Charlottesville: Man who punched Unite the Right Organizer found guilty of Assault. $1 Fine

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Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
877
126
Slugging a Nazi in the back of the head is basically admitting your words and ideas were not enough to defeat their message. Granted, that's entirely possible, as Hitler found out in WWII when he was defeated by the collective might of the allies. And, I'll be the first to acknowledge violence for the fine effective tool it is, but I firmly believe it should be the last option, reserved for when all others have been tried and failed.

Are those rejoicing over Nazi-smacking going on sale for $1 willing to concede as much? Is the really how we want to defeat American Nazism?

'Cause, if so, I'll hold 'em while you guys do the punching. Or vice versa. Either way is good. ;)
 

Josephus312

Senior member
Aug 10, 2018
586
172
71
That mere fact that you struggle with the choice says enough about you.

You know what? I am not struggling with any of this at all.

Not because the Nazi didn't deserve it or the guy who clocked him doesn't deserve to pay for his act of violence but rather because I would have clocked that Nazi without any complaint of sentencing even if it was a year in prison.

You want to exact vigilante justice you have to pay the consequences, we can't just write off someone's actions because we find the viewpoints of the victim reprehensible. If we do that we can just as well let Trumpists hunt liberals down without reproach because after all, Trump is the President, the majority elected leader as per the electoral collage.

Your heart is in the right place, your mind is in the wrong place. The laws do not change because you support the cause and if you are willing to disregard the law for one but not the other to suit your own agenda then you are PER DEFINITION a fascist.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,199
18,669
146
You know what? I am not struggling with any of this at all.

Not because the Nazi didn't deserve it or the guy who clocked him doesn't deserve to pay for his act of violence but rather because I would have clocked that Nazi without any complaint of sentencing even if it was a year in prison.

You want to exact vigilante justice you have to pay the consequences, we can't just write off someone's actions because we find the viewpoints of the victim reprehensible. If we do that we can just as well let Trumpists hunt liberals down without reproach because after all, Trump is the President, the majority elected leader as per the electoral collage.

Your heart is in the right place, your mind is in the wrong place. The laws do not change because you support the cause and if you are willing to disregard the law for one but not the other to suit your own agenda then you are PER DEFINITION a fascist.

I'm not sure how you extrapolate that from my post. I'm simply not struggling with which person we'd be better off without, but greenman certainly seems to be.

I applaud your dedication.
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
877
126
Still... who among us wouldn't punch a Nazi given the opportunity?
It might feed the soul in the moment, but I would eventually regret giving them the satisfaction of being on the right side of the law for once.
 

Josephus312

Senior member
Aug 10, 2018
586
172
71
I'm not sure how you extrapolate that from my post. I'm simply not struggling with which person we'd be better off without, but greenman certainly seems to be.

I applaud your dedication.

The problem, that I tried to illustrate is that we'd be better off without either of them but have to keep both of them in the name of liberalism.

I'm a liberal to the god damn bone marrow in my spine and while I would punch that Nazi, I'd expect to be arrested for it and I would welcome that because while I want to teach him that his speech does not come without consequences I would absolutely want the government to protect his free speech.
 

Josephus312

Senior member
Aug 10, 2018
586
172
71
It might feed the soul in the moment, but I would eventually regret giving them the satisfaction of being on the right side of the law for once.

No, see I would expect to be arrested and I should be. He learns that while he can speak freely his speech has consequences (there are millions of people like me, standing in line to be the next to punch him) and the government would arrest me to protect his free speech.

Everything would be working as it should and a Nazi would have had his face caved in.

It's a win-win.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Let's review. Who brought this shit storm of White Supremacist bullshit to these folks' nice little town? Jason Kessler. They had actual Nazis marching in the street, beatings, dozens injured & one murder. Absolutely glorious, huh?

And the next day the stupid motherfucker just has to step out in front of the microphone w/o a phalanx of police surrounding him... of course somebody punched him. He got away easy. It could have been a lot worse.

Given the lack of participation in recent scheduled events & the huge turnout of counter demonstrators they seem to have received the appropriate message loud & clear. Fucking Nazis.
 
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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
136
I think the key word in the opening post was "re-trial".
That word raised many questions and leads to many conclusions:
1) it wasn't an open and shut case in some regard
2) They decided to "re-trial" a punch at a brawl? Is that really the best use of societies dollars. Trials are crazy expensive here. I would rather the money spent litigating and adjudicating this go to maybe feeding orphans and the elderly or something, or putting books in schools.

They have a system there where if you get a verdict from a judge you can "appeal" the verdict and get a jury trial. That was the "re-trial." The judge had actually sentenced him to 30 days, but the jury decided to give him no jail time. I'm not familiar with this practice, or the practice of having juries dole out sentences.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
They have a system there where if you get a verdict from a judge you can "appeal" the verdict and get a jury trial. That was the "re-trial." The judge had actually sentenced him to 30 days, but the jury decided to give him no jail time. I'm not familiar with this practice, or the practice of having juries dole out sentences.

Yeh, it's funny how the jury sent out the same message as the thousands of counter protesters who now show up to stand against bigotry.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
136
Yeh, it's funny how the jury sent out the same message as the thousands of counter protesters who now show up to stand against bigotry.

Presumably, it was within the jury's discretion to hand out this particular sentence. While the identity of the victim here shouldn't make a difference for their determination of guilt or innocence, I can understand why it can make a difference in the sentence. Motives and context matter for sentencing.

This particular Nazi is the same one who tweeted "Heather Heyer was a fat, disgusting Communist. Communists have killed 94 million. Looks like it was payback time" which even other Nazis objected to, probably because they saw how bad it looked more than disagreeing with it. A think the jury here was sending out a message with this light sentence, which is, if a Nazi chooses to go hold a press conference the day after his fellow Nazis kill someone, gets punched without being physically injured at all, boo-effing-hoo. That's pretty much how I feel about it too.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,936
5,560
136
You know what? I am not struggling with any of this at all.

Not because the Nazi didn't deserve it or the guy who clocked him doesn't deserve to pay for his act of violence but rather because I would have clocked that Nazi without any complaint of sentencing even if it was a year in prison.

You want to exact vigilante justice you have to pay the consequences, we can't just write off someone's actions because we find the viewpoints of the victim reprehensible. If we do that we can just as well let Trumpists hunt liberals down without reproach because after all, Trump is the President, the majority elected leader as per the electoral collage.

Your heart is in the right place, your mind is in the wrong place. The laws do not change because you support the cause and if you are willing to disregard the law for one but not the other to suit your own agenda then you are PER DEFINITION a fascist.
This is spot on.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,936
5,560
136
That mere fact that you struggle with the choice says enough about you.
You're absolutely right. I believe in the rule of law above vigilante justice. The Nazi was a piece of crap, but he didn't attack anyone. So the choice is between a loud mouth idiot, or a violent criminal. That you choose the violent criminal says a lot about you.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,199
18,669
146
You're absolutely right. I believe in the rule of law above vigilante justice. The Nazi was a piece of crap, but he didn't attack anyone. So the choice is between a loud mouth idiot, or a violent criminal. That you choose the violent criminal says a lot about you.

Maybe you should review a history book once in a while. Peaceful Nazis dont exist.

He did the crime, and the jury found him guilty. The question you posed was who we'd be better off with. Not something I'm struggling with.
 

Josephus312

Senior member
Aug 10, 2018
586
172
71
Let's review. Who brought this shit storm of White Supremacist bullshit to these folks' nice little town? Jason Kessler. They had actual Nazis marching in the street, beatings, dozens injured & one murder. Absolutely glorious, huh?

And the next day the stupid motherfucker just has to step out in front of the microphone w/o a phalanx of police surrounding him... of course somebody punched him. He got away easy. It could have been a lot worse.

Given the lack of participation in recent scheduled events & the huge turnout of counter demonstrators they seem to have received the appropriate message loud & clear. Fucking Nazis.

*growls* Jason Kessler... I'd like to fist fuck him right in the temporal lobe.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
You're absolutely right. I believe in the rule of law above vigilante justice. The Nazi was a piece of crap, but he didn't attack anyone. So the choice is between a loud mouth idiot, or a violent criminal. That you choose the violent criminal says a lot about you.

I just look at it this way- Americans have been punching Nazis in the face for 77 years. It's a traditional activity. It probably won't stop any time RSN, either. They & all their White Supremacist friends need to take that into account. At this point, it should be perfectly clear that now is not their time. STFU. Go home. Nobody wants to hear it.
 
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Josephus312

Senior member
Aug 10, 2018
586
172
71
I just look at it this way- Americans have been punching Nazis in the face for 77 years. It's a traditional activity. It probably won't stop any time RSN, either. They & all their White Supremacist friends need to take that into account. At this point, it should be perfectly clear that now is not their time. STFU. Go home. Nobody wants to hear it.

Well, when you're right, you're right.

I see a Nazi, I punch a Nazi... that's how that works.
 

wahdangun

Golden Member
Feb 3, 2011
1,007
148
106
I like how actual Nazis get characterized as "people who have different opinions than you". This isn't about which ice cream flavor is best, asshole.
Sure you can, but you'll have to face the consequences for it.
You seem concerned for the Nazi that got punched.

Because I'm free speech absolutism, so what ever your view or opinions is I like to protect them, so using violence to silence your opposing views is the text book definition of fascism's.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,136
30,084
146
I didn't know that you can punch people because you don't like his word ? Or have different opinions than you?

It's so clear who was the Nazi.

It is clear. The guy that proudly called himself a Nazi and loudly espouses Nazi ideas is the Nazi.

...oh, you were being a fool? Carry on.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Because I'm free speech absolutism, so what ever your view or opinions is I like to protect them, so using violence to silence your opposing views is the text book definition of fascism's.

Americans get passionate about Nazis, White Supremacists, Skinheads & their pals descending in a horde on their cities & towns. It's pretty much unacceptable everywhere. Not everybody will keep their cool & that's why we need for the cops to protect these hateful & ignorant assholes. It won't always work out that way. I'm not sure that it should when they're begging for an attitude adjustment. Here's a song about it-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvEWYQGaFIc
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Do not approve. As much as I can't stand these racist alt-right incel pissants, unless they attack you first you should keep your jabs verbal. People who get violent for no other reason than 'I Disagree' should feel actual penalties. You're entitled to defend yourself, but there is no such entitlement to attacking because your feelings are hurt. Let the dipshits catch that charge, and face a real consequence or two as a result.

It wouldn't be cool to see a KKK skinhead do that and get a $1 fine, that's Old South good ol boy stuff right there I tell you hhwat.

you reap what you sow