Charles G. Koch buys FSU Econ dept.

[Siddhartha]

I doubt that this is the first time something like this has happened where a donor gave approval at some stage of the selection of a funded chair or research.

 

[Double Trouble]

The notion of having an outside party be able to have some control certainly calls into question the integrity and impartiality of the institution, no matter who the third party is and what their political affiliation. Yes, most uni's and colleges are very much left leaning in most of their departments and staffing, but that still doesn't make this particular type of arrangement more palatable.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Terrible decision by FSU. Academic curriculum should not be dictated by the highest bidder.

Correct. Curriculum should be determined by the political persuasion of the faculty.

 

[sMiLeYz]

Correct. Curriculum should be determined by the political persuasion of the faculty.

Incorrect. Regardless if the professor is conservative, liberal, their political philosophy is irrelevant in regards their qualifications as a professor. The only thing that should matter their academic background, experience, and ability to teach. Having a donor outside the faculty select employees is a violation of academic integrity of the highest order.

Now for the conservative stereotype that academia is populated majority by liberals, well it is a professional that attracts the well-educated, free-thinking types, intellectual types which describes political liberals.

 

[Fear No Evil]

I honestly can't come up with words to respond to this...

This is seriously what our country has come to...

I love how we're 14 trillion in debt, have our troops scattered all over the world, 10%+ unemployment, and THIS is what is wrong with our country. LOL. Silly lefties.

This is a UNIVERSITY. This isn't a high school or a grade school. ADULTS choose to attend this university and they can choose to attend another with political views which may mirror their own. Or they can attend this school with the knowledge that the econ dept may be slanted to the right.

This is nothing but a big bunch of crybaby liberals whining that their holy grail of liberal establishments, the schools, may actually have an opposing viewpoint.

I'd be a bit more concerned about our politicians being bought and paid for than a university doing this.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Incorrect. Regardless if the professor is conservative, liberal, their political philosophy is irrelevant in regards their qualifications as a professor. The only thing that should matter their academic background, experience, and ability to teach. Having a donor outside the faculty select employees is a violation of academic integrity of the highest order.

Now for the conservative stereotype that academia is populated majority by liberals, well it is a professional that attracts the well-educated, free-thinking types, intellectual types which describes political liberals.

Most liberals are a bunch of racist, knuckle dragging, bigoted retards who can't survive without unions and tenure to protect them. (See how fun it is to just make stuff up and throw labels around!) After all, those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

But seriously, why is it that all these smart free-thinking liberals all choose to teach while the smart free thinking conservatives go into business and create wealth and jobs?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Correct. Curriculum should be determined by the political persuasion of the faculty.

Incorrect. Regardless if the professor is conservative, liberal, their political philosophy is irrelevant in regards their qualifications as a professor. The only thing that should matter their academic background, experience, and ability to teach. Having a donor outside the faculty select employees is a violation of academic integrity of the highest order.

Now for the conservative stereotype that academia is populated majority by liberals, well it is a professional that attracts the well-educated, free-thinking types, intellectual types which describes political liberals.

Darn sarcastic tags - always being drawn in the background color.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Is there a saying at at the college level those that can do; those that can't teach.

For Engineering schools; I know that that is not the case; but for all these big public universities.... :hmm:

 

[Thump553]

I'm willing to bet this happens far more from big lefty contributors than right-wingers. Outrage not found before, not found now.

I'm not so sure of that. I know both of my alma matters (one a state school, the other Jesuit) have an ironclad rule against allowing donors to dictate hiring and curriculum decisions.

The independence of American colleges is a strong root of their strength today. IMO, and regardless of the political bent of the donor, this is atrocious and FSU should change it's name so as remove any implication that they are a state school. Truth in advertising requires that they prominently disclose who has bought the right to control the school. It happened here when the Moonies bought out Post University.

 

[senseamp]

The point is now FSU (and other Koch money recipients') economics research is going to have zero credibility. So next time someone says FSU "economics paper shows deregulation rocks" people are going to say, "yeah, that's what it's paid to say "

 

[sunzt]

FSU isn't really known for it's quality econ department or staff..... Koch involvement won't change that either. I highly doubt any of their "approved" profs will make life long impact on student's philosophy of economics. Kochs just wastin a some cash to make themselves feel like they can control what people think about economics.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Allowing ultra partisan donors to screen faculty for programs at a university, yes, the horrors. Even someone like you should be able to figure out why this is a bad idea.

Let's be clear here...there are 2 new programs being donated to FSU for the "Study of Political Economy and Free Enterprise" and "Excellence in Economic Education". The new faculty hired to support the 2 new programs are proposed by FSU faculty, interviewed by FSU faculty and selected by FSU faculty. The donation contract gives Koch veto power over selections which he may find inappropriate to the advancement of these studies. I have seen nothing which indicates that this veto power has ever been exercised during the past 3 years this contract has been in effect. I'm really having trouble getting my panties in a bunch over this one....but hey, I'm not an "ultra partisan" on this issue...even someone like you should be able to figure that out.

EDIT: To reflect your edit. Have you ever been to an economics department at a major university? You honestly think that all the professors are Keynesians? (if so, you really need to get out more)

No...I don't think that. Stupid assumption...perhaps you're the one who needs to get out more.

 

[Infohawk]

Bad move by FSU. If Koch wants a think tank he should start a think tank.

 

[YoungGun21]

Most liberals are a bunch of racist, knuckle dragging, bigoted retards who can't survive without unions and tenure to protect them. (See how fun it is to just make stuff up and throw labels around!) After all, those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

But seriously, why is it that all these smart free-thinking liberals all choose to teach while the smart free thinking conservatives go into business and create wealth and jobs?

Does. Not. Compute.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Here's the 2 courses Koch donated. The course desciptions are obviously facades designed to mask their true intentions to 'control' what people think about economics...another evil conservative plot exposed! Lions, tigers and bears! Oh my!

http://www.coss.fsu.edu/stavros/programs/study-of-political-economy-and-free-enterprise
Study of Political Economy and Free Enterprise (SPEFE)

This program focuses on research designed to enhance the understanding of the institutions and policies supportive of free enterprise. Faculty members in this program will be expected to contribute to the professional research on political economy and the importance of the institutional infrastructure for the efficient operation of economies. Areas of focus include law and economics, public choice, economic development, industrial organization and regulation, and the new institutional economics.

http://www.coss.fsu.edu/stavros/programs/excellence-in-economic-education
Excellence in Economic Education (EEE)
This program is designed to promote excellence in the teaching of economics at all educational levels. Program faculty must excel in the teaching of economics and the training of others to become outstanding economics teachers. This objective is pursued through workshops, development of creative materials, and other programs designed to promote both interest in and understanding of the "economic way of thinking." Economics is exciting and the EEE program seeks to bring this excitement alive for both students and teachers.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Does. Not. Compute.

So big business is run by a bunch of liberal progressives? You guys need to get your talking points in order.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

BTW..the thread title is pure bullshit.

Double standard? <--- no need to answer...it's a rhetorical question

 

[fskimospy]

Here's the 2 courses Koch donated. The course desciptions are obviously facades designed to mask their true intentions to 'control' what people think about economics...another evil conservative plot exposed! Lions, tigers and bears! Oh my!

You know you can just say 'yeah man, that's pretty fucked up' as opposed to all this shrieking and dancing around.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

You know you can just say 'yeah man, that's pretty fucked up' as opposed to all this shrieking and dancing around.

Diverse economic ideologies being taught in our universities...yeah man, that's pretty fucked up.

 

[fskimospy]

Diverse economic ideologies being taught in our universities...yeah man, that's pretty fucked up.

As already mentioned: Ultra partisan donors participating in faculty selection for an independent university. Yeah man, that's pretty fucked up. I can only imagine your hysteria if it turned out that a public university had to run its employment picks for economics past an external liberal source.

We all know the result of this will be more conservative faculty being hired by FSU. It's basically conservative professor affirmative action. Glad to see you've decided to support that after all.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
Also, since the agreement was made in 2008 it has nothing to do with FSU's budget, this just allowed them to offer 8 additional classes not the reverse.

I'm reading reports that the FL legislature cut $20 million per year in funding to FSU begining in '06 or '07, so I think it does have something to do with budget problems.

Fern

 

[Fern]

Appears the news story in the OP may not be accurate.

FSU's president has been responding:

Here&#8217;s an excerpt from his (FSU president's) letter:

&#8220;These are the facts: The Koch Foundation does not review and approve faculty applicants. The economics department received approximately 500 applications for two positions. Fifty of these applicants were considered worthy of further consideration by the faculty. These 50 were sent to an advisory board for their input. The advisory board, formed in 2008, consisted of two FSU faculty members, both Eminent Scholars in Economics, and a Ph.D. economist appointed by the Koch Foundation. This board recommended 16 of the 50 candidates proposed by the faculty search committee for further consideration. Ultimately, the 2 people hired did not come from this list, but instead were recommended by the faculty from a separate pool of applicants.&#8221;

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/ne...s-foundation-didnt-interfere-with-hiring.html

Fern

 

[senseamp]

Appears the news story in the OP may not be accurate.

FSU's president has been responding:



http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/ne...s-foundation-didnt-interfere-with-hiring.html

Fern

Right, they can just withdraw funding for the position if they don't get their way. Other than that, they don't make hiring decisions.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

As already mentioned: Ultra partisan donors participating in faculty selection for an independent university. Yeah man, that's pretty fucked up. I can only imagine your hysteria if it turned out that a public university had to run its employment picks for economics past an external liberal source.

We all know the result of this will be more conservative faculty being hired by FSU. It's basically conservative professor affirmative action. Glad to see you've decided to support that after all.

And I can only imagine that frequent condescension somehow makes "even someone like you" feel better about themselves...yeah man, that's pretty fucked up.

Bottomline...I don't share your outrage...let's just leave it at that.

 

[ayabe]

I'm reading reports that the FL legislature cut $20 million per year in funding to FSU begining in '06 or '07, so I think it does have something to do with budget problems.

Fern

Negative. This funding allows them to offer 8 additional courses, it did not "save" any courses currently offered. They weren't going to cut anything without this money.

Edit - Not the mention that FSU, like my alma mater UF has been raising tuition at double digit rates basically every year to cover the shortfalls from the legislature. That's why there haven't been layoffs, afaik at either institution.