping it for 10+ years.

Price-wise, it's a hard pill to swallow. You basically have to want to have an electric car as the main motivation to get one. I can buy a pretty nice 435hp V8 Mustang brand-new for far less than the base-model Bolt. The nation-wide lease deal from April was $3.8k down & $329 a month (I believe that's a higher-than-normal 15k/yr allowance on a 3-year lease). iirc every thousand dollars on a lease is about $13 per month, so you might be able to do about $400/mo on a lease with nothing down & including taxes and whatnot. Assuming you're saving a hundred bucks or so a month on gas, you could look at it as a $300/mo lease, I guess. That's a lot of money just for the joy of driving an EV...without AWD, TACC, Autopilot, etc. However, pricing aside, it is an awesome car & I definitely wouldn't say no to one!

 

[K1052]

I've driven both RWD & FWD in the snow, so it's not a huge issue to only have FWD available in the Bolt, especially since you can add snow tires if you really want to, but AWD is so convenient that it'd be hard to get rid of. No TACC is a big deal for me personally. And I feel like if I'm going to invest a base of $37k, I'd really rather wait for the Model 3 for a base price of $35k, which has both AWD & Autopilot available as options, especially as I plan on keeping it for 10+ years.

AWD availability is a major reason I put down my Model 3 deposit. I owned Subarus for years and while I like the i3 I have on lease still really miss AWD when the weather goes to shit.

 

[Kaido]

AWD availability is a major reason I put down my Model 3 deposit.

Yeah, we have a Subaru & a Jeep now, both with AWD. It makes snow driving effortless. I've been able to get up the hill to my house every single time in the snow without having to park at the bottom & hike.

The Model 3 really seems like "the" model to get...AWD, realistic range, Autopilot, top safety marks, supercharging network, good performance, etc.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

New cars are terrible financial decisions. Period. Add in an electric premium and it's flat out stupid. Me personally I sold my f150 that carried a $500 a month payment and went and paid $7500 cash on a used honda fit with 45k miles. Best decision I've made in a long time. A car with a payment is no longer an option for me. That is real savings. No interest, no payment, cheaper insurance (and I can carry liability only if times get tough). Saving $40 a month in fuel and paying a premium is a joke financially.

 

[PricklyPete]

New cars are terrible financial decisions. Period. Add in an electric premium and it's flat out stupid. Me personally I sold my f150 that carried a $500 a month payment and went and paid $7500 cash on a used honda fit with 45k miles. Best decision I've made in a long time. A car with a payment is no longer an option for me. That is real savings. No interest, no payment, cheaper insurance (and I can carry liability only if times get tough). Saving $40 a month in fuel and paying a premium is a joke financially.

Everyone knows this...and nobody in the "Garage Forum" really cares. We are here to talk vehicles, not finances.

Glad you are happy with your financial decisions, but I am thankful Kaido took the time to review the Bolt to get another perspective on where electric cars are going.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Everyone knows this...and nobody in the "Garage Forum" really cares. We are here to talk vehicles, not finances.

Glad you are happy with your financial decisions, but I am thankful Kaido took the time to review the Bolt to get another perspective on where electric cars are going.

It was a nice review and the reason I read his reviews but I never comment. Just adding my 2 cents on saving money on vehicles since he seems to be big on that aspect of it.

 

[PricklyPete]

It was a nice review and the reason I read his reviews but I never comment. Just adding my 2 cents on saving money on vehicles since he seems to be big on that aspect of it.

Cool...my post probably came across worse than I meant it to...sorry about that. Finances are a big part of vehicle buying experience, so they do come up. The cheapest option will always be to get a super cheap, relatively reliable econobox and just keep it maintained till 350k miles. That being said, if we all did this...we'd have nothing fun to talk about in this forum.

Of course Trident certainly should have taken your advice...but everyone knows this too.

 

[Kaido]

It was a nice review and the reason I read his reviews but I never comment. Just adding my 2 cents on saving money on vehicles since he seems to be big on that aspect of it.

Budget is always a concern (unless you're an ATOT #baller, haha) and you aren't wrong about new cars being heavy financially. With my current vehicle, being the first new vehicle I've ever purchased (a opposed to leased), I got bit by the depreciation bug because (1) I got a lemon, (2) I was only able to get KBB value out of FCA through the legal route, which (3) leaves me with the choice of continuing to drive a buggy car or eat thousands of dollars to get rid of it. It is no fun. If the car was issue-free, I would obviously be much happier, as it fits my budget & my needs/wants list, but yeah, there are traps out there.

Electric cars, on the surface, appear very budget-friendly. The catch is that unless oil spikes up high, they're not going to make much economic sense for awhile, although as Pete mentioned, economics are not the only metric for buying a car. If your bottom line is to get the best deal possible, then buying a late-model used car in good condition with low miles & no new-car depreciation is definitely one of the smartest ways to go. And the simple math of purchasing a Bolt, for example, doesn't really jive ($38,500 MSRP / 60 months = ~$641/mo car payment). I would only be saving $115 in gas every month at my current fuel consumption rate, leaving the car still "costing" $526. And $526 buys a lot of car on the new market (and even more on the used market!). So if your personal goal on your vehicle is to save money & have a lower monthly payment, or else pay it all off in one lump sum so you have no payment, then the used market is an excellent way to go.

From a broad perspective, buying a new car is only a terrible financial decision if you can't responsibly afford the payments, or have other financial goals that would get set back by having a higher monthly payment (or by having a monthly payment at all). I knew a kid in high school who bought a $500/mo car. He was pretty much making $500 a month at his part-time job. Literally had to ask his mom for gas money every week to get to school, haha. Maybe not the best financial decision in that case. But if you can afford a Maserati & can responsibly handle a $25k down payment & $2.2k a month, then a Gran Turismo isn't a bad financial decision, it's just a personal decision that fits your budget. Whether a financial decision is good or bad depends primarily on a person's financial situation & goals.

I would like to see electrics drop to the point of being practical in terms of affordability. I think the EV manufacturers are jacking up the price due to the $7.5k tax incentive. Probably the most affordable one on the market right now is the Spark EV, which I believe starts at $25k base. I think the Model 3 is the most compelling EV on the market, mainly due to Autopilot, but also because of the high safety features, good range, and AWD option. A $2,000 beater will get you by just as well as an EV would, but if you want a Model 3 & you can afford it, that definitely doesn't make it a bad financial decision at all.

 

[Kaido]

Cool...my post probably came across worse than I meant it to...sorry about that. Finances are a big part of vehicle buying experience, so they do come up. The cheapest option will always be to get a super cheap, relatively reliable econobox and just keep it maintained till 350k miles. That being said, if we all did this...we'd have nothing fun to talk about in this forum.

And that's exactly it. Fixing up a vintage sports car makes no financial sense. They pollute, they're loud, parts are expensive, they're not reliable, the safety features are extremely outdated, you probably won't be able to make any money selling it unless you're really awesome at restoration jobs, but hey, they're pretty dang cool. If your sole purchasing metric is the best deal for a reliable vehicle, you can almost always get a better deal by buying something like an off-lease vehicle for thousands less than new. Assuming that getting a good deal on a reliable used car is your personal goal for purchasing the vehicle. But if you want certain features, or a certain car, or a fast muscle car, or a huge Suburban...there are lots of other reasons to pick different cars.

Plus, different people have different ties to different cars. I leased a Honda Fit for a few years & absolutely loved it, tons of fun, very zippy, surprisingly roomy. My friend had one too...he drove into work one day, hit an ice patch, got into a one-car accident, and went into a coma for six months. Came pretty close to dying. So now whenever we see a Honda Fit, we call it the Coma Car. I don't think you could give him a sweet enough deal to ever drive one again, so if we're talking about the emotion of buying a car, there are positive & negative ones to consider as well. I also know plenty of people who drive giant SUV's & live by themselves, but they drive one because they were in an accident and wanted a big replacement car in order to feel safe.

But anyway...I think electric cars are cool & would like to see them make more financial sense, particularly from a purely cost-savings perspective in terms of being able to buy one & charge it for less than you would buy a gas car & fuel it up. Pretty difficult to do right now. I think the only person I know who has accomplished that is my buddy who got the $199/mo Leaf lease deal & charges up 100% of the time at work for free. But he's limited to 80 miles of range on his model, so there are tradeoffs involved. The Chevy Volt feels like a no-tradeoff electric vehicle (for anything other than long-distance road trips), it's just the price that doesn't make sense for cost savings at the pump, which means that you have to want to buy one because you personally want to drive an electric vehicle, and at that point, if you don't mind waiting, it kind of makes more sense to buy a more fully-featured Model 3 where you can get AWD (if you live in snowy areas) & Autopilot (which I believe has the hardware installed on every single car built, but can be turned on by purchasing that feature during ordering time or down the road, as budget/desire allows). And for $38k...a V8 Mustang at $5,000 less sounds pretty appealing, haha.

 

[K1052]

New cars are terrible financial decisions. Period. Add in an electric premium and it's flat out stupid. Me personally I sold my f150 that carried a $500 a month payment and went and paid $7500 cash on a used honda fit with 45k miles. Best decision I've made in a long time. A car with a payment is no longer an option for me. That is real savings. No interest, no payment, cheaper insurance (and I can carry liability only if times get tough). Saving $40 a month in fuel and paying a premium is a joke financially.

While I don't necessarily disagree on the cost aspect I don't see how this post is relevant, at all.

 

[K1052]

Yeah, we have a Subaru & a Jeep now, both with AWD. It makes snow driving effortless. I've been able to get up the hill to my house every single time in the snow without having to park at the bottom & hike.

The Model 3 really seems like "the" model to get...AWD, realistic range, Autopilot, top safety marks, supercharging network, good performance, etc.

The Model S is too large for my liking personally as well. While the 3 will certainly have fewer gadgets the core features that you noted will be intact. Access to the supercharging network will also be nice since the CCS buildout has been nothing short of glacial and odd since nobody is really running it.

 

[Yakk]

Interesting review, thanks. Price & such makes it a no-buy for me, but it's good to see companies working on these projects.

 

[herm0016]

your biggest gripe seems to be that it is not a tesla.... but it is not a tesla and costs 60% less than the tesla you can buy right now.

I bet they will get the traction control figured out a bit better as time goes on. when the volt was new they had a bunch of software updates. Hopefully charging infrastructure starts improving faster.

as far as costs go, we traded an outback in on our volt. paid about 28 k for a 2 year old volt with 30k on it. Would have spent that much on any other car, and we only use about 10 bucks worth of gas per month and have had 2 oil changes in 30k miles. total cost of ownership per mile will be much less than any other car we would have considered. It has been in the shop 1 time for a rock through the radiator and it was covered because they updated the plastic screen infront of the Rad at some point.

The Volt with snows is a beast due to its weight and low center of gravity. I was making laps in our street to pack it down so my neighbor could get out in his focus, he got stuck in the middle of the road.

 

[Kaido]

The Model S is too large for my liking personally as well. While the 3 will certainly have fewer gadgets the core features that you noted will be intact. Access to the supercharging network will also be nice since the CCS buildout has been nothing short of glacial and odd since nobody is really running it.

The odd thing is, the Model S is a very large (and wide) vehicle, but is very snug on the inside. It's definitely got a sports car "feel" for the interior, similar to say a Corvette. The Bolt is like twice as roomy inside, plus the back seats are way better. If the Autopilot option didn't exist, I would buy a Bolt over a Model S. However, the Model X is a giant version of the Bolt (big bubble inside), so if budget allowed, I would take the X over the Bolt.

Again, pricing aside, the Bolt is the first mass-market EV that I think would really work for the majority of people, without having to compromise on a smaller 80 or 107-mile battery like on the Spark EV or Leaf. The Bolt is a regular car that happens to be electric, unlike say a Leaf that is an electric car trying to be a regular car, if that makes sense. Basically, it doesn't feel like a compromise in any way...it gets as much range as my gas Jeep does & everything else feels totally normal.

 

[Kaido]

Interesting review, thanks. Price & such makes it a no-buy for me, but it's good to see companies working on these projects.

Yeah, it's early-adopter pricing. If there were no tax rebate & these sold for like $20 or $25k, I wouldn't hesitate to jump on one. But going from a $299 or $399/mo car payment to a $640+/mo car payment is pretty steep. You can lease a Model S for $699...

 

[Kaido]

your biggest gripe seems to be that it is not a tesla.... but it is not a tesla and costs 60% less than the tesla you can buy right now.

I bet they will get the traction control figured out a bit better as time goes on. when the volt was new they had a bunch of software updates. Hopefully charging infrastructure starts improving faster.

as far as costs go, we traded an outback in on our volt. paid about 28 k for a 2 year old volt with 30k on it. Would have spent that much on any other car, and we only use about 10 bucks worth of gas per month and have had 2 oil changes in 30k miles. total cost of ownership per mile will be much less than any other car we would have considered. It has been in the shop 1 time for a rock through the radiator and it was covered because they updated the plastic screen infront of the Rad at some point.

The Volt with snows is a beast due to its weight and low center of gravity. I was making laps in our street to pack it down so my neighbor could get out in his focus, he got stuck in the middle of the road.

If you need an electric car *today*, then the Bolt is awesome. If you're not in a rush, then the Model 3 is going to be the same price, plus offer AWD & Autopilot, which are compelling features. But again, the main reason you would get a Bolt is because you wanted to drive electric, not because it's a cost-effective option, because at $600+/mo for a purchase, that doesn't offset gas costs (at least, not with a 238-mile range). And I would consider the lease pretty expensive ($3,800 down + $329/mo). If it was like $0 down & $299/mo, that would be a lot more attractive.

imo the Volt is the best hybrid on the market. I've considered getting one. They have a really nice 3-year lease deal going on for zero down & $295 a month (or alternatively, 0% interest on a 60-month loan). The lease deal makes a lot more sense financially because at $115/mo for gas, that brings the Volt down to $180/mo, which is less than I was paying for my Civic lease previously ($234/mo iirc). 53 miles of EV range & no range anxiety thanks to the gas engine...very nice! Just don't know if I want a sedan again...I like sitting up in my Jeep & also like the clearance on the crappy roads & parking lot entries around here.

 

[herm0016]

The front rubber part on our volt does get pretty scarred up. plows snow though! lol. I like the visibility of my Pickup as well.

The model 3 with AWD and Autopilot will be more than a bolt, I bet by a significant amount. Est. avg. transaction price is being guessed at something around 60k for a model 3 from what I have been reading.

 

[K1052]

The model 3 with AWD and Autopilot will be more than a bolt, I bet by a significant amount. Est. avg. transaction price is being guessed at something around 60k for a model 3 from what I have been reading.

I always assumed that a Model 3 optioned as I would want would run about 20K over base. I'm hoping to keep the configuration under 60k which should be doable since I don't need a battery above base capacity.

 

[agent00f]

If you need an electric car *today*, then the Bolt is awesome. If you're not in a rush, then the Model 3 is going to be the same price, plus offer AWD & Autopilot, which are compelling features. But again, the main reason you would get a Bolt is because you wanted to drive electric, not because it's a cost-effective option, because at $600+/mo for a purchase, that doesn't offset gas costs (at least, not with a 238-mile range). And I would consider the lease pretty expensive ($3,800 down + $329/mo). If it was like $0 down & $299/mo, that would be a lot more attractive.

imo the Volt is the best hybrid on the market. I've considered getting one. They have a really nice 3-year lease deal going on for zero down & $295 a month (or alternatively, 0% interest on a 60-month loan). The lease deal makes a lot more sense financially because at $115/mo for gas, that brings the Volt down to $180/mo, which is less than I was paying for my Civic lease previously ($234/mo iirc). 53 miles of EV range & no range anxiety thanks to the gas engine...very nice! Just don't know if I want a sedan again...I like sitting up in my Jeep & also like the clearance on the crappy roads & parking lot entries around here.

A model 3 with options like awd isn't going to be anywhere near the price, assuming you can even get one anytime soon.

 

[Demo24]

Ive only seen one on the road so far, and that was in DC. Probably because they apparently aren't yet being sold in my state. Your review is pretty typical of all that Ive read, so it sounds to me like chevy has done a pretty good job. I'd buy one if I needed a commuter car.

I like the idea of Tesla's model3, but worried about their ability to produce them fast enough and service them. It also appears to have had a rather quick engineering period compared to some models.


Something's to note on the finance part. It can make a lot of sense to lease an EV versus buying one. In part because the full tax rebate gets applied to the lease. Also some states also offer incentives for EV or hybrid cars, so this can help as well.

The problem I see with buying them used is I don't think anyone truly knows how long the battery will really last. So yes you can get a used leaf for surprisingly cheap, but will you be able to get enough use out of it before replacing the battery for basically what you bought the car for?

 

[Kaido]

A model 3 with options like awd isn't going to be anywhere near the price, assuming you can even get one anytime soon.

I think like K1052 said, it's probably going to be closer to the $60k range once you spec out all the options, taxes, delivery fee, etc. Which is still a relatively great deal compared to buying a Model S with Autopilot, I guess, haha.

 

[Kaido]

Ive only seen one on the road so far, and that was in DC. Probably because they apparently aren't yet being sold in my state. Your review is pretty typical of all that Ive read, so it sounds to me like chevy has done a pretty good job. I'd buy one if I needed a commuter car.

I like the idea of Tesla's model3, but worried about their ability to produce them fast enough and service them. It also appears to have had a rather quick engineering period compared to some models.


Something's to note on the finance part. It can make a lot of sense to lease an EV versus buying one. In part because the full tax rebate gets applied to the lease. Also some states also offer incentives for EV or hybrid cars, so this can help as well.

The problem I see with buying them used is I don't think anyone truly knows how long the battery will really last. So yes you can get a used leaf for surprisingly cheap, but will you be able to get enough use out of it before replacing the battery for basically what you bought the car for?

So far, outside of Tesla, it seems like leasing is the best way financially to go for electric vehicles. And yeah, the Bolt really feels like just a regular car that happens to be electric. It has a usable range, the price isn't in the luxury segment like Tesla, and it can fit 4 adults in it, which was surprising!

Having been bitten on a first-gen Jeep Renegade, I have not put my money down on a Model 3...like you said, it's had a quick engineering period, they are going to be producing a lot of them in a short period of time, they are going to need time to build up the service infrastructure, etc. I am going to wait a couple years & let other people have the fun of getting the kinks worked out of them before considering one.

 

[Yuriman]

Ive only seen one on the road so far, and that was in DC. Probably because they apparently aren't yet being sold in my state. Your review is pretty typical of all that Ive read, so it sounds to me like chevy has done a pretty good job. I'd buy one if I needed a commuter car.

I like the idea of Tesla's model3, but worried about their ability to produce them fast enough and service them. It also appears to have had a rather quick engineering period compared to some models.


Something's to note on the finance part. It can make a lot of sense to lease an EV versus buying one. In part because the full tax rebate gets applied to the lease. Also some states also offer incentives for EV or hybrid cars, so this can help as well.

The problem I see with buying them used is I don't think anyone truly knows how long the battery will really last. So yes you can get a used leaf for surprisingly cheap, but will you be able to get enough use out of it before replacing the battery for basically what you bought the car for?

I'm not too concerned about battery longevity. My hybrid battery is over 17 years old now and still working great. I understand that in hotter climates, many have had to replace them sooner, but these are also using older chemistries (mostly NiMH).

The original Leaf suffered battery degradation, causing measurable loss after just a few years, but Nissan made a huge engineering mistake by providing absolutely no active cooling for the batteries, and heat is what kills them. Since then chemistries have changed a bit and you're seeing manufacturers paying attention to battery cooling.

You might find this interesting:

http://www.hybridcars.com/zero-battery-degradation-replacements-giving-chevy-volts-an-edge/

General Motors can make a claim for its Chevy Volt battery pack that has eluded the competitive Nissan Leaf: there’s been zero battery degradation in the Volt.

GM says that, so far, it has had to replace zero Volt battery packs due to what’s been defined as “general capacity degradation.”

In 2012, after reports of premature battery degradation in hot states for the Nissan Leaf, especially in Arizona, Texas, and California, Nissan upgraded its warranty to guaranty 70 percent charge holding capacity for five years and up to 60,000 miles. That made warranty programs for battery packs a hot topic for companies like Nissan, GM, and Tesla to market to car shoppers and safety regulators. It pushed the envelope out to 8 year/100,000 miles as the industry standard for lithium-ion battery packs in electric cars.

Battery storage has been one of the applications for Volt batteries that tap into the long-lasting durability. GM has used Volt batteries for a renewable energy storage project. The automaker is using a few of them at its Milford Proving Grounds in Michigan, where it will help supply power to its new Enterprise Data Center.

Launched in December 2010, the Chevy Volt has so far withstood the test of time in battery durability.

So, as of 2016, zero Volts have had a replacement battery for dropping below 70% capacity.


https://ngtnews.com/2012-chevy-volt-maintains-100-battery-capacity-after-300000-miles

2012 Chevy Volt Maintains 100% Battery Capacity After 300,000 Miles

One owner of a 2012 Chevy Volt has driven his plug-in hybrid over 300,000 miles with no signs of battery degradation, according to Green Car Reports.

Owned by Eric Belmer, the 2012 Chevy Volt still offers the 35 miles of electric driving range it left the factory with despite driving about 6,500 miles per month. Belmer claims to have covered approximately one-third of his driving using just electricity – about 103,000 miles. Yet, the Volt’s battery pack remains at its full capacity.

Why? The simple reason is that GM over-engineered the Volt’s 16 kWh lithium-ion battery, only allowing the vehicle to draw on 10 kWh at most. This leaves a tremendous buffer for both charging and discharging, the two most common culprits of premature capacity loss.

Another factor in the Volt’s longevity is the liquid-cooling system in the battery pack. Unlike the Nissan LEAF, which relies on forced air to cool its battery, the Volt has an extensive (and expensive) liquid-cooling system that keeps the battery at optimal temperatures. This helps preserve battery life, allowing Volt owners like Belmer to run up the odometer without the loss of electric driving range.

 

[Kaido]

So:

1. Truecar lists the average selling price of the LT as $34,923.
2. The one-time Federal tax rebate is $7,500 at the end of the year.
3. I just found out my state has a $3,000 rebate available, which specifically lists the Bolt as applicable:

http://www.ct.gov/deep/cwp/view.asp?a=2684&q=561422&deepNav_GID=2183

So $34,923 - $3,000 = $31,923. Roughly $32k (plus 6.35% sales tax, yippie! and any required dealer fees that you can't weasel out of). Then $7,500 at the end of the year off your taxes. Hmm...that's getting more reasonable...

That also makes the Prius Prime cheaper:

https://www.toyota.com/priusprime/calculator/

Truecar says the Prime goes for just above $25k for the (reasonably loaded) base model. Minus $750 rebate plus $4,500 tax incentive...DANG!

 

[manly]

I think like K1052 said, it's probably going to be closer to the $60k range once you spec out all the options, taxes, delivery fee, etc. Which is still a relatively great deal compared to buying a Model S with Autopilot, I guess, haha.

I think it'll be more like a BMW 3 series that starts in the mid $30s, but hits around $50k "well-equipped." Certainly there's more tech in the Tesla, so some configs will hit $60k+ but I think the ASP will be closer to $50k once production ramps up. Which is obvious considering the BMW 3 Series or Mercedes-Benz C-class are the vehicles directly targeted by the Model 3.

Also, the federal $7500 credit will begin to phase out for Tesla around mid-2018:
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/foru...hase-out-updated-040217-after-2017-q1-results

This is great for early adopters of the 3, but most buyers will be disappointed when 2019 rolls around. (The 50% credit level is still nothing to sneeze at.)

I disagree on a couple points you've made. First, I think it's been written that GM loses money on every Chevy Bolt sold. So I don't believe they are jacking up the price due to the existence of the federal rebate. Currently, BEVs are low volume, high cost goods. We're all hoping the Model 3 changes that!

As far as financing (or leasing) a brand new car, it can both be a justifiable and affordable expense for a person and a "bad" financial decision. Those are not mutually exclusive. IMHO, you're losing 35% (or worse) of the value of the average new car in 3 years. So almost by definition, it's can't be a good or even OK financial decision. But I agree that if you can afford it and it makes you happy, so be it.

I've never leased a car, but just because the monthly payments appear low doesn't mean it's better than financing. If I understand leasing correctly, you're basically paying for the depreciation of the vehicle over the lease term, based on the leasing company's choice of residual value. They can fudge RV a bit to move cars, but in theory it should more or less reflect actual depreciation of that vehicle. If you consider that at the end of the lease, you either have to buy out the car or start a new lease, you're still getting clubbed hard by depreciation in exchange for the privilege of being the first "owner."

I'll offer a slight exception here for the rare car like a Honda Accord that is both reasonably affordable and depreciates slowly compared to all other autos.