Charlie Weis is over-rated

[BlancoNino]

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news?slug=dw-notredame080606&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

"For a decade, the Irish didn?t even talk a good game, the once proud program emasculated by coaches who either wanted extreme humility (Ty Willingham) or used excessive excuses (Bob Davie). "

Excuse me, but isn't Ty Willingham the one who recruited these players for Notre Dame? He was given 3 years...which meant Willingham had NO TIME to get HIS fundementals and players implemented into the school.

"Weis is a better coach than most and, quite possibly, as good as the college game has. Time will tell, but at the very least, he enters every game projecting a confidence from the sideline that wasn?t seen around here for a decade."

Yes, time will tell. He's had one season, and they got beat by 14 points in their bowl game.

Why all of this hype for Notre Dame?

Willingham's sure to have a chip on his shoulder. Watch out for the Huskies in the next few years...and watch the Notre Dame go down the tubes...

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Why all of this hype for Notre Dame?

Because Notre Dame is the most revered college football program among the sports writers. Every year you can almost feel them trying to will Notre Dame up as high as possible in the polls.

 

[rsd]

Well to me it seems Weiss had more success with his system after one year using Willingham's players than Willingham did in his tenure. Imagine if Weiss has his players

Only reason I like ND is because of Weiss (Patriots fan here).

 

[tfinch2]

Why not all the hype?

What exactly did Willingham do at Notre Dame besides lose? He went to the Gator Bowl on someone else's talent, then it was a downward spiral from there.

Weis took the same talent Willingham had when he was losing and made them winners. Now image what he'll do when his recruiting classes are playing.

 

[DougK62]

Weis IS an awesome coach. Anyone who knows their football can easily see this.

Notre Dame is talked about because people want to hear about Notre Dame. Duh. It's a school with a lot of football history/tradition, and they have the largest fan base of any college football team.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: tfinch2
Why not all the hype?

What exactly did Willingham do at Notre Dame besides lose? He went to the Gator Bowl on someone else's talent, then it was a downward spiral from there.

Weis took the same talent Willingham had when he was losing and made them winners. Now image what he'll do when his recruiting classes are playing.

It's not the same talent though. Willingham was no doubt using experienced players recruited by the former coach...while keeping his players red-shirted. Players get better every year, and last year, many of Willingham's players were Juniors and Seniors, perfect for the program. I'm sure Willingham was planning on using them as well.

Rebuilding a team doesn't happen overnight. Willingham had a plan, but got fired before it was implemented.

 

[ZOOYUKA]

Originally posted by: DougK62
Weis IS an awesome coach. Anyone who knows their football can easily see this.

Notre Dame is talked about because people want to hear about Notre Dame. Duh. It's a school with a lot of football history/tradition, and they have the largest fan base of any college football team.

QFT. NBC has exclusive coverage of all there games. To my knowledge they are the only university that has ever had this done.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: ZOOYUKA

Originally posted by: DougK62
Weis IS an awesome coach. Anyone who knows their football can easily see this.

Notre Dame is talked about because people want to hear about Notre Dame. Duh. It's a school with a lot of football history/tradition, and they have the largest fan base of any college football team.

QFT. NBC has exclusive coverage of all there games. To my knowledge they are the only university that has ever had this done.

Most of the ratings probably come from people tuning in to root against Notre Dame. At least I know they do from me

 

[ZOOYUKA]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: ZOOYUKA

Originally posted by: DougK62
Weis IS an awesome coach. Anyone who knows their football can easily see this.

Notre Dame is talked about because people want to hear about Notre Dame. Duh. It's a school with a lot of football history/tradition, and they have the largest fan base of any college football team.

QFT. NBC has exclusive coverage of all there games. To my knowledge they are the only university that has ever had this done.

Most of the ratings probably come from people tuning in to root against Notre Dame. At least I know they do from me

I have been guilty of that too. That is not very Catholic of me.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: ZOOYUKA

I have been guilty of that too. That is not very Catholic of me.

Not very Irish of me either

 

[msparish]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: tfinch2
Why not all the hype?

What exactly did Willingham do at Notre Dame besides lose? He went to the Gator Bowl on someone else's talent, then it was a downward spiral from there.

Weis took the same talent Willingham had when he was losing and made them winners. Now image what he'll do when his recruiting classes are playing.

It's not the same talent though. Willingham was no doubt using experienced players recruited by the former coach...while keeping his players red-shirted. Players get better every year, and last year, many of Willingham's players were Juniors and Seniors, perfect for the program. I'm sure Willingham was planning on using them as well.

Rebuilding a team doesn't happen overnight. Willingham had a plan, but got fired before it was implemented.

Just as some information, Notre Dame does not red-shirt players. That is one of the reasons that Urban Meyer didn't take the job (he was offered it before Weiss was even considered).

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: msparish

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: tfinch2
Why not all the hype?

What exactly did Willingham do at Notre Dame besides lose? He went to the Gator Bowl on someone else's talent, then it was a downward spiral from there.

Weis took the same talent Willingham had when he was losing and made them winners. Now image what he'll do when his recruiting classes are playing.

It's not the same talent though. Willingham was no doubt using experienced players recruited by the former coach...while keeping his players red-shirted. Players get better every year, and last year, many of Willingham's players were Juniors and Seniors, perfect for the program. I'm sure Willingham was planning on using them as well.

Rebuilding a team doesn't happen overnight. Willingham had a plan, but got fired before it was implemented.

Just as some information, Notre Dame does not red-shirt players. That is one of the reasons that Urban Meyer didn't take the job (he was offered it before Weiss was even considered).

Ah, thanks for the information. Regardless, Willingham's recruits were no more than Sophomores by the time he left.

 

[BlueWeasel]

Originally posted by: msparish

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: tfinch2
Why not all the hype?

What exactly did Willingham do at Notre Dame besides lose? He went to the Gator Bowl on someone else's talent, then it was a downward spiral from there.

Weis took the same talent Willingham had when he was losing and made them winners. Now image what he'll do when his recruiting classes are playing.

It's not the same talent though. Willingham was no doubt using experienced players recruited by the former coach...while keeping his players red-shirted. Players get better every year, and last year, many of Willingham's players were Juniors and Seniors, perfect for the program. I'm sure Willingham was planning on using them as well.

Rebuilding a team doesn't happen overnight. Willingham had a plan, but got fired before it was implemented.

Just as some information, Notre Dame does not red-shirt players. That is one of the reasons that Urban Meyer didn't take the job (he was offered it before Weiss was even considered).

Really? I didn't know that.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: msparish

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: tfinch2
Why not all the hype?

What exactly did Willingham do at Notre Dame besides lose? He went to the Gator Bowl on someone else's talent, then it was a downward spiral from there.

Weis took the same talent Willingham had when he was losing and made them winners. Now image what he'll do when his recruiting classes are playing.

It's not the same talent though. Willingham was no doubt using experienced players recruited by the former coach...while keeping his players red-shirted. Players get better every year, and last year, many of Willingham's players were Juniors and Seniors, perfect for the program. I'm sure Willingham was planning on using them as well.

Rebuilding a team doesn't happen overnight. Willingham had a plan, but got fired before it was implemented.

Just as some information, Notre Dame does not red-shirt players. That is one of the reasons that Urban Meyer didn't take the job (he was offered it before Weiss was even considered).

Yes they do. They just have a more involved process to do it.

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: tfinch2
Why not all the hype?

What exactly did Willingham do at Notre Dame besides lose? He went to the Gator Bowl on someone else's talent, then it was a downward spiral from there.

Weis took the same talent Willingham had when he was losing and made them winners. Now image what he'll do when his recruiting classes are playing.

Willingham had a plan, but got fired before it was implemented.

Maybe he should have removed the losing a lot part from his plan.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: brandonbull

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: tfinch2
Why not all the hype?

What exactly did Willingham do at Notre Dame besides lose? He went to the Gator Bowl on someone else's talent, then it was a downward spiral from there.

Weis took the same talent Willingham had when he was losing and made them winners. Now image what he'll do when his recruiting classes are playing.

Willingham had a plan, but got fired before it was implemented.

Maybe he should have removed the losing a lot part from his plan.

His record was 21-15...

Winning takes talented players.

 

[bignateyk]

Originally posted by: ZOOYUKA

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: ZOOYUKA

Originally posted by: DougK62
Weis IS an awesome coach. Anyone who knows their football can easily see this.

Notre Dame is talked about because people want to hear about Notre Dame. Duh. It's a school with a lot of football history/tradition, and they have the largest fan base of any college football team.

QFT. NBC has exclusive coverage of all there games. To my knowledge they are the only university that has ever had this done.

Most of the ratings probably come from people tuning in to root against Notre Dame. At least I know they do from me

I have been guilty of that too. That is not very Catholic of me.

++, and this is coming from an irish catholic (red hair and all). I hate notre dame, and nothing made me happier than watching ohio state wipe the floor with them in their BCS bowl last year.

 

[wyvrn]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: tfinch2
Why not all the hype?

What exactly did Willingham do at Notre Dame besides lose? He went to the Gator Bowl on someone else's talent, then it was a downward spiral from there.

Weis took the same talent Willingham had when he was losing and made them winners. Now image what he'll do when his recruiting classes are playing.

It's not the same talent though. Willingham was no doubt using experienced players recruited by the former coach...while keeping his players red-shirted. Players get better every year, and last year, many of Willingham's players were Juniors and Seniors, perfect for the program. I'm sure Willingham was planning on using them as well.

Rebuilding a team doesn't happen overnight. Willingham had a plan, but got fired before it was implemented.

You don't show a good understanding of major collegiate athletics with this post. Coaches can make improvements using their system and superior coaching/leadership abilities, married with the talent base that edifies the system the coaches want in place.

Ty had several years and ND got worse with each season. It was obvious that reqardless of thep layers Ty had/was recruiting, ND was going nowhere in his tenure. And it is also recognized that recruiting to ND under Davie and Willingham was substantially worse than ND traditionally is used to in football. Most informed football people felt the program was going nowhere, and at ND, that just doesn't cut it.

I think the most suprising thing about last year was the fact Weiss used Ty's recruits and they had such a great season. ND has very little talent on defense, outside of 3-4 players. Offensively they are pretty good, but are not a well-balanced team. The fact they could even hang with USC last year was stunning, and hence the reason most knowledgeable football analysts believe the sky is the limit under Weiss. In a couple of years he will have his own players, a legitimate and very productive pro system, and this will all beget better recruiting classes in the future.

 

[Thraxen]

Or it will all just collapse. I have seen what Blanco is talking about before... though I doubt it in this case.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: wyvrn

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: tfinch2
Why not all the hype?

What exactly did Willingham do at Notre Dame besides lose? He went to the Gator Bowl on someone else's talent, then it was a downward spiral from there.

Weis took the same talent Willingham had when he was losing and made them winners. Now image what he'll do when his recruiting classes are playing.

It's not the same talent though. Willingham was no doubt using experienced players recruited by the former coach...while keeping his players red-shirted. Players get better every year, and last year, many of Willingham's players were Juniors and Seniors, perfect for the program. I'm sure Willingham was planning on using them as well.

Rebuilding a team doesn't happen overnight. Willingham had a plan, but got fired before it was implemented.

You don't show a good understanding of major collegiate athletics with this post. Coaches can make improvements using their system and superior coaching/leadership abilities, married with the talent base that edifies the system the coaches want in place.

Ty had several years and ND got worse with each season. It was obvious that reqardless of thep layers Ty had/was recruiting, ND was going nowhere in his tenure. And it is also recognized that recruiting to ND under Davie and Willingham was substantially worse than ND traditionally is used to in football. Most informed football people felt the program was going nowhere, and at ND, that just doesn't cut it.

I think the most suprising thing about last year was the fact Weiss used Ty's recruits and they had such a great season. ND has very little talent on defense, outside of 3-4 players. Offensively they are pretty good, but are not a well-balanced team. The fact they could even hang with USC last year was stunning, and hence the reason most knowledgeable football analysts believe the sky is the limit under Weiss. In a couple of years he will have his own players, a legitimate and very productive pro system, and this will all beget better recruiting classes in the future.

But it is my very sincere belief that Willingham would have shared equal, if not better success this season if he would have stayed.

 

[wyvrn]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: wyvrn

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: tfinch2
Why not all the hype?

What exactly did Willingham do at Notre Dame besides lose? He went to the Gator Bowl on someone else's talent, then it was a downward spiral from there.

Weis took the same talent Willingham had when he was losing and made them winners. Now image what he'll do when his recruiting classes are playing.

It's not the same talent though. Willingham was no doubt using experienced players recruited by the former coach...while keeping his players red-shirted. Players get better every year, and last year, many of Willingham's players were Juniors and Seniors, perfect for the program. I'm sure Willingham was planning on using them as well.

Rebuilding a team doesn't happen overnight. Willingham had a plan, but got fired before it was implemented.

You don't show a good understanding of major collegiate athletics with this post. Coaches can make improvements using their system and superior coaching/leadership abilities, married with the talent base that edifies the system the coaches want in place.

Ty had several years and ND got worse with each season. It was obvious that reqardless of thep layers Ty had/was recruiting, ND was going nowhere in his tenure. And it is also recognized that recruiting to ND under Davie and Willingham was substantially worse than ND traditionally is used to in football. Most informed football people felt the program was going nowhere, and at ND, that just doesn't cut it.

I think the most suprising thing about last year was the fact Weiss used Ty's recruits and they had such a great season. ND has very little talent on defense, outside of 3-4 players. Offensively they are pretty good, but are not a well-balanced team. The fact they could even hang with USC last year was stunning, and hence the reason most knowledgeable football analysts believe the sky is the limit under Weiss. In a couple of years he will have his own players, a legitimate and very productive pro system, and this will all beget better recruiting classes in the future.

But it is my very sincere belief that Willingham would have shared equal, if not better success this season if he would have stayed.

I am not saying Willingham is a bad coach, I think he is good. But to compare him, who has never really won anything, to Weiss, who architected some of the most balanced offenses that won superbowls in the NFL, is pretty lame. They aren't even in the same category. Weiss > Willingham, and I think it's obvious to most everyone. To say otherwise is either ignorance or anti-ND sentiment.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: wyvrn

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: wyvrn

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: tfinch2
Why not all the hype?

What exactly did Willingham do at Notre Dame besides lose? He went to the Gator Bowl on someone else's talent, then it was a downward spiral from there.

Weis took the same talent Willingham had when he was losing and made them winners. Now image what he'll do when his recruiting classes are playing.

It's not the same talent though. Willingham was no doubt using experienced players recruited by the former coach...while keeping his players red-shirted. Players get better every year, and last year, many of Willingham's players were Juniors and Seniors, perfect for the program. I'm sure Willingham was planning on using them as well.

Rebuilding a team doesn't happen overnight. Willingham had a plan, but got fired before it was implemented.

You don't show a good understanding of major collegiate athletics with this post. Coaches can make improvements using their system and superior coaching/leadership abilities, married with the talent base that edifies the system the coaches want in place.

Ty had several years and ND got worse with each season. It was obvious that reqardless of thep layers Ty had/was recruiting, ND was going nowhere in his tenure. And it is also recognized that recruiting to ND under Davie and Willingham was substantially worse than ND traditionally is used to in football. Most informed football people felt the program was going nowhere, and at ND, that just doesn't cut it.

I think the most suprising thing about last year was the fact Weiss used Ty's recruits and they had such a great season. ND has very little talent on defense, outside of 3-4 players. Offensively they are pretty good, but are not a well-balanced team. The fact they could even hang with USC last year was stunning, and hence the reason most knowledgeable football analysts believe the sky is the limit under Weiss. In a couple of years he will have his own players, a legitimate and very productive pro system, and this will all beget better recruiting classes in the future.

But it is my very sincere belief that Willingham would have shared equal, if not better success this season if he would have stayed.

I am not saying Willingham is a bad coach, I think he is good. But to compare him, who has never really won anything, to Weiss, who architected some of the most balanced offenses that won superbowls in the NFL, is pretty lame. They aren't even in the same category. Weiss > Willingham, and I think it's obvious to most everyone. To say otherwise is either ignorance or anti-ND sentiment.

I'm not saying Weis is a bad coach...I just think he's way overhyped.

 

[wyvrn]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: wyvrn

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: wyvrn

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: tfinch2
Why not all the hype?

What exactly did Willingham do at Notre Dame besides lose? He went to the Gator Bowl on someone else's talent, then it was a downward spiral from there.

Weis took the same talent Willingham had when he was losing and made them winners. Now image what he'll do when his recruiting classes are playing.

It's not the same talent though. Willingham was no doubt using experienced players recruited by the former coach...while keeping his players red-shirted. Players get better every year, and last year, many of Willingham's players were Juniors and Seniors, perfect for the program. I'm sure Willingham was planning on using them as well.

Rebuilding a team doesn't happen overnight. Willingham had a plan, but got fired before it was implemented.

You don't show a good understanding of major collegiate athletics with this post. Coaches can make improvements using their system and superior coaching/leadership abilities, married with the talent base that edifies the system the coaches want in place.

Ty had several years and ND got worse with each season. It was obvious that reqardless of thep layers Ty had/was recruiting, ND was going nowhere in his tenure. And it is also recognized that recruiting to ND under Davie and Willingham was substantially worse than ND traditionally is used to in football. Most informed football people felt the program was going nowhere, and at ND, that just doesn't cut it.

I think the most suprising thing about last year was the fact Weiss used Ty's recruits and they had such a great season. ND has very little talent on defense, outside of 3-4 players. Offensively they are pretty good, but are not a well-balanced team. The fact they could even hang with USC last year was stunning, and hence the reason most knowledgeable football analysts believe the sky is the limit under Weiss. In a couple of years he will have his own players, a legitimate and very productive pro system, and this will all beget better recruiting classes in the future.

But it is my very sincere belief that Willingham would have shared equal, if not better success this season if he would have stayed.

I am not saying Willingham is a bad coach, I think he is good. But to compare him, who has never really won anything, to Weiss, who architected some of the most balanced offenses that won superbowls in the NFL, is pretty lame. They aren't even in the same category. Weiss > Willingham, and I think it's obvious to most everyone. To say otherwise is either ignorance or anti-ND sentiment.

I'm not saying Weis is a bad coach...I just think he's way overhyped.

You are welcome to your opinion, but it seems rather misinformed. He already has a lot of success and there is no reason to doubt him unless you have an bent against anything ND, which you appear to.

 

[brandonbull]

I've listened to a few interviews by Maurice Stovall(WR) and he said it was a huge difference between Weis' Offense and Willingham's Offense.

 

[j00fek]

how can you over rate a coach with 3SB rings? you have no base IT BELONGS TO US