Changing rear brake pads on a Honda - bleed calipers?

[JonathanYoung]

I will be attempting my first brake pad replacement job soon, and there is something that I am still unsure of after doing my due diligence and research. Should I remove some brake fluid from the master cylinder before starting, or bleed the calipers when I turn the piston back in?

Every Honda service manual/PDF that I've seen says to just remove some brake fluid from the master cylinder so that when I turn the piston back in the fluid can just get pushed back.

During my research, I watched a video by EricTheCarGuy. Instead of removing brake fluid from the master cylinder, he clamps off the brake line with a vise grip (softened with fuel line), attaches a bleeder tube and soda bottle, and lets the brake fluid bleed into the bottle as he turns the piston. He says that this way the master cylinder won't get tainted with dirty brake fluid. (link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMcqrb64wa4)

I tend to agree with Eric based on the logic of not contaminating the master cylinder. But then, the official word from Honda says that this is not necessary. I'm thinking this is one of those cases where real-world experience trumps the textbook.

So, how do you guys do it?

Edit: Forgot to mention that this is a relatively new car with 18k miles, an '09 Acura TSX. My car has the prematurely wearing brake pads that were the basis for a class action lawsuit. 🙁

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Finally got it done this past weekend. I did end up extracting a tiny bit of brake fluid with a turkey baster, but it was a very small amount. I had more trouble with removing the caliper pins and pin boots, as they seemed like they were stuck together. Once I figured that out it was smooth sailing from there.

Thank you guys for your help.

 

[thedarkwolf]

I'd say it is time for a good brake fluid flush anyway so it doesn't really matter which way you do it. Just bleed the brakes when your are done and flush all the old crap out.

 

[JonathanYoung]

Thanks, thedarkwolf, in my excitement to post the thread I forgot to mention that it's an '09 Acura TSX with 18k miles. Unfortunately, the rear brakes on that year's TSXs and Accords had premature wear issues.

 

[exdeath]

18k miles you should have never needed to add brake fluid so no need to take any out and no need to bleed. Just pop the cap off the master cylinder and push the pistons back in, you'll be fine. No need to bleed anything unless the system has been open at some point.

 

[JonathanYoung]

Finally got it done this past weekend. I did end up extracting a tiny bit of brake fluid with a turkey baster, but it was a very small amount. I had more trouble with removing the caliper pins and pin boots, as they seemed like they were stuck together. Once I figured that out it was smooth sailing from there.

Thank you guys for your help.

 

[zerocool84]

18k miles you should have never needed to add brake fluid so no need to take any out and no need to bleed. Just pop the cap off the master cylinder and push the pistons back in, you'll be fine. No need to bleed anything unless the system has been open at some point.

This

I put a rag around it so it doesn't spill all over the place.

 

[The Stigenator]

So how hard was it to replace the pads. My 2009 TSX will need new pads soon, I am at 57K. I replaced the first set at 13.6, second at 33 and I am sure the new pads will be needed soon. In any case my fronts are vibrating a bit on hard braking.

 

[NutBucket]

IIRC the rears wear fast because the stability control system uses them?

Just to rub it in, still on my first set of pads after 84,000 miles. When I checked them at 60k they appeared to be less than half-way worn. Thanks Subaru 😉

 

[zerocool84]

So how hard was it to replace the pads. My 2009 TSX will need new pads soon, I am at 57K. I replaced the first set at 13.6, second at 33 and I am sure the new pads will be needed soon. In any case my fronts are vibrating a bit on hard braking.

Damn, how hard do you brake?

 

[wirelessenabled]

IIRC the rears wear fast because the stability control system uses them?

Just to rub it in, still on my first set of pads after 84,000 miles. When I checked them at 60k they appeared to be less than half-way worn. Thanks Subaru 😉

My '00 Subaru is still on it's original pads at 160,000 miles. :thumbsup: Still have plenty of pad left. No I don't only drive 500 mile trips on the interstate. I live in the mountains and drive mostly 2 lane roads.

 

[JonathanYoung]

So how hard was it to replace the pads. My 2009 TSX will need new pads soon, I am at 57K. I replaced the first set at 13.6, second at 33 and I am sure the new pads will be needed soon. In any case my fronts are vibrating a bit on hard braking.

It wasn't too hard, but not knowing your background I have to say it's all relative. Prior to getting my TSX, I'd never done anything with any cars. I had plenty of experience building PCs, and I believe that experience translates to working on cars. One thing that's very similar is that they always leave something out in the manual that you don't learn until you actually do the job.

On the TSX, it was pulling the caliper pins out from the pin boots. I was scared shitless because I didn't want to rip them (had no spares because I thought they would just slide out). I applied some silicone lube and slowly twisted them off, but of course that's not in the manual, which just says "remove caliper pins".

IIRC the rears wear fast because the stability control system uses them?

Just to rub it in, still on my first set of pads after 84,000 miles. When I checked them at 60k they appeared to be less than half-way worn. Thanks Subaru 😉

heh, shoulda gotten a Subaru. But seriously, this generation of TSX/Accord had an issue with the rear brake pads wearing prematurely. It had something to do with the brakes not disengaging properly? (See fix below) On most of the cases I've seen, it was always the inboard pad that was worn down more. My one was about half of what the outboard pad was.

There was a class action lawsuit and settlement, and I believe with the 2011s the issue has been resolved.

Damn, how hard do you brake?

It may not be how hard The Stigenator brakes. If he/she just changed the pads without applying the "fix" then new pads will continue to wear prematurely. The fix involves switching out the caliper pins (top goes to bottom, vice versa) and adding a v-spring which acts to pull the pads apart when the brake is not applied.

 

[NutBucket]

Ah, ok. So it's a purely a mechanical flaw.

 

[beach2nd]

heh, shoulda gotten a Subaru. But seriously, this generation of TSX/Accord had an issue with the rear brake pads wearing prematurely. It had something to do with the brakes not disengaging properly? (See fix below) On most of the cases I've seen, it was always the inboard pad that was worn down more. My one was about half of what the outboard pad was.

There was a class action lawsuit and settlement, and I believe with the 2011s the issue has been resolved.

Is this an issue with the first gen tsx as well? I just recently purchased an 08.

 

[TridenT]

Damn, how hard do you brake?

No fucking joke. Holy shit. I brake probably fifty times harder than most people and mine are barely worn through the last 15k+.

 

[Gibson486]

Is it just the stock pads the wear fast? if so, then it is probably them just using the cheapest rear pads they can find.

 

[5150MyU]

^^I didn't even research it but it appears the pistons are not retracting-clue me in.

 

[JonathanYoung]

Is this an issue with the first gen tsx as well? I just recently purchased an 08.

Congratulations on your '08 purchase, those are some nice cars. Fortunately, the brake issue does not affect the 1st gen TSXs. However, the first gens did have a power steering recall which involved a free repair from the dealer. If you haven't done that then it might be worth checking out. A good resource for Acura owners is acurazine.com.

Is it just the stock pads the wear fast? if so, then it is probably them just using the cheapest rear pads they can find.

The old stock pads wore out fast, and I believe the new stock pads have a different compound. However, the fix involved switching caliper pins around and adding a spring, so it's probably not just the pads.

^^I didn't even research it but it appears the pistons are not retracting-clue me in.

Not 100% sure, but I'm guessing it's the caliper assembly itself, because somehow switching the pins is the way to fix the problem.

 

[thomsbrain]

If you want reimbursement from the lawsuit, you'll probably need a mechanic's receipt for the job. Just putting that out there.

 

[JonathanYoung]

Thanks for the heads up, the settlement administrator actually did send me a form stating that my submission was invalid. I called them and told them I did the repair myself (this was on the letter I sent them initially). They instructed me to reprint the letter and send it to them, and that it should be fine for reimbursement. We shall see.

At the end of the day, though, it was $50 and I learned a lot doing this job, so if I don't get reimbursed I'll just consider the $50 spent on entertainment.

 

[The Stigenator]

Went in for a service today.... Umm.. how do I say this, I am going to be on the 3rd or is it the 4th brake job. Well 4th set of pads I guess if you count the first being the ones from the factory.

I know I had one at 15K, and another at 35K and now at 58.5K I am due for another one.

I cant remember if there was one at 26K I cant find it in my receipts but most likely it was just check and verify that pads are okay. I do know that the first time they used 43022-ta0-a00 and then 43022-ta0-a70 and the correct one is 43022-ta0-a40.

So I got to pay another 200 and get back 100.. ugh!