Cheap track toy: 1999-2004 Mustang V6 or 1994-1998 Mustang GT

[Kelvrick]

I've been getting more intersted in track events and doing other local things like autox and rallycross. I love my Subaru Outback but don't want to spend all this money turning it into an uncomfortable DD or potentially breaking parts.

The standard option is a Miata, but they're hard to find in good condition and I don't want to spend too much. The ones in my "play" price range look like crap and since I don't have the garage space, I don't want to leave parked in front of my house. That brings me to something "different."

The fourth generation Ford Mustangs. RWD, come in manual and spare parts should be everywhere. I've found a few year ~2000 v6 manuals from 2000-2500 and a few year ~1996 v8 gt's for the same price range.

I'm looking for a car that I'll register, insure and drive to the tracks that will provide some creature comforts like air conditioning. More V6s were sold, obviously, but there is something about saying you have the V8. Granted, I'm not too interested in the power bump.

What does ATOT think? Any weakpoints in those cars I should be aware of?

EDIT: I'm probably hoping to start my project out under $5,000. For example, some mustangs in the area I've found. About $3,000 for the cars, $500 on tires, $400 on new rotors and pads and the rest on misc suspension and chassis bracing.
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/3603957849.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/3601488548.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/3593781127.html

EDIT: 3/28/2013
So I've been buying modifications for my outback to get it a little more exciting to drive and was looking at a new set of wheels the other day. Talking to a friend, one thing led to another and we started looking at pre odb2 subaru wagons (I love wagons, could you tell?). I mean, when a set of wheels is close to $1,000, why not spend a little more and get the rest of the car with it?! As of about 10 minutes ago, I now own a 1994 Subaru Impreza Wagon 2.5rs. See pics and description below. A friend went to pick it up for me and I'll be united with the new addition to the family tomorrow night when he drives it over. Paid $750. What does ATG think? It will be my track car for both on road and off (rallycross).

 

[ballmode]

No contest, the V8

the v6's have been HORRIBLE until it made the 300hp

 

[Kelvrick]

No contest, the V8

the v6's have been HORRIBLE until it made the 300hp

Is it really that bad? 1999 and up V6 should be making 190hp in a 3100lb body (16.3lbs per horse). The 1995 V8 was 215 in a 3300lb package (15.3lbs per horse).

 

[Black2na]

yes the V6 mustangs are THAT bad in those years. your best bet would be a 94-95 mustang for ease and cheapness of adding power. but the 96-98 mod motors arnt too too bad either. but anyway to shake it your really gonna want a V8 car. and spend some good money on the suspension. they have a lot of companies that make those cars handle amazing.

 

[ballmode]

the gearing, the lack of LSD, the fact that V6 motor is 70s tech... all a recipe for mediocre

Try to get a 1995-1998 Cobra, has a 32V V8 with 300hp I think around 300tqe

 

[Kelvrick]

the gearing, the lack of LSD, the fact that V6 motor is 70s tech... all a recipe for mediocre

Try to get a 1995-1998 Cobra, has a 32V V8 with 300hp I think around 300tqe

The cobras seem to be way out of my price range. It seems they come with bilsteins though. I would think if they're the ones from the factory, they'll need to be replaced/rebuilt anyway. Is there any other advantage of the cobra over the gt?

From my extensive research of the last hour or so, it looks like whatever I pick up will probably get a new set of bilsteins, eibachs, and brake pads. As a track car, interior aside from the two front seats will be stripped out. I feel like I would be happy inside a 200hp+ 3000lb package.

 

[Black2na]

do more research on spring rates for a track toy the eibachs JCH has mathed that they are normaly to soft hotckis might have something a little stiffer but the bilsteins are a perfect start. and a set of portfield R4S are a must great street track pad! the mustangs are horribly small braking setups anything you can do to help. and yeah 200hp and 2700-3000lbs is a great starting point and you can turn the wick up once you gain experence!

 

[JulesMaximus]

the gearing, the lack of LSD, the fact that V6 motor is 70s tech... all a recipe for mediocre

Try to get a 1995-1998 Cobra, has a 32V V8 with 300hp I think around 300tqe

'96-98. The '95 still had the 5.0l engine, not the DOHC 4.6l engine. Beware though, those motors are expensive to fix if something goes wrong.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

5.0L V8 from '94 or '95

Suspension, brakes & tires will be where you spend your money first.

power comes after the above

Steeda 5-link, lower control arms, and new springs/struts, sway bars will have you an awesome machine.

http://www.steeda.com/store/steeda-5-link-rear-suspension-system-for-ford-mustang.html

Pick up a set of Cobra Baer brakes with some performance pads for the fronts.

 

[ballmode]

The Cobra motor responds better to mods and has beefier internals

32v over 24v compared to the regular GT V8

 

[exdeath]

'96-98. The '95 still had the 5.0l engine, not the DOHC 4.6l engine. Beware though, those motors are expensive to fix if something goes wrong.

For those years, go with the 95. The early 4.6s were uninspiring.

 

[exdeath]

The Cobra motor responds better to mods and has beefier internals

32v over 24v compared to the regular GT V8

24v didnt arrive on the GT until 2005 with the retro S197 platform. 96-04 were a SOHC 16v.

 

[JulesMaximus]

5.0L V8 from '94 or '95

Suspension, brakes & tires will be where you spend your money first.

power comes after the above

Steeda 5-link, lower control arms, and new springs/struts, sway bars will have you an awesome machine.

http://www.steeda.com/store/steeda-5-link-rear-suspension-system-for-ford-mustang.html

Pick up a set of Cobra Baer brakes with some performance pads for the fronts.

3.73 rear gears are a good upgrade too (for the 5spd manual cars-my '94 came with a 2.73 rear gear) but fuel economy will suffer.

 

[JulesMaximus]

24v didnt arrive on the GT until 2005 with the retro S197 platform. 96-04 were a SOHC 16v.

Not the Mustang Cobras. Those were DOHC engines.

You are right though, the SOHC motors were pretty weak and 16V motors.

 

[LTC8K6]

I remember the 2010 V6 Mustang with the manual was surprisingly quick.

 

[JCH13]

If you want to keep things reliable on the track, don't go crazy with power mods. Improve tires, brakes, cooling, and suspension first, in that order.

I'm sure Mustang's have a great following in the aftermarket. Do good research, read everything you can find about good suspension setups. Don't settle for 'I got some moar low springs and new shocks and it rides so much better now!' those idiots were probably riding around on four blown shocks and trashed bushings so ANYTHING would have been better. Same goes for tire reviews.

Like Black2NA said, when I was looking for a good suspension setup for my Miata I found out that Eibach seems to have formula that's "drop the car 1-1.5 inches, increase spring rate 20%" with no regard to controlling roll stiffness or matching the springs to any particular shock. They usually wind up too soft for how much they change the roll center-to-cg distance of a car, and so car the car will roll MORE with lowering springs.

I will stop ranting about stupid aftermarket suspension companies before I get out of hand...

I'm going to play devils advocate a little. I don't know how the reliability compares between a V6 and a V8, that would be my first concern, but I think the V6 has some advantages to partly offset the power deficit. With a smaller engine up front it will have a better weight distribution and it will be lighter. V6s are generally less desirable, so buying one will be cheaper. If more of them were made then parts might be cheaper too.

There's a lot to consider, but I don't think you could really go wrong as long as you're honest with yourself about your use of the vehicle, desire for horse-ponies, and wallet capacity.

 

[Arkaign]

V8!

I'd prefer the 5.0 over the 4.6 for the older years for sure.

The thing about the old Mustang V6's is that making more power is pretty darned difficult, while adding power to the 5.0 is practically cake. There's heaps of stuff out there, and if you scour forums/CL/etc, you can get a lot of it really cheap as well. Building a 350hp 5.0 is something you can almost do in your sleep, and if you get real serious, 500+hp is doable (but will cost a bit more money, and ideally you'd just start with an out-of-body full internal build for that motor, along with chassis reinforcements + suspension replacement).

 

[Kelvrick]

You guys are going to get my wallet into trouble. Purpose wise, I'm looking to have this as a track car mainly with some rallycross thrown in so it will not be a power car. I will not be looking to do quarter mile straight line runs. Well, I might do some just for fun, but that won't be what the car is for.

I'll have to go test drive some mustangs to see how I feel about their respective power levels. Right now, all else aside from the engine being equal (google seems to indicate same brakes between v6 and 5.0 gt), I will probably go with the V6 for the lighter vehicle and parts availability. Unless I am completely crazy, I would think there were a lot more V6's sold than V8's and are now occupying junk yards. Unless the test drive tells me what everyone here seems to be trying to tell me about the anemic power level of the V6.

First things on my mind are suspension and brakes. Power, if ever is on the bottom of the list.

Nobody has called me an idiot for choosing these two cars yet though, so I guess it isn't too bad of a choice. Does anyone have some recommendations for good mustang forums?

 

[JulesMaximus]

If you want to keep things reliable on the track, don't go crazy with power mods. Improve tires, brakes, cooling, and suspension first, in that order.

I'm sure Mustang's have a great following in the aftermarket. Do good research, read everything you can find about good suspension setups. Don't settle for 'I got some moar low springs and new shocks and it rides so much better now!' those idiots were probably riding around on four blown shocks and trashed bushings so ANYTHING would have been better. Same goes for tire reviews.

Like Black2NA said, when I was looking for a good suspension setup for my Miata I found out that Eibach seems to have formula that's "drop the car 1-1.5 inches, increase spring rate 20%" with no regard to controlling roll stiffness or matching the springs to any particular shock. They usually wind up too soft for how much they change the roll center-to-cg distance of a car, and so car the car will roll MORE with lowering springs.

I will stop ranting about stupid aftermarket suspension companies before I get out of hand...

I'm going to play devils advocate a little. I don't know how the reliability compares between a V6 and a V8, that would be my first concern, but I think the V6 has some advantages to partly offset the power deficit. With a smaller engine up front it will have a better weight distribution and it will be lighter. V6s are generally less desirable, so buying one will be cheaper. If more of them were made then parts might be cheaper too.

There's a lot to consider, but I don't think you could really go wrong as long as you're honest with yourself about your use of the vehicle, desire for horse-ponies, and wallet capacity.

I bought my '94 GT coupe (it was 2 years old at the time) with Eibach springs already installed and it had a short throw shifter, pulleys and MAC headers (which were absolute shit). First mod I did was 3.73 rear gears, they also straightened out a problem with the rear of the car crashing over high speed dips due to a huge rubber block on the diff which should have been replaced when the previous owner lowered it. I added fully adjustable Koni yellow sport shocks, urethane suspension and sway bar bushings, a set of Flowmaster mufflers and a set of Ford Motorsport shorty headers. I kind of wish I still had that car actually...

 

[boomhower]

Get a 5.0. Early 4.6's were a disgrace to the V8.

 

[Arkaign]

You guys are going to get my wallet into trouble. Purpose wise, I'm looking to have this as a track car mainly with some rallycross thrown in so it will not be a power car. I will not be looking to do quarter mile straight line runs. Well, I might do some just for fun, but that won't be what the car is for.

I'll have to go test drive some mustangs to see how I feel about their respective power levels. Right now, all else aside from the engine being equal (google seems to indicate same brakes between v6 and 5.0 gt), I will probably go with the V6 for the lighter vehicle and parts availability. Unless I am completely crazy, I would think there were a lot more V6's sold than V8's and are now occupying junk yards. Unless the test drive tells me what everyone here seems to be trying to tell me about the anemic power level of the V6.

First things on my mind are suspension and brakes. Power, if ever is on the bottom of the list.

Nobody has called me an idiot for choosing these two cars yet though, so I guess it isn't too bad of a choice. Does anyone have some recommendations for good mustang forums?

Yes! It's not so much just that the peak power is low, but the thing revved super slow even brand new, and the redline is very low. It's just an incredibly unsatisfying motor to work with. The old Mustang SVT i4's were more entertaining to drive, quite honestly.

 

[KeithP]

Go-kart would be a funner toy.

-KeithP

 

[thedarkwolf]

The shifter carts look like a blast when they show up for autox and if you have cart tracks around would also be really fun to race. They aren't super expensive either.

 

[phucheneh]

What you're looking for is called a 'fox'...'body'. 94-95's work, too. But if you want a track car, I highly doubt you want a 4.6L (96+).

79-86 are the cheap ones. 87-93 have become overvalued, last I saw.

 

[brainhulk]

what size tires do those mustangs use? I'd say a lot of my track toy budget goes towards tires and brake pads/rotors/fluid.

I'd assume the cost for miata size tires is considerably less