Check out my idea for my car.

DuffmanOhYeah

Golden Member
May 21, 2001
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Ok, so I drive a 1988 Dodge Aries (Yeah, shutup :p) Anyway, as of late, among other problems, my exhaust system has been pissing me off. First of all, the muffler is really old and rusted out, so it sounds really bad. Secondly, as of late, it seems that the entire system (front to back) has started to shake itself loose. So, when I am idling, it shakes and apparently bounces against the car's under carriage and makes quite a bit of unpleasant noise.

So, I was thinking, I just got it checked for MD emissions inspection this summer, so I have a year and a half before I have to get one again. Im doubting the car will make it til then anyway. SO, my solution for how to fix the exhaust? (Other than pay the 400 to get it replaced front to back, cause the blue book on the car is barely worth that alone) CUT IT OFF That's right. Cut off the entire exhaust system. Just go like 4 inches of straight pipe from the outlet. Good idea? Bad idea? What do you all think? How much do I stand to inhale in the way of pollutants? Gimme your thoughts, Id like to hear em. :)
 

N8Magic

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
11,624
1
81
Do you have any idea how loud that will be? I had an old Hyundai Excel, and the exhaust fell off (all of it!), and my car was louder than a big Harley Davidson chopper. It was unbelieveable.

If you do it, be prepared to get a citation for disturbing the peace.
 

DuffmanOhYeah

Golden Member
May 21, 2001
1,903
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<< Do you have any idea how loud that will be? I had an old Hyundai Excel, and the exhaust fell off (all of it!), and my car was louder than a big Harley Davidson chopper. It was unbelieveable.

If you do it, be prepared to get a citation for disturbing the peace.
>>


Even better. :)
 

Goldfish

Platinum Member
Jun 10, 2001
2,157
0
0
For the love of all that is holy don't cut it off. It will sound like an earthquake wherever you drive.
 

DuffmanOhYeah

Golden Member
May 21, 2001
1,903
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<< For the love of all that is holy don't cut it off. It will sound like an earthquake wherever you drive. >>


Ok, so that's really not convincing me NOT to do it.

New plan. Think Im just gonna go with the cut off, tape a folgers can under my bumper, and put some G.I. Joe stickers on my window. Will that qualify me as a ricer? ;)
 

DuffmanOhYeah

Golden Member
May 21, 2001
1,903
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<< just get a tin can some wire cutters and some wire....... >>


And Im a little confused. does this make me a new car?
 

teriba

Golden Member
Oct 7, 2001
1,130
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Cutting off your exhaust will make you go slower. Unless your car is tuned for it, straight pipes or no pipes, will reduce the backpressure to virtually nill killing all power in the engine. You NEED some backpressure.
 
Feb 24, 2001
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<< Cutting off your exhaust will make you go slower. Unless your car is tuned for it, straight pipes or no pipes, will reduce the backpressure to virtually nill killing all power in the engine. You NEED some backpressure. >>

bingo, i dont know much about cars, but i know this much :)
 

oLLie

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2001
5,203
1
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<< Cutting off your exhaust will make you go slower. Unless your car is tuned for it, straight pipes or no pipes, will reduce the backpressure to virtually nill killing all power in the engine. You NEED some backpressure. >>



He doesn't care about making it fast. He cares about passing the emissions inspection. Speaking of which, it will help you fail the test if you cut off the exhaust. And in California at least, I don't think you can legally cut a part of your exhaust. You can replace an exhaust system with an aftermarket one, but in CA you cannot "modify" your stock exhaust system.
 

notfred

Lifer
Feb 12, 2001
38,241
4
0


<< Cutting off your exhaust will make you go slower. Unless your car is tuned for it, straight pipes or no pipes, will reduce the backpressure to virtually nill killing all power in the engine. You NEED some backpressure. >>



What for?

(yeah, running with absolutely no exhaust pipes can be bad, but you're not going to be running with open exhaust ports, you'll still have the manifold on there. The car should run fine (but loud) with no exhaust.
 

oLLie

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2001
5,203
1
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I could be mistaken but I think a lot of people are mis-reading his post:

#1: He doesn't want to go fast. He wants to pass the emissions test in a year and a half.
#2: He said he's planning on cutting off the entire exhaust system about 4 inches from the straight pipe.


I'm not sure what he meant by #2: whether he means cutting it off 4 inches from the straight pipe or 4 inches from the exhaust.
 

notfred

Lifer
Feb 12, 2001
38,241
4
0


<< I could be mistaken but I think a lot of people are mis-reading his post:

#1: He doesn't want to go fast. He wants to pass the emissions test in a year and a half.
#2: He said he's planning on cutting off the entire exhaust system about 4 inches from the straight pipe.


I'm not sure what he meant by #2: whether he means cutting it off 4 inches from the straight pipe or 4 inches from the exhaust.
>>



You're one of these people's who's misreading. He says he DOESNT CARE about emmisions in a year and a half, he doubts the car will last that long anyway.

"straight pipe" sounds like 4 inches after the catalytic converter, maybe?


ABOUT BACKPRESSURE

Backpressure and Exhaust Pipe Size


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q. Why do engines need backpressure? Won?t a larger exhaust pipe give my 944?s naturally aspirated engine more power?

A. I?ve always understood that you want to keep the exhaust gases moving, even once you get them out of the cylinder. One thing that will cause the gas to slow down is a sudden decrease in temperature, which is one reason why auto makers don?t try to cool the exhaust manifold. The other thing that can cause a decrease in flow velocity is rapid expansion and turbulence, like going from a small passage (like the exhaust port in the head) to a 6-inch pipe. A smaller-diameter pipe geometry will tend to keep the flow rate up, but it will also lose heat more quickly (less exhaust gas per linear inch of pipe). However, a large pipe will slow the velocity due to expansion. Worse still, the exhaust is constantly cooling from the moment it leaves the cylinder, meaning it?s getting denser and slower. See the problem here? It?s all about compromises. The proper pipe size is going to be influenced by the flow rate (volume rate, which is related to RPM and engine displacement), exhaust velocity (again related to RPM), exhaust temperature (constantly changing, and as high as 2,000&Mac251;F, if I remember right), and undoubtedly an array of other factors. All of this is dependent on the application: is this a street car, a race car, or something in between? Where will the engine spend most of its time? Idle, full throttle, part throttle?

I?ve also heard the thing about back pressure, but I believe that they?re really talking about flow velocities. That is, if you can keep the exhaust gases moving in the exhaust pipe, they will cause a small reduced-pressure area behind the closed exhaust valve, in the exhaust. This happens because the gases have momentum. They move away from the valve, creating a localized reduction in pressure. When the exhaust valve opens, this reduced-pressure zone will help evacuate the burnt gases from the cylinder. Or so the theory goes, as I understand it (two disclaimers there).

The bottom line is that Porsche has probably already considered all this and other factors when sizing the exhaust on the 944. Unless you?re significantly increasing the flow rate, you?re likely to cause more harm than good.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q. So what if you insulate the exhaust pipe, in an attempt to keep the flow rate up and cool the engine compartment, which would also benefitting the intake?

A. Flow rate is impacted by a number of different things in addition to raw temperature, including the surface roughness and pipe geometry. The problem with wrapping the exhaust system is that you?re only postponing the inevitable: the gases will eventually cool, even if it?s just a little further downstream, and there must be more than 6 feet of exhaust pipe in a 944.

You also hit upon another problem: materials. I?ve read of manufacturers using a ceramic lining inside the exhaust pipes to reduce the temperature loss, but I don't know how much difference it really makes. Also, ceramic-lined pipes may be aimed more towards reducing under-hood temperatures, which you?ve indicated would be impacted, than performance issues. As for wrapping, you?re going to start delving into the mechanics of materials if you start subjecting the exhaust manifold to more temperature. Of course, that?s one reason why the intake and exhaust sides of the 944 are on opposite sides of the vehicle, to isolate (as much as possible) the two systems. While it?s true that cooler air will result in a denser charge and slightly more power, the air pressure is usually much easier to increase, hence turbocharging. After all, we?re talking about engines that run at >200F already. It might make more sense to wrap the intake manifold rather than the exhaust manifold, if your goal is to get the coolest charge into the cylinders, or maybe run your intake through the A/C system...

If you?re after no-holds-barred performace, take a look at the funny cars: short exhaust pipes that rise vertically into the airstream that rushes by the car as it storms down the 1/4-mile strip. Keep in mind that any efficiency you get while working on the exhaust side won?t increase the efficiency of the intake or the combustion chamber itself. You?re really talking about an entire system here, and just changing the exhaust won?t necessarily get you any noticeable performance increases unless you?re only trying to shave tenths or hundredths of a second off your 1/4-mile time. If you want more power without turbocharging, you?d be better off looking into a combination of increased displacement, increased compression ratio, 4- and 5-valve heads, more radical camshafts, intake runner changes, etc. Or you could just get a 968 and have all these things already engineered by Porsche.

The way I figure it, I bought my NA 944 for its beautiful handling, daily usability, and decent economy. Mustangs and Camaros have nothing to fear at stoplights, but watch out for the corners.

 

DuffmanOhYeah

Golden Member
May 21, 2001
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<< I could be mistaken but I think a lot of people are mis-reading his post:

#1: He doesn't want to go fast. He wants to pass the emissions test in a year and a half.
#2: He said he's planning on cutting off the entire exhaust system about 4 inches from the straight pipe.


I'm not sure what he meant by #2: whether he means cutting it off 4 inches from the straight pipe or 4 inches from the exhaust.
>>


Well, actually I don't care at all about passing emissions. I just passed this summer so I won't have to get checked for another 18 months, and I sincerely doubt the car will make it that long anyway.

and I mean to have about 4 inches of pipe LEFT after it leaves the engine. In other words, have a 4 or so inch nub.

What I was really wondering is if
1. I will wake the dead (and that's not necessarily a deal breaker) and
2. How much noxious gas do I stand to inhale if I do this?
 

geno

Lifer
Dec 26, 1999
25,074
4
0
cutting the exhaust off will not make the car slower, it will kill the amount of torque he has in the low revs. Once you get up past 2500 or so rpms, there will be a noticable improvement in power, but below that, it'll be a little sluggish.
 

geno

Lifer
Dec 26, 1999
25,074
4
0


<< 2. How much noxious gas do I stand to inhale if I do this? >>


it's not a good idea, I'd at least run a pipe off to the side, as the exhaust at idle (stop lights and when you start it up) will get into the car...
 

Ladies Man

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,775
0
76
ever welded anything??? :)

i say just cut the bitches off... your loudness will turn heads and attract the lady's ;)
gas in the car could be a problem if you idle a lot at lights and such. If you can find a way to get the air to move from under the car to the side would be good. But if you can't you aren't going to die.
 

teriba

Golden Member
Oct 7, 2001
1,130
0
0
The whole point of exhaust tuning is to keep it at a constant velocity. The exhaust should have a minimum number of bends, and those that it does have should be smooth and large radius. I forget the target velocity, but there is an ideal velocity for exhaust gases. Any more or less and you will lose power. This is because you get turbulence in the pipe (yes, I took Chemical Engineering). Most exhausts produced now will be well above ideal if you remove the cat and exhaust, slowing you down. Now, if you remove the exhaust and cat and then replace it with a narrower straight pipe you will have solid gains. If you add an intake, cams, extra fuel injectors, etc. you will need more exhaust capacity. So, technically you might be able to remove the exhaust/cat and add an intake/cams/fuel and it might even out. Nobody probably understands this, but whatever.
 

MichaelD

Lifer
Jan 16, 2001
31,528
3
76
OMG! VORTEX22, THAT IS FRIGGIN' HILARIOUS! That commercial had the "hip music" and everything! ROFLMAOPIMP x 2! :Q

Duffmanohyeah, just set it on fire. Sorry.