Changed CPU on Shuttle - AK31A, No Post, could not clear CMOS

[Herkulese]

I just received my new XP-1600+ CPU and it is an AOGIA stepping. I want to run it on my Shuttle AK31A (rev. 3.1) motherboard.

I took out my Duron 700 (unlocked and running at 6 x 150 =900mhz @ 1.85 volts) and replaced it with the new 1600 (Still locked). The system would not post at all, so I did the following:

1) Tried to cold start while holding down the INSERT key (Still no boot Post at all)
2) Shut down, switched off my surge protector, removed the battery and switched the CMOS jumper for about 7 minutes (Then got long Beep, long Space, long Beep, long Space, for up to four beeps with still no Post)
4) Shut down, switched off my surge protector, removed the battery and switched the CMOS jumper for about 2 hours (Still got long Beep, long Space, long Beep, long Space, for up to 4 beeps with still no Post)
5) Shut down, switched off my surge protector, removed the battery and switched the CMOS jumper over night
6) Switched back to my old Duron (Still got long Beep, long Space, long Beep, long Space, for up to 4 beeps with still no Post)
7) Restarted and got one long Beep only (Still got long Beep, long Space, long Beep, long Space, for up to 4 beeps with still no Post)
8) Restarted again and finally it posted and displayed the much desired CHECK SUM ERROR, DEVAULTS LOADED message.

Also, now when I kill the power with the ATX switch on the power supply, if I do not turn off the surge protector, when I switch the ATX switch back on the PC starts up again. If I turn off the surge protector and turn it back on, the system does not restart when I turn the ATX switch back on. Very Weird.

Thanks in advance for any comments on these happenings?

 

[MithShrike]

I think you have either a bad power supply or a bad motherboard. The continuous beep you got indicates a bad power supply and I can't really think of anything else other than the motherboard fried that would do something like that... maybe memory. I've gone through my chart for POST audio signals and there is nothing for a one long beep. Alright, salaam.

(P.S.: Did you use your ESD wrist strap or ground yourself to the case?)

 

[o1die]

I would try a bios flash with your old duron. Should fix your problem.

 

[Buz2b]

I would take a look at this site and see if your beep sequence matchs up with those listed. I would also suggest it is not the PS as that doesn't match at all with your description(s).
So, if I read your post correctly, it is now posting but you are just experiencing the weird power up problems. It could be that all that removing and reinserting of the battery has somehow screwed it (the battery or the contacts) a bit. Those batteries are cheap; I'd try another one and/or at least make sure the current one is seated properly and making good contact.

 

[Herkulese]

Thanks for all of the comments guys.

OK, here is what I did to get the system going. I finaly got BIOS to reset to auto recognize the CPU, so that it would boot up with the Duron in place. It would, however, not boot with the new CPU. It would still give the LONG BEEP long Space LONG BEEP long Space.... up to at least 10 times. Then, with the new CPU in place, I turned off the system, removed and firmly reseted the ATX Power Plugit, removed and reseated the AGP video card, and the system booted and has been booting up perfectly ever since, at least a dosen starts.
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Now, here is the situation at present. I have the new CPU in and running, but still have odd power on as follows:

Process 1) If I kill the power with the ATX PS switch, count to 20 slowly, then turn it back on, the system starts.
It should not do this as I have the setting in BIOS on OFF after power interuption.

Process 2) If I kill the power with the ATX PS switch, switch of the surge protecter, switch the surge protector back on, then switch the ATX PS switch back on, the system stays off until I press the start switch on the front of the PC.

Note: This is an AOGIA chip, so it should hit XP-2000+ speeds with no problem. I can get it stable at XP-1700+ speed (140x10.5), but I can not get it stable at XP-1800 speed (145x10.5), even after adding a full .100v of power.
_______________________

Ram) 1 - 256mb stick of Crucial Unbuffored, Non ECC PC2100 DDR ram. I had the memory settings pulled all of the way back and set the voltage at 2.60 and then at 2.7 volts but still could not get it to post or go into Windows regularly. Wher it did get into Windows it would sometimes default to the Blue Memory Dump screen.

Power Supply) Enlight 340 watt with the pots tweaked up to get the 3.3v, 5.0v and 12.0v rails just above those numbers (I had the 3.3 volt at 3.35, but now it is only at 3.28.)

______________________

Could these problems be Power Supply related or is this a MoBo problem

 

[Buz2b]

I think if you look at #'s 1 and 2 logically, you are fine. Try this; leave the system running and just unplug your surge protector (yes, this is not something I would normally recommend but you are "playing around" anyway, so what the heck). Now plug it back in. Most likely the system will not restart which is correct. As to why it does restart when you leave the surge protector on is anyones guess but not critical to normal operation right now. You might check your front panel connections on the MB to see if one is loosened or not making full contact.

This is an AOGIA chip, so it should hit XP-2000+ speeds with no problem

Sorry, but that is just not true in all cases (pardon the pun). That stepping has the "rep" for being able to hit high speeds via overclock but nothing, especially in overclocking, is guaranteed. Not all chips, including those of the same stepping, will perform and/or overclock exactly the same. You could try better/faster RAM as a last resort but that would be an expensive test. There is a good possibility that the board itself is your limitation also. The AK31 is a nice board (I've built a couple of systems with them) but it is not an extreme overclocker. Something in the Epox line might take your cpu further.
If you've verified the basics (which it seems you have), like cooling, voltages, etc and the chip will not go higher, then you may have "hit the wall" with it or the board. Sorry.

One other suggestion for future referrence, when you are resetting the CMOS, you might try disconnecting the ATX power plug to the MB first. Some boards, like the K7S5A work better when you do this before clearing. Sounds like yours did (somewhat) also.

 

[Herkulese]

Buzz,

Thanks for the clarifications and comments.

I am happy to get XP-1700+ speed, but I was hopping for more.

 

[Buz2b]

The last build I did with one of those boards, I got the same cpu up to to around 1800+ (10.5 x 148, I think) levels but it was not as stable as I would have liked it. However, I didn't have all the "parts" in place that I would have liked to push it further; my nephew was on a budget. I was using some "FRY's special" DDR on it, a "so-so" video card, a "generic 400 watt PS and an older modem. The RAM I'm sure was holding things back a bit. However, I don't know if I would have gotten too much further than that. I think I left it at around 142-143 FSB. Are you able to get that to post reasonably? Without rereading all your posts here, did you try setting the memory timings back to "normal" levels (less aggressive) when you try to go higher with the FSB? I had more success doing that. Like I said, I got it up to 148 FSB but I started getting some errors that seemed to be memory related (Fry's RAM). You might be able to get there. I would set the voltages and memory timings back to "normal" levels; with the exception of the Vcore. Increase it one notch (+.025 I think). Then ease it up to around 143-144 and see what happens. Good luck but, as was mentioned, you might be at the limits with the cpu and/or board.

 

[Herkulese]

Buzz,

I was not able to get stable results above 140fsb. I did not unlock it yet however.

Prior to changing the CPU, I was running the old Duron 700 at 145x 6.5 (943mhz) @ 1.85v (I unlocked the voltage bridges) and memory @ 2.6v. The Ram is one 256mb Crucial Nubuffored and NonECC DDR.
_________________

UPDATE ON START UP ISSUES: I just booted up with a boot disk and then switched off the surge protector, waited 30 seconds, switched the surge protector back on, and the system started up.

I think that there is something wrong with either the MoBo, or the PS. It never used to start up after killing power, unless I pushed the start button on the front of the PC.

What would you guess, MotherBoard or Power Supply?

 

[Buz2b]

switched the surge protector back on, and the system started up.

Well, that is definitely one strange happening. Frankly, I've never seen that before. Sounds like a switch problem but I guess it could be related to the MB. Doubt it is the PS as that has to go through the MB and switch and if they were good, it wouldn't happen.
Ok, you've gone into the BIOS and set the status after power loss to off, correct? Hmm, I'm wondering if we could try a test. Not sure what, if anything it would tell us but it might be enlightening. After completely shutting down the system and turning off the surge protector, try disconnecting the power switch (front panel one) from the MB. Then turn on the surge protector and PS. Then start the system by "shorting" the two pins that the switch connected to with a flat blade screwdriver for a second or two. It should start the system. After that, try turning off the surge protector, then turning it back on again. Unless my thinking is totally off base, (and it may well be ), this could tell us if it is the MB or the switch. There is no way in heck the system should start back up though. If it does then you have a problem with the MB. If it doesn't, it could be the switch. Please remember to do this carefully so you do not short the wrong pins. As I said, I'm not sure if this little test is even valid but it would be interesting to say the least.
Other than that, maybe someone else might have an idea or two.

 

[Herkulese]

OK Buzz, I did do the test.

I disconnected the Power On connector from the motherboard panel, to take the main Start Switch out of the equasion.

I then powered on the surger protector, and shorted the two Power On pins to start the system.

After it booted up, I killed the surge protector, wated 30 seconds, then switched the surge protector back on, and the system started.

I am not sure what this means, other than the switch is not the problem.

Does this point to the motherboard or the power supply?

Any comments anyone? <B>

</B>

 

[Buz2b]

Does this point to the motherboard or the power supply?

Wow, that is a new one. I never expected it to start again. However, since it did, I am fairly confident that it is the MB that is the trouble. If it was the PS, the MB and/or switch would have prevented the system from starting. Since the switch was taken out of the equation, it must be the MB. That was the purpose in the experiment. Even with a bad PS, the MB/switch would prevent a power up.

 

[Herkulese]

All this really tells us is that the switch is not causing the probelem. I do not believe that it addresses anything further, as the switch is simply a monentary connect type switch.

The problem seems to be that the latching circuitry is evidently not leting go when the power is interrupted. Where is that circuit, in the PS, or on the MB?

OR

Is there some other explaination?

 

[Buz2b]

Originally posted by: Herkulese
All this really tells us is that the switch is not causing the probelem. I do not believe that it addresses anything further, as the switch is simply a monentary connect type switch.

The problem seems to be that the latching circuitry is evidently not leting go when the power is interrupted. Where is that circuit, in the PS, or on the MB?

OR

Is there some other explaination?

I hope you will pardon my "CRAP" on this thread for a moment. It would seem like, from your last (quoted) post that you know a heck of a lot more about the "electrical in's and out's" than I do. So why the hell have you been wasting my time on this? You could have mentioned earlier that you doubted the switch because this would,
"tell us is that the switch is not causing the probelem. I do not believe that it addresses anything further, as the switch is simply a monentary connect type switch." I mean, what the hell?!? If you know that, then why do you have to even ask, "Where is that circuit, in the PS, or on the MB?" Even I could answer that; it's in the MB! Was this some sort of "test question" to see what kind of responses you would get or were you just looking for confirmation of your own opinions? Maybe next time you will be more forthcoming in your queries. You might actually get more (and more knowledgable) responses. Sorry to take you to task here but in the future you might think about posting your questions so as to include not only your own test results but also your own knowledge base on the subject. You would save a lot of time (and effort by others) that way.

BTW, in my own humble opinion, I think you may have "screwed the pooch" when you switched out the components by not using good ESD protection; it's a very common mistake and in today's market, it happens a LOT. That is why the MB switching/latching is not functioning correctly. Of course, you may know better.

 

[Herkulese]

Buzz,

It seems that I have offended you, and if I have, I am very sorry.

I must confirm to you that I do not have an electrical background, and that it is indeed obvious that you know more about these issues than I do. I also appreciate your comments and the guidance that you have given. I came the conclusion about the switch from actually doing the test that you suggested. If I stated my opinion in such a way as to indicate otherwise or to indicate that I thought it was an unnecessary test, again, I deeply apologize. I was only going to the next step in the investigation and ruling out this item.

As far as my question about where the latch is, I only know that there is one, and that it is held and released in response to a circuit of some sort on the MoBo. I do not know if this latch itself is on the MoBo, or in the PS.

I come to these forums because of guys like you that have knowledge and experience and sincerely try to help guys like me, and I do not want to be responsible for you or anyone else feeling like they have been taken advantage of. Your assistance is invaluable to those of us how know a little and sometimes get into trouble and need a hand to get out. I have been bailed out by these forums numerous times, and could not have built and or upgraded many of the PC's that I have, without this help.

Again, I apologize for any offence that I might have caused, and ask your forgiveness for my insensitivity.

 

[Herkulese]

Now, I do have another question, or should I say, a rundown of the situation that may help to bring an answer to this restart issue.

Fact 1) Windows can shut down the system with no problem, and is remains off (I believe this to mean that the Hold Power On latch is released).
Fact 2) If I kill the power with the PS switch, let it set for 30 seconds or longer, then switch it back on, the system starts up again.
Fact 3) If I kill the power with the Surge Protector, let it set for 30 seconds or longer, then switch it back on, the system starts up again.
Fact 4) If I kill the power with the PS switch, then switch off the Surge Protector, then switch the Surge Protector back on, then switch the PS back on, the system starts up again.
Fact 4) The main start switch does not seem to be an issue.
Fact 5) I have the "State on power interruption" in BIOS set to OFF.

So, it seems that the Hold Power On latch can be released, as Windows can shut down the system, but that the latch does not release when the power is cut to the system. I would really like for this to be a PS issue rather that a Motherboard issue, but it is looking more and more like Motherboard may be the culprit. As soon as I can get it, I am going to try another known good PS, just to see if the start up issues still exist.

Any other comments

 

[Buz2b]

Without needlessly dragging out complaints any further, let me try to address your question(s).

The main start switch does not seem to be an issue.

While I'm sure that trying a different PS will indeed help clarify this situation, I hope you are referring to the case Power Switch. If so, I agree; it is not the issue. That is why I suggested that test. The issue seems to be narrowed down to either the PS or the MB. Are you saying that if you shut down Windows normally, then this "quirk" does not happen? Are you running XP? (if you posted that earlier, sorry, I'm being lazy here). If so, go into Control Panel and look at "Power Options". Make sure all is set properly there. Other than that, I'm not sure that the fact that Windows can shut it down and make it stay off is any big deal at this point. You see, even if the PS were faulty, it (the power) still has to go through the MB's own switch/voltage regulators before it will be allowed to power the system. That is why I think it is a MB issue (as long as you confirm all your bios and OS settings are correct). As a last resort, you could try to reflash the BIOS with either the same version or an updated one, if available. That's all I can suggest at the moment.

 

[Herkulese]

Thanks Buzz,

I am running Windows 2000 Pro, and yes, windows can shut down the system properly, and yes, I ment the Case switch.

I am inclined to agree with you that it looks more and more like the MB may be at fault. A test with another PS should tell for sure.

Thanks again
Herkulese

 

[Herkulese]

Buz,

I aggree with you, this looks like a PS issue for sure. I did another test. I borrowed another power supply, plugged it into the mobo, unplugged the IDE cables from the board and plugged only the floppy into the borrowed PS. I started up the system, killed the power at the surge protector, waited for about 30 seconds, switched the surge protector back on and the system started up.

I now believe this to be a motherboard issue, and while this specific problem is not that big of a deal, it does make me wonder what else on this board is weekened and waiting to die. I also wonder if my limited OC with this XP-1600+ (AOGIA) is due to a weekness in the motherboard. Disapointing too, as I really do not want to buy a new MoBo right now. This is the first mobo that has ever given me trouble like this. Oh well, first time for everything, I guess.

 

[emjem]

The pc turning off and on with the power source is a non-issue re the mobo functioning properly re other functions -- completely different circuit. However, there is a one chance in millions that the jolt of juice caused by bypassing the 'soft-on' atx feature damaged a mobo component. But I'm giving that very low probability because you are currently running the system successfully in an overclocked manner.

I don't understand all the jibber jabber in this thread re oclocking the XP. The system ran at 150fsb with the Duron, demonstrating that ALL components, including the ram and mobo are capable of running at 150fsb, with the 'old' power supply. So you insert one new component -- XP cpu -- and the system can no longer run at 150. You have a cpu that can't take the oclock! How's your cooling?

 

[Buz2b]

I don't understand all the jibber jabber in this thread re oclocking the XP.

Perhaps you would benefit from reading over the entire thread a bit better. This has been a migration of sorts with the overclocking taking the back stage for now. I don't see how you can call this a "non-issue" either. Clearly the MB power switching process is not working properly which could lead to big trouble during power surges/outages/brownouts, etc.

 

[emjem]

There is a good possibility that the board itself is your limitation also. The AK31 is a nice board (I've built a couple of systems with them) but it is not an extreme overclocker. Something in the Epox line might take your cpu further.

Well, I believe that you spewed this BS. Herkulese is looking for a mere 150fsb and the AK31, is perfectly capable of that and more (with the right cpu and cooling).

I think you may have "screwed the pooch" when you switched out the components by not using good ESD protection; it's a very common mistake and in today's market, it happens a LOT. That is why the MB switching/latching is not functioning correctly.

"That is why the MB switching/latching is not functioning correctly"? You don't know that!! You don't even know whether or not the function was screwed up with the current cpu install or months ago by some other event. Hll, I'm not even sure that that the bios is properly set up.

Clearly the MB power switching process is not working properly which could lead to big trouble during power surges/outages/brownouts, etc.

Wrong! Regrettably it was past my bedtime when I wrote my earlier comments about surge damage but my conclusion was correct. Here's some education from AOpen:

"The Soft Power On of the ATX specification means to provide a standby current for special circuit to wait for wakeup event when main power is off. For example, Infrared wakeup, modem wakeup, or voice wakeup. Currently, the most simple usage is to provide standby current for power switch circuit so that power switch can turn on/off the main power through soft power control pin. The ATX power specification does not mention anything about the power switch type. You can use toggle or momentary switch, note that ACPI specification requires momentary switch for power state control. All the AOpen ATX MBs support momentary switch and AX5T/AX6L support modem wakeup (Modem Ring-On)."

Look, I'm here trying to help a guy with a problem. I don't care to start or engage in pssing contests. If you're feelings get hurt so be it. But when you're wrong, your wrong. End of story from my side.

 

[Buz2b]

I don't care to start or engage in pssing contests.

Then why the crap about "Well, I believe that you spewed this BS"
Also:

But when you're wrong, your wrong.

While you are certainly welcome to express an opinion, in this case, I believe YOU are the one that is wrong. Did you even go back and reread the entire thread and look at the testing he's done?? I doubt it. YOu were too busy spewing your crap about my posts. You've been around long enough to know better than that. People can disagree (and do so regularly) without engaging in "pissing contests" like you seem to want to start.
You said, "End of story from my side." I hope you meant it because crap like that is not needed or welcome. Stick to the problems at hand, read the entire thread before spouting off how others may be wrong or right and crapping on their posts. Otherwise keep "trolling" silently.
At this point I think I will refrain from lowering to your level and picking apart the rest of your post. My opinions have been expressed already and I stand by them; as I always do.

 

[Buz2b]

Herkulese,
One last (and cheap) thing you can try is to reflash the BIOS. It is remotely possible that there is some corruption there or that some instructions are faulty. You might even try going back one version, just to make sure. It won't cost anything but a bit of time but it is a long shot.
Other than that, I'd still say MB is the problem. Unless you want (if you don't already) to get and use a UPS, you probably should either RMA or if not possible, just replace it. Using a UPS in tandem with a Surge protector is a much better level of protection and should keep you "safe" for the most part. However, if you don't already own one, it might be cheaper to get a new MB.

 

[Herkulese]

Hay Buz,
That is good advice, I think that I will get the BIOS that is one rev ilder and give it a try. Like you said, it will cost nothing.

I am of the opinion that it is a MoBo issue as well. It seems to be working OK for now, at a slight OC XP-1600 at XP-1700 speed. I just have to make sure that when I kill the power, that I am ready for it to come on when I flip the switch back on. Windows can shut it down, so that is working allright. I have been looking for a new board but I believe that I will wait just a bit, maybe for an NForce 2.

BTW, my surge protector is a Belkin 2300 jewel with phone line protection. I should have mentioned that but it did not cross my mind at the time.

Thanks a lot for all of the comments and advice,

Herkulese