Cheering Palestinians.. But keep your angers directed!!!!!!

[AtriumBruin]

I responded to another thread with this in mind. I felt it important enough to remind everyone that we all have a right to be angry, sad, threatened, and yes, even violent.. But do keep in mind that we need to focus this anger to the right direction. We need to get rid of this threat, and we need to get our country out of harms way. Please read the following. This below was originally a response to a thread about how we should kill the Palestinian people and Arab nation citizens for cheering for the deaths of our fellow Americans. Please read it in context.

My first reaction to the destruction and the Palestinian rejoices were WTF!!! HOW COULD THEY!!!!!!!! BASTARDS!!!!! And from then on, I simply couldn't manage to handle my temper afterwards.. But at night, after calming down, I realized... Remember guys, that when we bombed Hiroshima, I'm sure many of us Americans were cheering. Of course, this is under different circumstances completely, but the morals behind cheering for deaths are the same. For one reason or the other, they perceive us as the enemy. EDIT: Many of you say that we were cheering because war was ending. Of course, I would be too. But how about when Tokyo was bombed in retaliation of Pearl Harbor? We cheered then. When we won battles, we cheered. And for some reason or another, I and many other americans don't know why, they're cheering because they feel they have gotten revenge. We have no idea why. NO idea. Revenge on what??? But to them, it's clear as day, and we gotta figure that out. As hard as it is, we need to stand in their political shoes and figure out wtf they're thinking and why we look like monsters to them.

We have to focus on finding the bastards who did the bombing and eradicate their training camps, everything. Obviously, the United States, for a reason unknown to many of us Americans, is seen as a horrible nation in their eyes.. That's another thing that we will have to figure out after this aftermath in order to prevent future attacks from happening. Something regarding our policy towards Arabs is causing them to view us as barbarians. Even some citizens in our allied countries like Egypt were cheering "congratulations!" when they saw the bombing on TV. How could this be??? Our allies!!!! Something is very wrong, and unless we take notice of what's going on, it won't end. Keep your anger focused gentlemen. They need to be directed, not lashed out, in order to get things done. We are a great nation, and we can get them done.

 

[Rainsford]

I think that this is completely different from nuking Japan. We were celebrating the end of the war, or at least the events that would end the war. But those people were cheering the fact that Americans died. Americans who did nothing to them. The deaths will change nothing for the Palestinians, yet they cheer the death of Americans. Anyone who celebrates the loss of innocent life to no end deserves nothing but death themselves.

 

[AtriumBruin]

I completely understand. I in no way condone the attacks at all. But the morals of cheering for deaths is the same. Countless civilians died in Japan as well. This was in response to a thread where people were saying to kill the Palestinian people for cheering, and I just wanted to remind people that, hey, we gotta keep our heads screwed on tight and to focus on finding the people who did this.

You pointed out: "But those people were cheering the fact that Americans died. Americans who did nothing to them. "

I understand. Of course it's horrible to see them cheering over deaths. But something horrible must have been done to them, or they feel was done to them, to make them comfortable to cheer. As comfortable as Americans were during world war 2. Even I don't understand why they're so happy, and of course, both you and i feel we did nothing to them. But yet even our allied citizens of Egypt were cheering!! Something is obviously wrong, and we have no idea why. We gotta figure that out, else we're in trouble in that region for years to come..

 

[xyyz]

<< I think that this is completely different from nuking Japan. We were celebrating the end of the war, or at least the events that would end the war. But those people were cheering the fact that Americans died. Americans who did nothing to them. The deaths will change nothing for the Palestinians, yet they cheer the death of Americans. Anyone who celebrates the loss of innocent life to no end deserves nothing but death themselves. >>



No... i'm pretty sure Americans were happy that "those japs got what they deserved..." hence their detaining of Japanese-Americans.

I agree with AtriumBruin.... anger needs to be focused on those responsible for the attack... and not your average arab and average muslim. It's really uncomfortable when you hear people look at you with hostility because of your skin color (personally wittnessed this alot today)... and when you hear remarks, like this one a friend overheard... "I have alot of Muslim friends... but I don't think I can be friends with them anymore if this turns out to be some Arab thing." How the hell are her innocent Muslim friends involved here?

 

[dawheat]

The cheering at the close of WWII was to celebrate the END of killing, not that lives had been lost. I actually doubt many civilians had any idea what had just occured, the horror of the nuclear strikes. All they knew is that the worst was in history was over.

While I know the videos of Palestinians celebrating do not represent the views of the whole, it probably is the POV of quite a large percentage.

 

[xyyz]

<< While I know the videos of Palestinians celebrating do not represent the views of the whole, it probably is the POV of quite a large percentage. >>



Look at this biased attitude... "probably the POW of quite a large percentage"

What... so an overwhelming majority of the Palestinan people are heartless? Man you people need to step back and see what sort of racist S- you say.

 

[AtriumBruin]

dawheat, that is a good argument. I should add that in retaliation of Pearl Harbor, our first act in the war against Japan was the bombing of Tokyo. We cheered too. Of course, this must have been for revenge and so it's ok to cheer. Or when we won battles after killing people in Germany, Japan, anywhere, we cheered. Deaths were involved, but we cheered because it was revenge for our injustice!! But then why are they cheering? Because they feel they got revenge for their injustices!. "What? What injustices?? We didn't do anything!!??", I ask as well. I dont' have any clue. But obviously, it's there, because no one would cheer for deaths unless they feel that they had been wronged. So most importantly, we gotta figure out what's going on over there and why so many nations feel taht we're the bad guy and deserve this. Like i said, to be redundant, even citizens of Egypt, our allies, were cheering "congratulations!" It boggles the mind, but if even they're happy, something has got to be wrong. In the meantime, we have to stop the individuals and groups behind the attacks themselves.

 

[Rockhound]

Firstly, the bombing of Japan was during wartime. That's what happens in wars. The "cheering" as you put it, when we bombed Tokyo was probably more due to the fact that we proved we could hit them back from such a long distance which also put the fear of our military into them. This was as much a psychological victory as it was a military victory.

Secondly, don't forget, the bombing of Hiroshima with a nuclear weapon was to accomplish two things - 1) to simply end the war and 2) to prevent thousands upon thousands of American casualties that were predicted to occur if we were to invade Japan. And mind you these numbers were staggering. I don't remember exact numbers but they were talking in the neighborhood of 200,000 American casualties alone (or something along those lines) because of the fierce resistance the Japanese would have put up like they did at Okinawa. So, either we risk absolutely horrific casualties and maybe (or maybe not) the war ends as a result or we put an end to it in one swift stroke.

So, yes we were cheering, but more to the affect of winning the war. And it was a war that they started. You cannot deny that. The attack on Pearl Harbor was unprovoked.

 

[Aelus]

<< Firstly, the bombing of Japan was during wartime. That's what happens in wars. The "cheering" as you put it, when we bombed Tokyo was probably more due to the fact that we proved we could hit them back from such a long distance which also put the fear of our military into them. This was as much a psychological victory as it was a military victory. >>



replace japan with the USA, and consider that many palestinians feel that they are fighting a war against the oppressors and murderers of their families. Since the USA supports israel, they are also seen as the enemy. and this is a big psychological victory for those people in the camps.

Aelus

 

[jehh]

<<
replace japan with the USA, and consider that many palestinians feel that they are fighting a war against the oppressors and murderers of their families. Since the USA supports israel, they are also seen as the enemy. and this is a big psychological victory for those people in the camps.

Aelus >>



Sure, but unlike Japan at the end of WWII, we have the ability to obliterate them off the face of the Earth...

Not that we would do so, but they might consider that Israel ALSO has that ability... And with what has just happened, Israel might feel they have license to do just that...

John McCain today on CNN said that very thing...

 

[dawheat]

<<Look at this biased attitude... "probably the POW of quite a large percentage"

What... so an overwhelming majority of the Palestinan people are heartless? Man you people need to step back and see what sort of racist S- you say. >>

I apolgize but I don't see exactly how this was a racist statement. If I'm incorrect please correct me. However it is a safe bet to assume that a large percentage of Palestinians are bitterly opposed to Isreal- you see widespread cheering and celebrations when Israeli citizens and military personnel are killed. From that I'd expect a certain percentage of those people are extremist enough to support statements along the lines that this was divine retribution against the US, etc. for our support of Israel.

No where did I say overwhelming majority- don't try to put words in my mouth. I still maintain that that a considerable portion of Palestinians see the attacks as what the US deserved and that is was about time that someone taught us a lesson.

In no way is this against those Palestinians who are citizens of the US or the many who join in our sorrow. But fact is fact- there probably is a huge number of people not only in Palenstine but all over the Middle East who are applauding the murder of Americans.

 

[xyyz]

<< <<Look at this biased attitude... "probably the POW of quite a large percentage"

What... so an overwhelming majority of the Palestinan people are heartless? Man you people need to step back and see what sort of racist S- you say. >>

I apolgize but I don't see exactly how this was a racist statement. If I'm incorrect please correct me. However it is a safe bet to assume that a large percentage of Palestinians are bitterly opposed to Isreal- you see widespread cheering and celebrations when Israeli citizens and military personnel are killed. From that I'd expect a certain percentage of those people are extremist enough to support statements along the lines that this was divine retribution against the US, etc. for our support of Israel.

No where did I say overwhelming majority- don't try to put words in my mouth. I still maintain that that a considerable portion of Palestinians see the attacks as what the US deserved and that is was about time that someone taught us a lesson.

In no way is this against those Palestinians who are citizens of the US or the many who join in our sorrow. But fact is fact- there probably is a huge number of people not only in Palenstine but all over the Middle East who are applauding the murder of Americans. >>



It is because you are grouping them all together.... this is pure speculation on your part. Already Araft has condemned the act... and he himself has donated blood... and has told President Bush that the humble palestinan resources are at his disposal.

You say "widespread" cheering? What widespread cheering is this? I've seen the same clip played over and over and over... and it shows alot of young children and maybe 5 adults. Do you know for a fact that this is indeed their reaction to the bombing... like someone said before... they didn't see them burning flags... for all we know that could have been video of something totally unrelated.

What other massive celebrations have you seen? Please tell me so that I can take a look as well. I've been glued to the television news... and I haven't seen anything like what you speak about.

About the Arabs... again do you know this? Oh that's right you said "PROBABLY." Don't speculate w/o knowing facts... especially it it can hurt a group of people. With the exception of Iraq... EVERY arab nation condemned these actions.

 

[etech]

The Palestinians have had 40 years to come to a peace with Israel, they haven't.

Every time a peace was about to be worked out, an act of terror was committed on Israel.


From a caller on NPR.
The fate of the Palestinians was written on the walls of the WTC.

 

[TripleJ]

<<Every time a peace was about to be worked out, an act of terror was committed on Israel.>>

An Isreali killed their own Prime Minister. Remember, everybody is an individual, so there are a huge number of reasons, opinions and motives towards this.

 

[Shalmanese]

The palestinians were not cheering for the DEATHS, the palestinians probably had no idea of the magnitude of the deaths or probably did not consider it same as how americans did not consider the deaths of the enemy in ANY of the major wars it fought in (just like any other country of course)

The palestinians were celebrating because they saw this as a shifting in world powers, it was as if a big burly nightclub bouncer got hit in the nutsack by a small kid. The kid knows he is in deep sh!t but he feels elated at the same time. Of course he does not consider the pain caused because he is too wrapped up in his victory. Try to look at it from their perspective, lives were lost in a "foreign country". Many lives are lost each day in "foreign countries" each day and there is very little emotional attachment to the matter. I am ashamed to say that at our school in Australia, there was a surreal air of normaility about the entire situation, people would be flipping between minutes of deep concern and hours of extreme indifference and apathy, Yes it is tragic that so many lives were lost but it is still an event in a far off country.

You may call them terroists but the palestians are probably calling them freedom fighters in the same way as the western world calls many groups that it supports, freedom fighters. Although I do not condone the celebrations, what disgusts me is the moral high ground many americans are taking about the issue.

 

[Sugadaddy]

Let me just say one thing:

How many different scenes of Palestinians celebrating did you actually see?


From what I saw, it was the SAME street shown over and over on all major TV stations, and most of them were children who have no idea of the gravity of the situation. What I also saw is that their leader gave his sincere condolences to the American people, donated blood, and that many Palestinians (much more than the small number that were shown celebrating) brought flowers in front of the US embassy.

Television is a very powerful media...

 

[Aelus]

<< The Palestinians have had 40 years to come to a peace with Israel, they haven't.

Every time a peace was about to be worked out, an act of terror was committed on Israel.


From a caller on NPR.
The fate of the Palestinians was written on the walls of the WTC. >>



even the most generous proposal from israel was refused, you want to know why? because it was still not acceptable. the palestinians will never accept any agreement, unless it states that the people in refuge camps in other lands can return, the colonies get removed from the occupied areas and they can declare independence. i think their demand is a very reasonable one, yet israel seems to prefer terrorism over a fair agreement.

mass extinction of the palestinians is equal or worse than the nazi acts during the war, and i don't think your president wants to become head of a country like that.

Aelus

 

[Czar]

An article about why people are cheering.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0,1300,550977,00.html
Read it without judging and try to understand their pain