Chamber of Commerce Complains of Labor Shortage..

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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,817
136
The sad reality is that plenty of people don't know this.

It's specifically because our media reports it inaccurately, and dipshits that work in the restaurant industry continue to peddle their false narrative - fully knowing that it's false - but continuing to peddle their bullshit to act as if they are so oppressed and can legally be paid $2.13/hr.

There's also plenty of income that isn't reported in the restaurant industry via pocketed tips.
It's also bullshit that basically between 2.15/hr and 7.25/hr tips basically go to the owners, not the servers. Minimum wage should apply to everyone and people can then decide how they want to give extra wages to a very specific employee class while ignoring all other service employees.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,817
136
It isn't up to you to determine what the worker should be paid. Your job is to tip them based on the quality of service. End. Fin.



Bringing up shit like the employer contributions is none of your business. It should play no part in your tip process. You would also be entirely ignoring:
1) Cost of living differences between those states
2) Insinuating that all restaurant workers are equal, and they all deserve a set amount as-determined by you - someone that should be tipping based on the service. Instead you're saying "Well, you already have $7/more from the state, so I'm taking that out of your tip". Nice job douches.
I agree. I think tipping is stupid as shit and basically follow it as the social norms and think people deserve a fair wage. That's why I tip less in places where servers get a full and good minimum wage.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,817
136
As far as the OP, I remember all this whining about extended UI in 2009/2010 too. Employees were hoping to destroy the wage base with high employment and are getting foiled in that attempt, boo hoo.

It is always a pain to hire massive amounts of employees at the same time everyone else is, regardless of the how many people are looking for work.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,222
10,877
136
What's funny. I'm retired and all of the sudden about 3 weeks ago and continuing, to get like 10 or so a day of wants ads to hire me for just about anything. Maybe my son will get a message if I start forwarding these to him.
 
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NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,038
2,652
136
I have no experience in regards to an audit based off that criteria. My waitstaff make 18-20/hr if they're not good and 25-30/hr if they are. Which means my waitstaff only claim enough tips to meet minimum wage and lie about their income. Realistically, most tipped establishments that I know of have waitstaff who make well over minimum wage. As my wife works for the unemployment agency in my state I can tell you that tipped employees in general report much less than they actually make so I'm not sure your opinion on people trying to skirt their tax responsibilities. But it became a problem for them when they tried to file for unemployment during Covid.

I understand what you are saying, but the 24hour Chain restaurants (Denny's, Shiri's, etc... I'm lookin at you) majority of Graveyard servers barely make minimum wage for the week in many cases because those are generally slow nights except on Friday/Saturday nights where they deal with all the drunks after the bars close. n

Also, I don't agree with "at the end of the pay period is all that matter" by the way, it's not per pay period, it's per 7 day week, just as over time is based off 40 hour week. A person should never be paid lower than minimum wage any hour they work, not based off a combination of hours worked. In my opinion, It's no difference than expecting people to work off the clock, which is illegal. The "per week" is just a legal loop hole in the law for restaurant owners to basically get close to free labor during slow periods at the expense of their employees, who's time is just as valuable as anyone else.

Well... it looks like you are right then.
Yeah, he is. The tipped federal minimum wage of $2.13 is only legal in states that allow tip credit.
 
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NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,038
2,652
136
The sad reality is that plenty of people don't know this.

It's specifically because our media reports it inaccurately, and dipshits that work in the restaurant industry continue to peddle their false narrative - fully knowing that it's false - but continuing to peddle their bullshit to act as if they are so oppressed and can legally be paid $2.13/hr.

There's also plenty of income that isn't reported in the restaurant industry via pocketed tips.
Once again, you are manipulating the truth. First of all, in the old days, people where able to "cheat" in not reporting tips.. Today, that isn't really true anymore for the most part because 80 to 90% of all tips are done thru credit\debit cards, not cash. They cannot hide those tips. And yes, restaurants legally can pay them $2.13 an hour. That is not a false narrative. The ONLY time that they have to pay more than that is if the server does not make it up the difference in tips (top credit) from that $2.13 an hour and the $7.25 minimum wage (guess how often that happens because of how the law allows them to calculate it... not very often). If they always make enough tips in a week time period, they they are only paid $2.13 an hour by the establishment. The difference between the $2.13 and the federal minimum wage of $7.25 or more is 100% payed by the customer.. not the establishment.. So I get what you are trying to say, but you are actually also manipulating the truth way more than the media or those workers.

Next time someone askes you how much you make... make sure you include all bonuses, perks, insurance, retirement, etc.. because if you don't you are manipulating the truth just as you are trying to imply the media does when they talk about server minimum wage.
 
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Nov 8, 2012
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Once again, you are manipulating the truth. First of all, in the old days, people where able to "cheat" in not reporting tips.. Today, that isn't really true anymore for the most part because 80 to 90% of all tips are done thru credit\debit cards, not cash. They cannot hide those tips. And yes, restaurants legally can pay them $2.13 an hour. That is not a false narrative. The ONLY time that they have to pay more than that is if the server does not make it up the difference in tips (top credit) from that $2.13 an hour and the $7.25 minimum wage (guess how often that happens because of how the law allows them to calculate it... not very often). If they always make enough tips in a week time period, they they are only paid $2.13 an hour by the establishment. The difference between the $2.13 and the federal minimum wage of $7.25 or more is 100% payed by the customer.. not the establishment.. So I get what you are trying to say, but you are actually also manipulating the truth way more than the media or those workers.

Next time someone askes you how much you make... make sure you include all bonuses, perks, insurance, retirement, etc.. because if you don't you are manipulating the truth just as you are trying to imply the media does when they talk about server minimum wage.

Yeah sorry, but you're simply one of the many incompetent morons on this forum. Carry on.

No, at no point can a restaurant "legally pay you $2.13 an hour". That doesn't exist. It will never exist. You're the only one "manipulating the truth" you halfwit fool. If you find that to be an accurate or truthful statement - then you're simply a complete idiot of epic proportions. I wish I could skirt around that - but it's the honest truth of your incompetence.
 

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,038
2,652
136
I agree. I think tipping is stupid as shit and basically follow it as the social norms and think people deserve a fair wage. That's why I tip less in places where servers get a full and good minimum wage.
So, if you hire someone to do a job for you, they do an exceptional job above what you expected, and you decide to give them more than the agreed price, do you base that on the work they did, or their hourly wage?
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
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So, if you hire someone to do a job for you, they do an exceptional job above what you expected, and you decide to give them more than the agreed price, do you base that on the work they did, or their hourly wage?

No one does "an exceptional job above what you expected" You perform an action based on what was requested.

If you ask for pipes to be replaced from a plumber, how do you perform that exceptionally?
If you ask someone to change your oil and replace your brake pads, how do you perform that exceptionally?

Similarly, how do you perform an exceptional job of taking a food order and delivering it? The biggest difference between a good waiter and a bad waiter is someone that refills your drinks and asks "Do you need anything else?" more often.


It seems you're simply confusing standard, normal, and expected work process and calling it "exceptional" because you've been manipulated and stupefied by the restaurant industry. If thats your definition of "exceptional work" then... again.... you're an idiot. But you have already proven that substantially.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,118
10,942
136
No one does "an exceptional job above what you expected" You perform an action based on what was requested.

If you ask for pipes to be replaced from a plumber, how do you perform that exceptionally?
If you ask someone to change your oil and replace your brake pads, how do you perform that exceptionally?

Similarly, how do you perform an exceptional job of taking a food order and delivering it? The biggest difference between a good waiter and a bad waiter is someone that refills your drinks and asks "Do you need anything else?" more often.


It seems you're simply confusing standard, normal, and expected work process and calling it "exceptional" because you've been manipulated and stupefied by the restaurant industry. If thats your definition of "exceptional work" then... again.... you're an idiot. But you have already proven that substantially.

hahahahahha

"get back to work wage slave"
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,817
136
So, if you hire someone to do a job for you, they do an exceptional job above what you expected, and you decide to give them more than the agreed price, do you base that on the work they did, or their hourly wage?
The vast majority of waiters just do their job so I tip based on them getting a decent wage. If I actually get one that does an exceptional job, above what I expect I tip more. I used to have a regular waitress at Buffalo Wild Wings at lunch that would put in our order as soon as she saw my wife and I enter the restaurant and would have drinks for us as soon as we set down. She got a much bigger tip, than what I left the other waitresses that made our lunches take twice as long.

When was the last time you actually tipped someone that did a good job, at a place without a tip line on the receipt? How about someone that just fulfilled their expected job duties?

Tipping is also heavily biased toward white women, with black men making significantly less and has basically nothing to do with quality of service.


Also when no one is watching, most people don't actually tip: https://ideas.repec.org/p/feb/natura/00680.html I tip every Uber or Taxi driver, because, again, I think they deserve to make a decent wage.

ETA: Yes, in general, if I am paying someone a premium to do work I expect more and am much likely to tip them, than if I think someone underbid a project or otherwise provided a higher value.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,079
21,202
136
No one does "an exceptional job above what you expected" You perform an action based on what was requested.

If you ask for pipes to be replaced from a plumber, how do you perform that exceptionally?
If you ask someone to change your oil and replace your brake pads, how do you perform that exceptionally?

Similarly, how do you perform an exceptional job of taking a food order and delivering it? The biggest difference between a good waiter and a bad waiter is someone that refills your drinks and asks "Do you need anything else?" more often.


It seems you're simply confusing standard, normal, and expected work process and calling it "exceptional" because you've been manipulated and stupefied by the restaurant industry. If thats your definition of "exceptional work" then... again.... you're an idiot. But you have already proven that substantially.
People don't provide various levels of service? In tons of industries? It practically happens in every profession - from plumbers to doctors. Are you this slow?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
Oh no, people have an increased Value for their Labour! What are the Wealthy to do??
What cracks me up about this is that same trolls who constantly try to blame liberals and Democrats for decades of wage stagnation are the first ones to complain when wages actually do go up. The very same. It's unbelievable to me that they don't know that they're lying.
 
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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
People don't provide various levels of service? In tons of industries? It practically happens in every profession - from plumbers to doctors. Are you this slow?
KPI, it seems, does not exist amongst those that that troll considers to be his inferiors.

But seriously, I found his post to be somewhat enlightening. He inadverdently told us that 1) he's not an above-average performer in his own job, and 2) he's not management either.
Because seriously, there are obviously varying levels of performance at any job. Even amongst the poor guys who shovel shit for a living, there are those who shovel shit exceptionally. And quite frankly, I admire those guys more than I do anyone who does mediocre half-assed work in any job.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
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What cracks me up about this is that same trolls who constantly try to blame liberals and Democrats for decades of wage stagnation are the first ones to complain when wages actually do go up. The very same. It's unbelievable to me that they don't know that they're lying.
They don't though. Because wages for unskilled labor are a dime a dozen. Yet for some reason you incompetent fools keep saying we need to import more lol.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,806
126
They don't though. Because wages for unskilled labor are a dime a dozen. Yet for some reason you incompetent fools keep saying we need to import more lol.

You need to "Import more" for at least 2 reasons:

1 Low Birth Rate
2 The demographic bubble of Boomers

Wages for "unskilled"(doesn't exist) Labour is determined by many factors. One of those factors is what Society says it is.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,199
18,669
146
People don't provide various levels of service? In tons of industries? It practically happens in every profession - from plumbers to doctors. Are you this slow?

It's like he has never worked a day in his life because his head is stuck in his ass.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,199
18,669
146
I'd like to offer a correction on something I said earlier about wages for wait staff in MA

MA has raised their tipped staff wages in the recent years, and its been a long time since I looked. It will be up to 6.75 / he by January 2023. So I said it was $2/he, which it was for a long time, but is changing.

I'm happy MA is upping this.


DOL site is a bit more comprehensive in comparing data. Some states still have a minimum cash wage that is very low

 
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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,118
10,942
136
I'd like to offer a correction on something I said earlier about wages for wait staff in MA

MA has raised their tipped staff wages in the recent years, and its been a long time since I looked. It will be up to 6.75 / he by January 2023. So I said it was $2/he, which it was for a long time, but is changing.


I'm happy MA is upping this.


DOL site is a bit more comprehensive in comparing data. Some states still have a minimum cash wage that is very low


surely restaurants are going out of business left and right because no one can afford to pay their workers these wages! /s
 

Matt390

Member
Jun 7, 2019
144
62
101
It's also bullshit that basically between 2.15/hr and 7.25/hr tips basically go to the owners, not the servers. Minimum wage should apply to everyone and people can then decide how they want to give extra wages to a very specific employee class while ignoring all other service employees.

That's not true at all. You are considering the wrong counterfactual. A tipped worker would quickly find themselves out of a job, not be paid out by the owner if their tips didnt make minimum wage.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Aren't Republicans always telling us how minimum wage jobs are not intended to support a person but are just for kids to get experience? Well, Republicans, kids got experience and moved on. Now fvck off.
 
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blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Yeah sorry, but you're simply one of the many incompetent morons on this forum. Carry on.

No, at no point can a restaurant "legally pay you $2.13 an hour". That doesn't exist. It will never exist. You're the only one "manipulating the truth" you halfwit fool. If you find that to be an accurate or truthful statement - then you're simply a complete idiot of epic proportions. I wish I could skirt around that - but it's the honest truth of your incompetence.

Make sure you read the entire tables:

Minimum Wages for Tipped Employees | U.S. Department of Labor (dol.gov)

In regards to the OP, any time I go out, a huge amount of businesses of all kinds are posting help wanted, many at $15/hour.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Related: Record job openings and higher pay still not enough to get Americans back to work (msn.com)

Conservatives say the extra benefits are shackling the recovery while liberals argue that companies simply need to pay more money to fill open jobs. Yet that’s what many businesses are already doing. Average hourly pay rose sharply in May for the second month in a row, with increases particularly strong in lower-wage jobs at hotels, restaurants and entertainment venues.
Economists put forth a variety of explanations as to why so many people still aren’t working:
  • Many baby boomers retired instead of waiting out the pandemic. Record stock market gains made it easier for them to cash out, too. A recent U.S. Census survey suggests 1.7 million people between 55 and 65 retired early.
  • Limited options for the care of children and elderly family members. A number of women in the workplace suggest these issues haven’t totally gone away even though summer is here and most of the economy has fully reopened.
  • Fear of the coronavirus. Some 2.5 million people said they were prevented from looking for a job in May because of the pandemic, the Labor Department said.
  • Generous unemployment benefits. Many businesses contend an extra $300 in federal aid to jobless workers each week discourages them from taking a job. Some earn more from unemployment benefits than they do from working.
 

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,038
2,652
136
The vast majority of waiters just do their job so I tip based on them getting a decent wage. If I actually get one that does an exceptional job, above what I expect I tip more. I used to have a regular waitress at Buffalo Wild Wings at lunch that would put in our order as soon as she saw my wife and I enter the restaurant and would have drinks for us as soon as we set down. She got a much bigger tip, than what I left the other waitresses that made our lunches take twice as long.

When was the last time you actually tipped someone that did a good job, at a place without a tip line on the receipt? How about someone that just fulfilled their expected job duties?

Tipping is also heavily biased toward white women, with black men making significantly less and has basically nothing to do with quality of service.


Also when no one is watching, most people don't actually tip: https://ideas.repec.org/p/feb/natura/00680.html I tip every Uber or Taxi driver, because, again, I think they deserve to make a decent wage.

ETA: Yes, in general, if I am paying someone a premium to do work I expect more and am much likely to tip them, than if I think someone underbid a project or otherwise provided a higher value.
Actually, I try to tip when it's not expected quite often. It is also refused quite often because their employers don't allow it, and if they accept it, they would lose their job. Why? Because these employers don't want to have to keep track of it, pay the taxes on it, etc. It's rather frustrating actually how often they are forced to refuse the tip.

That link you supplied is using 20 year old data (data is from 2001). And saying that it's bias towards white woman is really not accurate because it's saying that white women, that make up the majority of that profession (servers) makes the majority of the tips.. You will never be able to get a sufficient sample size without completely skewing the results because of that fact alone to get an accurate finding. You have to remember that Blacks only make up 12% of the nations population, with much, much less working as servers 20 years ago or even now. even today, the nation as a whole, 80% of servers are white women. The other 20% is made up of all other people of color and gender. ( I don't have the time, but I can tell you a story of just how that is influenced just in the hiring process because of the "mindset" of some owners and their fear of customer's reactions) Also, men, no matter their skin color have always made less tip wise in a restaurant over all because primarily, the check is paid by the men. If it was primarily paid by women, that result would be different, as women get short changed in comparison to men when it's the women who pay. It's also geographically bias, as the South vs the North you will get completely different results.
 
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