Cheney enters 'torture' memos row

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jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
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Originally posted by: eskimospy
I will be sure to include discussions with imaginary lawyers in my future posts.

hey, I like doing that :)

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
"Water torture" was not even legally defined in that case. How do I know that? It's because the anti-torture laws didn't even exist at the time, so there was no applicable law available to charge or prosecute them for torture, water torture, or waterboarding. Thereore there was nothing in the case that spoke to the legality of it. That's why those men were charged with extortion and civil rights violations. Since there was no legal standing concerning torture in that case, or water torture, or water boarding, it would have been senseless to cite it. Can you see the exchange between attorneys?

Why were they guilty of violating civil rights?

Either:

the defendants were guilty of civil rights violations because they coerced confessions through illegal means (waterboarding), or

The defendants were guilty of civil rights violations because they coerced confessions through a perfectly acceptable method of interrogation.

One of those doesn't make much sense.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
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Originally posted by: dphantom
A bug (caterpillar) is certainly scary to a terrorist or a psychotic leftist.

You [the CIA] would like to place Zubaydah in a cramped confinement box with an insect. You have informed us [the Department of Justice] that he appears to have a fear of insects. In particular, you would like to tell Zubaydah that you intend to place a stinging insect into the box with him. You would, however, place a harmless insect in the box. You have orally informed us that you would in fact place a harmless insect such as a caterpillar in the box with him.
- The Bybee Memo


'You asked me once,' said O'Brien, 'what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.'

'The worst thing in the world,' said O'Brien, 'varies from individual to individual. It may be burial alive, or death by fire, or by drowning, or by impalement, or fifty other deaths. There are cases where it is some quite trivial thing, not even fatal.'

He had moved a little to one side, so that Winston had a better view of the thing on the table. It was an oblong wire cage with a handle on top for carrying it by. Fixed to the front of it was something that looked like a fencing mask, with the concave side outwards. Although it was three or four metres away from him, he could see that the cage was divided lengthways into two compartments, and that there was some kind of creature in each. They were rats.

'In your case,' said O'Brien, 'the worst thing in the world happens to be rats.'

A sort of premonitory tremor, a fear of he was not certain what, had passed through Winston as soon as he caught his first glimpse of the cage. But at this moment the meaning of the mask-like attachment in front of it suddenly sank into him. His bowels seemed to turn to water.

'By itself,' he said, 'pain is not always enough. There are occasions when a human being will stand out against pain, even to the point of death. But for everyone there is something unendurable -- something that cannot be contemplated. Courage and cowardice are not involved. If you are falling from a height it is not cowardly to clutch at a rope. If you have come up from deep water it is not cowardly to fill your lungs with air. It is merely an instinct which cannot be destroyed. It is the same with the rats. For you, they are unendurable. They are a form of pressure that you cannot withstand, even if you wished to. You will do what is required of you.'

There was an outburst of squeals from the cage. It seemed to reach Winston from far away. The rats were fighting; they were trying to get at each other through the partition. He heard also a deep groan of despair. That, too, seemed to come from outside himself.

O'Brien picked up the cage, and, as he did so, pressed something in it. There was a sharp click. Winston made a frantic effort to tear himself loose from the chair. It was hopeless; every part of him, even his head, was held immovably. O'Brien moved the cage nearer. It was less than a metre from Winston's face.

-George Orwell, 1984


The defenders of these tactics are not the good guys.
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: eskimospy
As you have been told probably in excess of a dozen times in this thread alone, you have already been presented with facts. You simply choose to ignore inconvenient information.

I will be sure to include discussions with imaginary lawyers in my future posts.
lol. How fucking ironic. Ignoring inconvenient facts is all you guys have been doing.

Get back with me when you have any facts that don't consist of 'Because eskimospy said so.'

Until then, you've got nuthin' and haven't been able to show in the least that waterboarding as implemented by the CIA breaks our laws.

All your handwaving does not a fact make.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,886
55,138
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Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: eskimospy
As you have been told probably in excess of a dozen times in this thread alone, you have already been presented with facts. You simply choose to ignore inconvenient information.

I will be sure to include discussions with imaginary lawyers in my future posts.
lol. How fucking ironic. Ignoring inconvenient facts is all you guys have been doing.

Get back with me when you have any facts that don't consist of 'Because eskimospy said so.'

Until then, you've got nuthin' and haven't been able to show in the least that waterboarding as implemented by the CIA breaks our laws.

All your handwaving does not a fact make.

Once again, you have been provided with this information repeatedly. I can't help you if you won't help yourself.