cheap video editing system, if possible :)

[Schoolies]

I'm looking to edit a couple of home videos, so i want to buy some hardware that will do the job. I don't really mind waiting very long for it to compile or whatever....

I'm looking to buy a hard drive (SCSI, i'm sure), motherboard (dual?).

Suggestions on processor, ram, video card..... I have an old DTS Spark card.


Budge of around $800.... I know.... i know....

THanks!

 

[gregor7777]

Cheap and SCSI and Dual CPU do not fit well with each other.

If you're ok with an overnight compiling session (you don't have much of a choice), than really any 1Ghz+ Athlon will suit you well.

I use Divx often and just upgraded to a 1800 XP, but my 1.1 Athlon worked great.

 

[griffin]

Ok, so you want to edit some home videos. First question: Is this digital video or analog....do you have a firewire capable video camera ?

If you answered digital, AND firewire capable - all you really need is a firewire port. You can get this by getting a Soundblaster Audigy card.

If you answered analog then you might want to look into the ATI All-in-Wonder video card that supports analog/svhs IN.

Next. You DO NOT need to go SCSI. A nice 7200rpm HD will work great, I have been using 7200rpm drives and have not dropped a single frame.

I just recently built a p4 1.6a system with the ASUS p4b266-c mobo, 512mb ddr pc2100, pny gf3 ti200, SB Audigy, IBM 40gb 7200rpm, case, psu, DVD, floppy, for around $800 - monitor not included...

This system works really well for video editing. Yes you would be better off with dual processors, IF you were doing major editing. Since you are doing home videos it is not worth it if you are on a tight budget. You may be able to put an AMD dual proc system for around that price range, but I don't really know.

Unless you are adding dissolves and wipes and other fu-fu affects, you shouldn't worry about rendering time. Yes it will take a long time to render if you try to compile a 1 hr video all at once, but if you do it in sections you will be fine.

Sorry for going on so much. I hope this didn't confuse you more.

griffin

 

[Pauli]

Hey griffin, what video editing software are you using?

 

[griffin]

currently using premiere 6.0

 

[Schoolies]

Thanks griffin and greg, griffin - everything makes sense.

I think i'm going to get the dual processor and at least 512megs of ram because i'll be adding fu-fu affects, and instead of the SCSI drives I'll probably go and get an IBM or Maxtor 80gig hard drive.

I just want to make sure that I don't drop any frames and that I don't have to compress the video too much. I've been editing video with my 700mhz Athlon, 128mb ram, and leadtek geforece 256 but i need to compress it heavily and the quality sucks. So as long as the quality is really good, i'll be happy.

BTW, the Spark card that I have has a firewire port but my camera does not and i just looked up to see how much a converter would be and it seems to be in the $300 range, which isn't in my budget so analog it will be.

So i'm guessing I should get a really good video card? (as you suggested, All-in-wonder, or something better)

Thanks, again.

 

[Schoolies]

How about that Pinnacle Systems Studio Deluxe for around $250. It has both analog and digital connections.

 

[FrustratedUser]

Pinnacle makes really good editing systems. The graphics card is not that important if you go with a dedicated card.

 

[Schoolies]

edit

 

[Schoolies]

Ok, how about this:

Matrox G550
512MB DDR 2100 RAM
Maxtory 7200 40GB
Athlon XP 1900+
mobo still undecided but single processor


I'm going to try that and if I have to I'll buy the Pinnacle Studios Deluxe.

 

[IndyJaws]

For best results, you should have a separate drive dedicated for capture and editing. That way, you can reformat after large projects and not worry about fragmentation.

At a minimum, have a separate partition for capture/editing.

 

[ScottMac]

Juast as an "FYI:"


Premiere will use multiple procesors, but many/most/all of the plug-in CODECs for it will not. The included CODECs do not, as well as third party plug-ins, for example: Ligos LSX LE or Standard, the INDEO CODECs, Digigami LE or standard, Panasonic, Quicktime, HUFYUV, and the DiVx 4.x and 5.x...

Many of the companies have stand-alone products that DO work multi-processor (Ligos) or CODECs that work in a multiprocessor environment with other applications (HuffYUV, DiVx, MainConcept with VirtualDUb, Flask, or XMpeg), and work well.

To get multiprocessor encoding, using a frame server plug-in feeding a standalone application like VirtualDub or TmpGenc works really well. Basically a frame server plug-in exports the Timeline from Premiere to a filename, and the filename is used as the input to the other application in real-time.

AVIsynth is a fairly popular frame server, I think you can get it at vcdhelp.com, maybe doom9.com (and other places).

RAM is probably more important than processor for Premiere (though a fast procesor is always a good thing). When you start Premiere, it will grab half of all available RAM. If you don't have enough RAM for the length of video you're editing, it may hang or run *very* slow.

If you couple up Premiere with a capture/rendering board, like a Maxtor 2500, DVRaptor, or Pinnacle DV500+ or Pro One, it rocks right along...but you still need absolutely no less than 512M. It'll work with less, but it is still pretty slow. If you use a rendering board (as listed), they have hardware CODECs and will get by with way less processor and still give pretty good render times.

Also, a warning: I have had the Pinnacle DV500+ and the Pro One (still have the Pro One), it is very particular about the system hardware. It doesn't work with most motherboards or video cards. Pinnacle's tech support is slow to respond, and relies strictly on "cookie cutter" answers, they're favorite being "Your motherboard doesn't have enough {PCI bandwidth | Ram Bandwidth | IDE bandwidth - pick one}."

I was unfortunate enough to have selected non-mainstream hadware (as far as Pinnacle is concerned). I have a dual 2.0 Gig Xeon on an Intel 860 chipset with a Gig of high-end RAMBUS RAM, and an ATI DV8500 (retail) video card. I'm using an Adaptec 39160 SCSI controller with a 36G Seagate 15KRPM system drive and a Seagate U160 72G 10KRPM storage drive. This system was running XPPro (supported, according to the Pinnacle website) I tried several other video cards (Matrox 450, GF3Ti500, GF2mx200). The board never worked, the system hung, Premiere failed, captures were grossly flawed....totall unusable.

Maybe I should have bought better hardware.

The DV500+ also failed in a Dual PIII 1G on a VIA 266 chipset, a gig of RAM, and two Special Edition WD 120G harddrives, and an ATI AIW Radeon (and finally the GF3Ti500). Same thing, system hangs, corrupted files, bad captures. This system is running WIN2KPro. This system is operating at a marginal level, captures are OK, but attempting to playback the timeline causes the system to hang. Every Time.

The moral of the story, I guess, is that if you want to run a higher-end Pinnacle board, build the system around it. Due to it's (IMHO) bad hardware interface, poor firmware, and worst-in-the-industry drivers coupled with some of the poorest tech support I've ever had to use, I can't say I'd recommend it.

The Pro One will be going back this weekend.

BTW: The Matrox 2500 worked without a hitch on the original box (2.0Gig Xeon) and the dual PIII. I haven't tried the DV Raptor yet, but I expect to pick one up next month.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I'm using SuperMicro motherboards in both machines (a P4DC4+ and P370DDE).

Sorry to rant & ramble. Hopefully there's some useful information in there somewhere.

FWIW

Scott

 

[BreakApart]

Single CPU video editing -> P4 hands down
Dual System? With your budget you'll be going backwards into the P3 area. (unless you go AMD-then be prepared to have problems)


My Suggestion:
P4 1.6a or 1.8a
RDRAM 512mb
(2) 7200rpm drives (best choice to transfer/edit across drives)
Will be compatable with nearly anything you buy to edit or capture with.(In all honesty AMD has alot of problems with Video capture devices)


Sounds like a fun project, Good Luck.

 

[gregor7777]

Let's slow this down for a sec though:

(Put's on flame-retardent suit just in case we get a couple fanboys jumping in )

Anyhow, yes the P4 is a faster CPU for most video encoding apps, but you have to be careful about recommending the 1.6a and 1.8a. The only reason (albeit a damn good one) that it's usually recommended is for it's o/c ability.

Now, I know MOST people don't o/c, so to be honest I would buy the XP 1700 before I bought the 1.6a if I wasn't going to o/c. You'll get more performance, for a lower budget and throw some extra change into more HD space or whatever you like. Stability isn't an issue here as I've found both platforms to be equally stable in video editing. The software in this catagory can be the biggest drawback to stability.

Just my two cents here, SCottMac made some excellent points as well about dual cpus.

 

[manwithplan]

let the flames begin

 

[quadcells]

Since I do some video editing I have to say that I do not agree with ScottMac. I have used the DV500 for over two years and have made 2 systems with PII 5 systems with PIII's and on my third with the AMD XP and they all worked great. It only seems to get better with each new driver set. I know a lot of people are having problems, but then again a lot more people do not.

Good Luck

 

[BreakApart]

videoguys.com



<< We highly recommend Intel's P4 processors.
We feel that these systems offer you the highest level of performance and compatibility. We've found that our cards are easier to install on a P4 based system. Intel has also added a bunch of special performance enhancers to the P4 CPU and it's chipsets that give it outstanding performance for video editing.

Video CODECs and non-linear editing software are being optimized for these new processors. Not only will they give you better performance, but they will encode dramatically faster into MPEG2 for DVD authoring and the various streaming CODECs. Next year we expect to see real-time MPEG2 encoding and additional real-time performance based on further optimizations for P4.

Note: Older P4 systems may still be a problem, but if you buy a new P4 system today, you should expect excellent results!

We are now getting good results with new Athlon systems (1.4Ghz) running on 133Mhz bus speed motherboards!
We have had excellent success with our real-time cards in Athlon machines. We have been urging all our vendors to make sure their cards are fully compatible with Athlons. We like Athlon machines. We have tested them with some of our cards and we feel they are a great value. A few things you need to be aware of when configuring an Athlon machine:

Make sure the motherboard used in your Athlon is recommended by the capture card vendor
Make sure you are are running the latest BIOS version and have all the latest subsystem drivers. An example of a subsystem driver is the VIA 4 in 1 driver.
Use top notch components and memory, do not cut corners. Most reported problems we run into with Athlons are actually caused by using cheap or improperly matched components.
Be prepaired to spend some time tweaking your Athlon system in order to get our cards to run optimally. >>



Has nothing to do with being a fanboy either way...

He mentioned a budget $800, 1.6a or 1.8a will fit in that budget, with the ability to light o/c to say 2.0G easy. Using anything higher would bust the budget.
Fact is video editing components are finicky buggers, being they don't normally play well with AMD systems, honest fact nothing more.

Best of Luck in your choice...

 

[Nailbunny]

<< How about that Pinnacle Systems Studio Deluxe for around $250. It has both analog and digital connections. >>



Schoolies: I just recently got the Studio Deluxe and so far I'm pretty happy with it. I'm a newbie to video editing, but it has done the job well. One major drawback to the Deluxe VS. DV500+ is you CAN NOT capture within Premiere 6 using the Studio Deluxe. Premiere 6 won't recognize the deluxe card/drivers, and the drivers were not made to work in Premiere to capture. So..you have to capture using the Pinnacle software (which is actually pretty good) and just edit in Premiere. The breakout box with Deluxe is the same one as with the DV500+. It's handy to have, and the Deluxe card has 2 firewire ports for DV firewire cameras. For $250 I think the Deluxe is a great buy for small time editing.

FYI: As stated previously...definetly get a seperate hard drive for video...makes things much easier. Also 60GB or higher would be best bet.
Machine I'm editing on with no problems at all:

Athlon XP 1600+
Epox 8Kha+ mobo
512 MB 2400 DDR
IBM 60GXP 40gig (for video)
75GXp 45gig (system)
Soundblaster Live! Value
Windows XP

Works like a champ.

 

[gregor7777]

Has nothing to do with being a fanboy either way...

You're right, I wasn't saying you were a fanboy. I was just expecting jump in like "AMD sucks" and whatnot .

He mentioned a budget $800, 1.6a or 1.8a will fit in that budget, with the ability to light o/c to say 2.0G easy

You're right, but I think you can get more for you're money here WITHOUT the o/c from a AMD based system. That being said, the o/c potiential is fantastic with a 1.6a, so by all means if that's the plan, go with it.

Fact is video editing components are finicky buggers, being they don't normally play well with AMD systems, honest fact nothing more

No, NORMALLY (keyword here is Normally, or insert usually, or most often) they work just fine with AMD based systems, just as they do with Intel. It's the exception that doesn't work well with AMD based systems (or any system for that matter). Here I certainly disagree. And why AMD for that matter? Why not people with Creative products? Or VIA based chipsets? Or using Nvidia cards? How have YOU pinpointed AMD?

 

[BreakApart]

<< No, NORMALLY (keyword here is Normally, or insert usually, or most often) they work just fine with AMD based systems, just as they do with Intel. It's the exception that doesn't work well with AMD based systems (or any system for that matter). Here I certainly disagree. And why AMD for that matter? Why not people with Creative products? Or VIA based chipsets? Or using Nvidia cards? How have YOU pinpointed AMD? >>


My mention of AMD compatibility is taken directly from respected video editing guides/sites on the web, along with product bulletins, from companies like Dazzle, Pinnacle, and Hauppauge.(products a video hobbyist is likely to use)

I simply gave the poster my recommendation, as requested.
Why you are taking offense to my recommendation to avoid AMD is quite frankly "fanboyish" I posted a link and direct quote about my mention of AMD problems that may be encountered, if you feel the need to counter this please post a link to a reputable site mentioning contrary advice, other than your opinion.

Besides it's totally up to the poster to choose where to spend the $$$, and i for one wish them the best regardless which system they purchase.

 

[gregor7777]

In response to:

My mention of AMD compatibility is taken directly from respected video editing guides/sites on the web, along with product bulletins, from companies like Dazzle, Pinnacle, and Hauppauge.(products a video hobbyist are likely to use)


and

I posted a link and direct quote about my mention of AMD problems that may be encountered, if you feel the need to counter this please post a link to a reputable site mentioning contrary advice, other than your opinion.


Actually, I'll use your site for my response. On said site I see compatibitity issues with Compaq, Dell, Sony HP, VIA Chipsets, VIA's 4-in1 drivers, internal modems, blah, blah, blah. Quite the list of compatibility issues to just say AMD is buggy with video editing, don't you agree? I did however find two seperate recomendations for AMD processors.

While many of our vendors will not comment or recommend these systems, we have had no major reported problems. In fact we have had many users swear by them. Just make sure you don't skimp on RAM or storage!
and once again
We have had excellent success with our real-time cards in Athlon machines. We have been urging all our vendors to make sure their cards are fully compatible with Athlons. We like Athlon machines. We have tested them with some of our cards and we feel they are a great value.

Even your reference to the site mentions VIA subsystems, motherboards, BIOS, and motherboard tweaking. Nothing to do with AMD, just other components. What about a Athlon + SiS combo? On the other hand, what about a P4 matched up with a VIA mobo?

Besides it's totally up to the poster to choose where to spend the $$$, and i for one wish them the best regardless which system they purchase

As do I. And from DIRECT expienerce with the p4 1.8a and an 1800+ XP, the XP whoops it in overall. (Not o/ced of course)

As for the fanboy comment, I build whatever people want. They want a P4, they get a P4. That's my attitude towards it. So I'm a fanboy of whatever gets someone to buy a system off of me.

 

[Eug]

G4 iMac with SuperDrive?

 

[Pauli]

Um, I'm a newbie just looking to jump into video editing. I've got a 1.6A @ 2.1Ghz, 512MB RAM, Radeon 8500, MSI 845 Ultra ARU, Audigy retail (with Firewire port), ATI TVWonder, 80GB WD system drive, and a completely empty 80GB Seagate Barracuda IV. My question: is the Firewire port on my Audigy good enough to use with a DV camera or do I need a different Firewire card with some kind of compression?

Thanks for any replies.

 

[gregor7777]

Your Audigy's (if it's working correctly) should be just fine. From there the codec you choose you compress with is up to you. There are plenty, I use Divx for most apps, but sometimes I use mpeg2.

 

[Schoolies]

Thank you for all the responses.

ScottMAc, thanks for the head up on the hardware compatiblity issues.

Nailbunny, that is pretty much the system I'm goign to end up getting. I was debating over getting the deluxe or the 500, thanks for the info on both.

greg and breakapart, i'm going to get athlon, maybe 1900+,... i've been using the AMD since their k6's and have had no problems.

After posting my message I discovered videoguys.com, they have a lot of good information.

If anyone has any more helpfull information feel free to keep on posting.