Cheap Impact sockets stronger than good chrome sockets?

[fleabag]

I was thinking about a thread where some old timer was complaining about his craftsman sockets breaking on him while he was tightening a bolt and that he swore off craftsman altogether and went with snapon. Well I was thinking that instead of using chrome sockets for really difficult work, why not use an impact socket with a ratchet? Shouldn't an impact socket be far more robust and capable of handling more torque loads than the standard chrome sockets? Why not just have a set of impact sockets instead of chrome sockets?

 

[Howard]

An impact socket will bend more than a regular.

 

[Bignate603]

Was the crack starting around the numbers on the side of the socket? They switched to laser etching on craftsman sockets because they found the numbers in the sides of the socket was giving cracks a place to start.

 

[Vette73]

Chrome/silver sockets are usually just cast and are not meant for air guns.

Black sockets are supposed to be hardened and are meant for air tools.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Chrome/silver sockets are usually just cast and are not meant for air guns.

Black sockets are supposed to be hardened and are meant for air tools.

I don't think they would be hardened. Hardness is usually proportional to brittleness, which is what you don't want in an impact application.

 

[woodie1]

I have, in my youth, broken regular sockets (standard plated type) using an 18" breakover bar but have never had an impact wrench socket fail.

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Chrome/silver sockets are usually just cast and are not meant for air guns.

Black sockets are supposed to be hardened and are meant for air tools.

I don't think they would be hardened. Hardness is usually proportional to brittleness, which is what you don't want in an impact application.

Not all steels are created equal. There are toughened steels are not too brittle at all.

But, more importantly the wall is thicker on impact sockets.

EDIT: all sockets are hardened. I've never seen a cast socket. I would think all sockets are forged. To pack that much strength into that small of a cross-section of steel you have to develop a grain of concentric rings, like a tree. To do that you have to heat the steel and squish it into shape. Even if you use cheap and brittle steel.

 

[SparkyJJO]

So far, my craftsman sockets are taking abuse just fine. Really beat on a few of them this past week. Even if one does end up breaking, free replacement.

Better than I can say for my old el cheapo chinese set that I broke 4 sockets using just the standard ratchet

 

[Zenmervolt]

Strength alone is not the sole consideration. Good chrome sockets will be much more precisely machined than cheap impact sockets. Even if the cheap impact sockets are indeed stronger, there will be a much greater chance that the cheap sockets will round off a bolt or otherwise not fit quite right.

ZV

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
So far, my craftsman sockets are taking abuse just fine. Really beat on a few of them this past week. Even if one does end up breaking, free replacement.

Better than I can say for my old el cheapo chinese set that I broke 4 sockets using just the standard ratchet

Agreed. The only time I've broken Craftsman sockets is that small 3/8" to 1/4" adapter. Those suckers will sheer off so easily it's not even funny.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Squisher

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Chrome/silver sockets are usually just cast and are not meant for air guns.

Black sockets are supposed to be hardened and are meant for air tools.

I don't think they would be hardened. Hardness is usually proportional to brittleness, which is what you don't want in an impact application.

Not all steels are created equal. There are toughened steels are not too brittle at all.

But, more importantly the wall is thicker on impact sockets.

EDIT: all sockets are hardened. I've never seen a cast socket. I would think all sockets are forged. To pack that much strength into that small of a cross-section of steel you have to develop a grain of concentric rings, like a tree. To do that you have to heat the steel and squish it into shape. Even if you use cheap and brittle steel.

actually, a tree's structure is designed to resist bending, not torsion. in any event, forging will most certainly increase the strength of the sockets. hot forging is easier than cold forging, but less effective at work hardening. heat treatment will also help depending on the type of steel used.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: Squisher

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Chrome/silver sockets are usually just cast and are not meant for air guns.

Black sockets are supposed to be hardened and are meant for air tools.

I don't think they would be hardened. Hardness is usually proportional to brittleness, which is what you don't want in an impact application.

Not all steels are created equal. There are toughened steels are not too brittle at all.

But, more importantly the wall is thicker on impact sockets.

EDIT: all sockets are hardened.

Probably, yes, but I doubt that impact sockets are hardened to the same degree as regular sockets.

 

[Apex]

Originally posted by: fleabag
I was thinking about a thread where some old timer was complaining about his craftsman sockets breaking on him while he was tightening a bolt and that he swore off craftsman altogether and went with snapon. Well I was thinking that instead of using chrome sockets for really difficult work, why not use an impact socket with a ratchet? Shouldn't an impact socket be far more robust and capable of handling more torque loads than the standard chrome sockets? Why not just have a set of impact sockets instead of chrome sockets?

Impact sockets tend to be thicker walled, 6-sided (instead of 12), and tougher (lower carbon content and different heat treatment).

 

[fleabag]

Where do you guys recommend buying old/used equipment? Is CL and ebay really the only option? I went to a fleamarket today and I didn't find anything of use and I'm considering going to the fleamarket in San Jose but it's a really far drive for me and I'm not sure if it'd be worth it.

 

[AMCRambler]

The other reason not to use impact sockets with your hand ratchet is that the hand ratchets drive tip is not made to be impact strength. So if you're breaking your sockets, then switch to an impact grade socket, you'll likely snap your ratchets drive bit off.

 

[alfa147x]

Originally posted by: AMCRambler
The other reason not to use impact sockets with your hand ratchet is that the hand ratchets drive tip is not made to be impact strength. So if you're breaking your sockets, then switch to an impact grade socket, you'll likely snap your ratchets drive bit off.

thats happened here, i only whip out the impact sockets for really tough bolts though
because some bolts would widen my chrome sockets rendering them useless

 

[alkemyst]

There are no set standards. Usually impacts are simply made thicker and more heavy duty. As such they usually will not fit tight areas like a standard socket.

 

[lurk3r]

Originally posted by: fleabag
Where do you guys recommend buying old/used equipment? Is CL and ebay really the only option? I went to a fleamarket today and I didn't find anything of use and I'm considering going to the fleamarket in San Jose but it's a really far drive for me and I'm not sure if it'd be worth it.

Craftsman has lost me, my $300 1/2" electric impact lasted about a year and a half, they told me warrenty on "electric' tools was only one year ... strike one (Windsor shop). I was stuck in Alabama on a job without tools, and hopped over to Sears again for their standard $140 ratchet set, the 3/8 drive ratchet lasted about 3 months and they refused to warranty it too. The harbor freight $20 replacement has been holding strong for 5 years now.

I'd first look around for a Harbor Freight, gawd I love that place, a real lifetime warranty on most of their tools, and a great selection.

If you want used, there has to be pawn shops all over, I would not personally buy anything off ebay, CL is marginally more reputable, and definately stay out of flea markets.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: lurk3r

Originally posted by: fleabag
Where do you guys recommend buying old/used equipment? Is CL and ebay really the only option? I went to a fleamarket today and I didn't find anything of use and I'm considering going to the fleamarket in San Jose but it's a really far drive for me and I'm not sure if it'd be worth it.

Craftsman has lost me, my $300 1/2" electric impact lasted about a year and a half, they told me warrenty on "electric' tools was only one year ... strike one (Windsor shop). I was stuck in Alabama on a job without tools, and hopped over to Sears again for their standard $140 ratchet set, the 3/8 drive ratchet lasted about 3 months and they refused to warranty it too. The harbor freight $20 replacement has been holding strong for 5 years now.

I'd first look around for a Harbor Freight, gawd I love that place, a real lifetime warranty on most of their tools, and a great selection.

If you want used, there has to be pawn shops all over, I would not personally buy anything off ebay, CL is marginally more reputable, and definately stay out of flea markets.

The 1 year warranty on power tools is well known...what power tools at harbor freight have a lifetime warranty? how is a tool replacement made?

I call shens on being denied a ratchet replacement at 3 months or 3 years.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: lurk3r

Originally posted by: fleabag
Where do you guys recommend buying old/used equipment? Is CL and ebay really the only option? I went to a fleamarket today and I didn't find anything of use and I'm considering going to the fleamarket in San Jose but it's a really far drive for me and I'm not sure if it'd be worth it.

Craftsman has lost me, my $300 1/2" electric impact lasted about a year and a half, they told me warrenty on "electric' tools was only one year ... strike one (Windsor shop). I was stuck in Alabama on a job without tools, and hopped over to Sears again for their standard $140 ratchet set, the 3/8 drive ratchet lasted about 3 months and they refused to warranty it too. The harbor freight $20 replacement has been holding strong for 5 years now.

I'd first look around for a Harbor Freight, gawd I love that place, a real lifetime warranty on most of their tools, and a great selection.

If you want used, there has to be pawn shops all over, I would not personally buy anything off ebay, CL is marginally more reputable, and definately stay out of flea markets.

The 1 year warranty on power tools is well known...what power tools at harbor freight have a lifetime warranty? how is a tool replacement made?

I call shens on being denied a ratchet replacement at 3 months or 3 years.

I would have to go with this, never had a problem with craftsman ratchets or sockets. The new guys in the shop tend to use normal sockets in he impact guns and craftsman replaces them every time, the shop goes through maybe a dozen sockets a year, just bring the socket in and get a new one (not the whole set, just a single socket basis)

In all my years working on cars, I have never broken a ratchet and never seen quality ratchet break without someone slipping a length of pipe over one and trying to use it as a breaker bar or something. That's why using the right tool for the job is so critical, that way you don't break stuff and you don't have downtime.

 

[lurk3r]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: lurk3r

Originally posted by: fleabag
Where do you guys recommend buying old/used equipment? Is CL and ebay really the only option? I went to a fleamarket today and I didn't find anything of use and I'm considering going to the fleamarket in San Jose but it's a really far drive for me and I'm not sure if it'd be worth it.

Craftsman has lost me, my $300 1/2" electric impact lasted about a year and a half, they told me warrenty on "electric' tools was only one year ... strike one (Windsor shop). I was stuck in Alabama on a job without tools, and hopped over to Sears again for their standard $140 ratchet set, the 3/8 drive ratchet lasted about 3 months and they refused to warranty it too. The harbor freight $20 replacement has been holding strong for 5 years now.

I'd first look around for a Harbor Freight, gawd I love that place, a real lifetime warranty on most of their tools, and a great selection.

If you want used, there has to be pawn shops all over, I would not personally buy anything off ebay, CL is marginally more reputable, and definately stay out of flea markets.

The 1 year warranty on power tools is well known...what power tools at harbor freight have a lifetime warranty? how is a tool replacement made?

I call shens on being denied a ratchet replacement at 3 months or 3 years.

I've still got the POS, it will occasionally jump teeth resulting in barked knuckles, they had some kind of line about how it was their tier 2 tools or something, but I paid top dollar for it and there was no obvious designation, I just figured it was a 'normal' craftsman set. If I wanted walmart quality tools I would not have spent $140 at sears.

Harbor freight is definitely not a quality place, its more a "this is probably going to get stolen so I don't want to spend alot on it" place. Sorry if I misrepresented.