Cheap 16GB flash drives

[Muse]

I needed a couple (just bought 3 TCL 43" 4K Roku TVs that have a 90 minute time-shifting feature if you dedicate a 16GB flash drive in the USB port), see that they are selling in quantity now pretty cheaply. Amazon has 10 packs of 16GB flash drives of various unheard of brands, quite a few of them and the cost is ~$28-30. I read reviews and they are generally pretty good. Some people do report problems. Yeah, I don't need 10 right now, but figure they do go bad and I can probably use them eventually... if they are OK. Might have been smarter to buy 2-3 ~$5 branded drives like Samsung. I lost a 128GB tiny flash drive that I kept on my keychain. Didn't lose it, it just stopped working all of a sudden. Bummer! I have a 1GB flash drive that I've been using daily, I mean it gets used every day, gets temporary files written to it and it's been chugging along for 10+ years. I expected it to die years ago, but it's still working! Maybe they made them better then?

I bought a pack of 10 off Amazon (where they appear cheaper than Ebay), Kootion, and the box and drives look incredibly generic. The box has no branding and the drives themselves say nothing whatsoever. Not a single symbol of any kind! Before I mark them with a sharpie (e.g. 1, 2, ... 10), I figure I should check them out and see if they are good. I'm wondering how to deal with this box of 10 16GB thumb drives.

So, FULL FORMAT each in FAT32? They are FAT32. I figure full formatting will maybe ensure they are OK and will identify any bad sectors off the bat. Am I right in this?

 

[hojnikb]

I would first test the real capacity with h2testw

no need for a full format, flash drives already remap bad blocks automatically.

 

[Muse]

I would first test the real capacity with h2testw

no need for a full format, flash drives already remap bad blocks automatically.

Ah, well I already full formatted all 10 of them (the last 3 are about 80% done right now, on this laptop).

Is the real capacity apt to vary? Would that basically be the full capacity minus bad sectors?

What site would you use to download h2testw... i.e. to be safe... been burned before with embedded malware on utilities and I get nervous downloading utilities unless it's directly from the developers. Of course, even then it might not be safe... but probably safer.

 

[Muse]

I downloaded from Softpedia, just pretty much read the English readme.txt and am running it on one of the flash drives. None of the drives have a lick of data on them. The readme says this is actually preferable. Says ~37 minutes left.

 

[VirtualLarry]

no need for a full format, flash drives already remap bad blocks automatically.

Not true. You do often need to "Full Format" Adata (UV128 models, at least, 16GB) flash drives, before using them with the MS Media Creation Tool. It is incredibly intolerant of any sorts of media errors, and those Adata drives apparently aren't fully-tested and remapped from the factory. That's what users are apparently for, backed up with a "lifetime" warranty.

 

[VirtualLarry]

it's been chugging along for 10+ years. I expected it to die years ago, but it's still working! Maybe they made them better then?

Yes, most definitely. Back then, they used SLC or MLC. Nowadays, they use the cheapest possible grade of TLC or QLC. At least the cheaper drives do. SD cards too.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Is the real capacity apt to vary? Would that basically be the full capacity minus bad sectors?

Nope, some drives are outright fakes.

Go buy a "2T" USB flash drive off of ebay for $25, from a vendor in China or otherwise non-USA vendor, and check it out. Nevermind that 2TB worth of flash memory, even the lowest grade, will cost you $200 USD...

 

[Muse]

Well, so far I have full formatted all ten. No reported errors, nothing anomalous have I noticed. Haven't written a byte to any yet. I tested one with h2testw v. 1.4 (I actually had this on my machine, in my NAS download tree, didn't realize it until I went to tuck away today's download. Don't know if I ever used it).

Well, the one I tested today apparently passed:

Test finished without errors.
You can now delete the test files *.h2w or verify them again.
Writing speed: 6.47 MByte/s
Reading speed: 15.8 MByte/s
H2testw v1.4

Don't know if those are decent speeds or not. I haven't checked the capacity. Would h2testw test the capacity and report a problem if it was less than spec?

Checking the tested drive's properties in Windows, this is what's reported, with the test files still on it:
- - - -
Used space: 15,701,409,792 bytes 14.6 GB

Free space: 720,896 bytes 704 KB

Capacity: 15,702,130,688 bytes 14.6GB
- - - -

I've labeled each with a numbered piece of tape. I'm going to test the other 9.

 

[hojnikb]

Not true. You do often need to "Full Format" Adata (UV128 models, at least, 16GB) flash drives, before using them with the MS Media Creation Tool. It is incredibly intolerant of any sorts of media errors, and those Adata drives apparently aren't fully-tested and remapped from the factory. That's what users are apparently for, backed up with a "lifetime" warranty.

full formatting and remapping "bad" blocks does nothing for a flash based device. Since LBAs do not align with actual blocks on the flash, but shuffle constantly around, marking them at filesystem level does absolutely nothing. Full formatting just eats your endurance for nothing.
if the devices uses half decent flash controller, it will map actual bad blocks on the fly. If it cant do that properly, mr. trash bin awaits.
Also, every flash device should come prechecked with factory bad blocks (almost every flash die has them). If its not, it time for trash bin again.

 

[Muse]

2 of about 1/2 of them seem to be failing testing. I tried testing 3 at once, maybe not a good idea. I'll retest those and do one at a time now.

 

[VirtualLarry]

if the devices uses half decent flash controller, it will map actual bad blocks on the fly. If it cant do that properly, mr. trash bin awaits.
Also, every flash device should come prechecked with factory bad blocks (almost every flash die has them). If its not, it time for trash bin again.

Welcome to Adata, LOL. They can't even make sure every flash drive that comes off of their line has proper firmware.

 

[hojnikb]

Welcome to Adata, LOL. They can't even make sure every flash drive that comes off of their line has proper firmware.

If it didn't have proper firmware, it wouldn't work at all. Normally, when initializing flash drives (with manufacture production tool) it does a quick check of bad blocks, so out of the box, they should already be marked. If they're not, they'll be once you try to write to them.

 

[VirtualLarry]

If it didn't have proper firmware, it wouldn't work at all. Normally, when initializing flash drives (with manufacture production tool) it does a quick check of bad blocks, so out of the box, they should already be marked. If they're not, they'll be once you try to write to them.

Read the reviews. Some people received drives that were nominally functionally DOA, but when they used Adata's factory re-write / re-flash tool, they worked.

 

[VirtualLarry]

If they're not, they'll be once you try to write to them.

Which is why I said they you likely need to full-format Adata (at least, the UV128 drives) before using them with the MS Media Creation Tool. If it hits a bad block, it will error, and you will have to start all over / re-download Windows 10 again. For me, with a gigabit FIOS connection, that's not so bad, but for someone with DSL, that could take another whole day.

 

[Shmee]

Depending on usage, wouldn't exFAT be preferable?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Depending on usage, wouldn't exFAT be preferable?

Not for boot USBs. UEFI booting requires a FAT32 partition with the EFI bootloader file.

 

[Shmee]

Yes I know this is true, but as far as I can tell, he isn't using them to boot from. Sounds like they are storage for the TV or something.

 

[hojnikb]

Which is why I said they you likely need to full-format Adata (at least, the UV128 drives) before using them with the MS Media Creation Tool. If it hits a bad block, it will error, and you will have to start all over / re-download Windows 10 again. For me, with a gigabit FIOS connection, that's not so bad, but for someone with DSL, that could take another whole day.

if you hit a bad block, controller has to remap it transparently. Thats how all flash devices work due to inherent design of flash.
This must either be a factory error or something bad with their MPTool.

 

[VirtualLarry]

if you hit a bad block, controller has to remap it transparently. Thats how all flash devices work due to inherent design of flash.

No, it can only do that during a write sector operation. Reads would necessarily block, and error. Probably MS Media Creation Tool does a Read-verify for each sector or block, before writing it, rather than blindly writing.

 

[Muse]

Yes I know this is true, but as far as I can tell, he isn't using them to boot from. Sounds like they are storage for the TV or something.

I'll use up to 3 of them for that TV timeshifting. But the TV reformats the drive. Don't know if it keeps the FAT32 file system. I think if I take it out of the TV and plug it into a PC I'm asked to format it.

 

[Muse]

I tested all ten 16GB flash drives using H2testw version 1.4. Some several times. 9 of them test with no errors. One tests consistently with errors, each of 3 runs writing and verifying. The last test had this result:

The media is likely to be defective.
14.6 GByte OK (30666704 sectors)
24 KByte DATA LOST (48 sectors)
Details:0 KByte overwritten (0 sectors)
0 KByte slightly changed (< 8 bit/sector, 0 sectors)
24 KByte corrupted (48 sectors)
0 KByte aliased memory (0 sectors)
First error at offset: 0x00000001b14d1000
Expected: 0x00000001b14d1000
Found: 0x00001001b14d1000
H2testw version 1.3
Writing speed: 6.43 MByte/s
Reading speed: 12.7 MByte/s
H2testw v1.4

I figure, having bought them through Amazon (and fulfilled by Amazon), that I can get a remedy for the bad drive. Whatever goes on in the testing isn't fixing this, it actually seems to be getting worse. Here's the complete set of results:

The media is likely to be defective.
14.6 GByte OK (30666736 sectors)
8 KByte DATA LOST (16 sectors)
Details:0 KByte overwritten (0 sectors)
0 KByte slightly changed (< 8 bit/sector, 0 sectors)
8 KByte corrupted (16 sectors)
0 KByte aliased memory (0 sectors)
First error at offset: 0x00000000007b3808
Expected: 0x007b3800073
84811
Found: 0x207b380007384a13
H2testw version 1.3
Writing speed: 6.72 MByte/s
Reading speed: 13.4 MByte/s
H2testw v1.4

Kootion 6 (Run 2):

The media is likely to be defective.
14.6 GByte OK (30666742 sectors)
5 KByte DATA LOST (10 sectors)
Details:0 KByte overwritten (0 sectors)
0 KByte slightly changed (< 8 bit/sector, 0 sectors)
5 KByte corrupted (10 sectors)
0 KByte aliased memory (0 sectors)
First error at offset: 0x000000023dfa3420
Expected: 0x56501a4443a62420
Found: 0x56701a4443a62420
H2testw version 1.3
Writing speed: 6.90 MByte/s
Reading speed: 13.0 MByte/s
H2testw v1.4

Kootion #6 (Run 3)

The media is likely to be defective.
14.6 GByte OK (30666704 sectors)
24 KByte DATA LOST (48 sectors)
Details:0 KByte overwritten (0 sectors)
0 KByte slightly changed (< 8 bit/sector, 0 sectors)
24 KByte corrupted (48 sectors)
0 KByte aliased memory (0 sectors)
First error at offset: 0x00000001b14d1000
Expected: 0x00000001b14d1000
Found: 0x00001001b14d1000
H2testw version 1.3
Writing speed: 6.43 MByte/s
Reading speed: 12.7 MByte/s
H2testw v1.4