Chávez arming to fight attack by U.S.

Beowulf

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Jan 27, 2001
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Chávez arming to fight attack by U.S.

Venezuela is shifting its military doctrine to set the United States as its No. 1 enemy, and President Hugo Chávez has spoken of guerrilla warfare, as seen in Iraq and Afghanistan, if U.S. forces invade his country.

By PHIL GUNSON AND STEVEN DUDLEY

sdudley@herald.com


CARACAS - Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez has long been known for his harsh anti-Bush rhetoric. But now he's stepping up military plans and weapons purchases to match his combative tone, and he is worrying U.S. policymakers.

Within the past two weeks the leftist populist leader has called himself a ''socialist'' and ''Fidelista,'' and offered a muscular new course for his self-described ''revolution'' on behalf of Venezuela's poor.

''I propose that we move to the offensive, just like the imperialists have moved to the bloody and ruthless offensive. If you don't believe me, look at Iraq . . .'' Chávez told a news conference in Brazil late last month.

''We have to embrace socialism as a thesis,'' he continued, in what observers said was his most direct public reference to his socialist views. He later added that any attack on Cuba or Venezuela ``would be an attack on both.''

Chávez has called President Bush the devil and worse, and he regularly blames Washington for a 2002 coup attempt against him. Critics brand him a would-be dictator, but Chávez has won two democratic elections and fended off a recall referendum just last year.

Still, his latest comments worry U.S. policymakers, mostly because they coincide with his push to obtain new weaponry and forge a new national military doctrine that would prepare his country for a war of resistance against a possible U.S. invasion.

Simultaneously, Chávez has said he is placing the 50,000 soldiers of the military reserve directly under his control and organizing his civilian supporters into armed militias to be known as ``popular defense units.''

OIL A COMPLICATION

Although U.S. officials have dismissed the idea of a military attack on Venezuela, they have expressed concern over Chávez' new stance since Venezuela remains the fourth-largest supplier of oil to the United States.

Earlier this week, the State Department's assistant secretary for Western Hemisphere affairs, Roger Noriega, challenged Chávez's efforts to create the militias and his purchase of 40 Russian helicopters and 100,000 AK-47 assault rifles.

Noriega told a TV interviewer that the weapons could end up in ''the hands of some criminal and irregular groups'' -- an apparent reference to leftist guerrillas in neighboring Colombia with whom Chávez has been accused of sympathizing.

Vice President José Vicente Rangel responded swiftly to Noriega's comments, saying they had ''the deliberate goal of provoking Venezuela'' and that the new guns would replace old weaponry.

The heightened U.S.Venezuela tensions coincide with new strategies for bilateral relations in both countries.

After years of Washington's trying to avoid confrontations with Chávez, a new U.S. ''policy review'' is expected soon to recommend trying to isolate Venezuela from its neighbors.

''We've tried to establish common ground with the Venezuelan government,'' Noriega said in the television interview. ``But, unfortunately, President Chávez has sabotaged our efforts.''

For his part, Chávez has been trying to extricate Venezuela from the U.S. economic sphere of influence by forging ties with countries such as China and Argentina and hinting that he may sell Venezuela's U.S. gasoline and refining business, Citgo.

But it is Venezuela's attempt to procure arms and create militias that has made the U.S. government jumpy.

''Even if these are to replace the older weapons, where are these older models going to go?'' wondered one State Department official, speaking on condition of anonymity. ``They're old. It doesn't mean they're useless.''


Other deals include the purchase of the 40 helicopters and the possible purchase of 50 Russian-made MiG 29 fighter jets. Media reports from Washington say the United States has petitioned Russia to rethink the sales.

While some officials worry that the AK-47s could end up in Colombian rebels' hands, others believe the weapons acquisition is a reasonable part of Chávez's shift in military doctrine.

As described by Gen. Melvin López, head of the National Defense Council (Venezuela's equivalent to the National Security Council), the new doctrine would focus on an ''asymmetric war'' -- a conflict between a superior and an inferior fighting force, like those in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Under the new doctrine, the only way to fend off a superior enemy is by using guerrilla tactics -- hence Chávez's efforts to create militia groups and bulk up reserve units.

In recent statements, López said asymmetrical war would involve ``the participation of the whole population; adapting ourselves to the geopolitical [situation] of the country.''

Chávez recently said the new popular defense units would comprise 10 to 500 members each and would fall outside the normal military hierarchy and directly under the president's command, in effect creating Chávez's own, private revolutionary army. They are to be organized ``in the barrio, in the factory.''

If the ''imperialists'' intervene in Venezuela, Chávez added, ``they will face the people . . . ready to defend their sovereignty, their country and their dignity.''

OTHERS' TECHNIQUES

[/b]Venezuela's new strategy comes from the same roots as 'the prolonged popular war of Mao Zedong, Ho Chi Minh and Vo Nguyen Giap in Asia, and `the war of all the people' in Cuba,' '' said one of the Chávez government's ideologues, Mexico-based academic Heinz Dieterich.[/b]

Cuba has long projected the ''war of all the people'' not only as the strategy it would use to wear down and eventually defeat a possible U.S. invasion but as the kind of aggressive posture that might even deter a U.S. attack.

That is not far from the vision of Gen. Alberto Müeller, a studied military tactician as well as a former senator and Chávez campaign aide. Müeller is expected to be named to the special government commission that will put the country's new military doctrine in writing.

In an interview with The Herald, Müeller said the new doctrine of ''decentralized defense'' was to signal the United States not to attack.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/10881582.htm?1c

Look at Castro junior hrm how long until elections are no more in Venezuela.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
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I for one vote for a policy of non-intervention, since it's so in vogue. Let's see how quickly that leads to ruin.
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
The guy is kinda messed up stalinist, but he is right in terms of military strategy. The best way to deter US inveasion, short of nuclear weapons is armed forces or paramilitaries equipped and trained for urban and guerilla warfare.
 

Beowulf

Golden Member
Jan 27, 2001
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Chavez is no good I've said that since the early 90's before I left Cuba and Chavez was Castro's new puppet.I truly don't want anyone to ever suffer the way I suffered in Cuba its not humane the way I/we got treated the way my dad got tortured its not right.
 

Beowulf

Golden Member
Jan 27, 2001
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Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
It seems every country needs a nuke these days.

More like every new dictator needs an enemy to rally against.Luckily we always have our right to vote for another president.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: Beowulf
Chavez is no good I've said that since the early 90's before I left Cuba and Chavez was Castro's new puppet.I truly don't want anyone to ever suffer the way I suffered in Cuba its not humane the way I/we got treated the way my dad got tortured its not right.
Psh. The treatment that human beings in other sovereign countries receive is not our concern.
</irrational moral position>

Beowulf: Since you seem to know a lot more about the situation than I do, just out of curiousity would the Venezuelan people support the deposing of Chavez - and perhaps even government reform a la Iraq?
 

Beowulf

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Jan 27, 2001
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Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: Beowulf
Chavez is no good I've said that since the early 90's before I left Cuba and Chavez was Castro's new puppet.I truly don't want anyone to ever suffer the way I suffered in Cuba its not humane the way I/we got treated the way my dad got tortured its not right.
Psh. The treatment that human beings in other sovereign countries receive is not our concern.
</irrational moral position>

Beowulf: Since you seem to know a lot more about the situation than I do, just out of curiousity would the Venezuelan people support the deposing of Chavez - and perhaps even government reform a la Iraq?

Venezuelan ppl want reform thats the promise Chavez came under but he is repeating steps Castro took.The country has alot of poor ppl several who migrated to Miami,FL to flee the Pro-Chavez movement.Chavez's deal is that he promised oil would be for state funds and promised to give land to the ppl it belongs too a la Castro(except take sugar instead of oil).

In Miami we see alot of local shows from Venezuela that are blocked boardcast in the country but are shown on local spanish tv in Miami about ppl wanting better life not a Castro type government. In the last Venezuelan election even with all the fraud something like 40% or so voted for the opposition.Even seen Venezuelan militamen talking on local tv over here just asking for support in arms.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Beowulf
Chávez arming to fight attack by U.S.

Topic Title: Chávez arming to fight attack by U.S.
Topic Summary: Venezuela is shifting its military doctrine to set the United States as its No. 1 enemy

Smart guy, he knows we are coming for Venezuela's Oil as soon as enough resources are freed up over in the Middle East.
 

mwtgg

Lifer
Dec 6, 2001
10,491
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Beowulf
Chávez arming to fight attack by U.S.

Topic Title: Chávez arming to fight attack by U.S.
Topic Summary: Venezuela is shifting its military doctrine to set the United States as its No. 1 enemy

Smart guy, he knows we are coming for Venezuela's Oil as soon as enough resources are freed up over in the Middle East.

If the war in Iraq was all about oil, why would we need Venezuela's?
 

BarneyFife

Diamond Member
Aug 12, 2001
3,875
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Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: Beowulf
Chavez is no good I've said that since the early 90's before I left Cuba and Chavez was Castro's new puppet.I truly don't want anyone to ever suffer the way I suffered in Cuba its not humane the way I/we got treated the way my dad got tortured its not right.
Psh. The treatment that human beings in other sovereign countries receive is not our concern.
</irrational moral position>

Beowulf: Since you seem to know a lot more about the situation than I do, just out of curiousity would the Venezuelan people support the deposing of Chavez - and perhaps even government reform a la Iraq?

No. The poor people all love him and they voted him in there. The only people who want him out are the rich people because he's a thorn in their side.

 

Beowulf

Golden Member
Jan 27, 2001
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Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: Beowulf
Chavez is no good I've said that since the early 90's before I left Cuba and Chavez was Castro's new puppet.I truly don't want anyone to ever suffer the way I suffered in Cuba its not humane the way I/we got treated the way my dad got tortured its not right.
Psh. The treatment that human beings in other sovereign countries receive is not our concern.
</irrational moral position>

Beowulf: Since you seem to know a lot more about the situation than I do, just out of curiousity would the Venezuelan people support the deposing of Chavez - and perhaps even government reform a la Iraq?

No. The poor people all love him and they voted him in there. The only people who want him out are the rich people because he's a thorn in their side.

Yea and theres tons of poor ppl in Miami that fleed Venezuela for what?
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Originally posted by: mwtgg
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Beowulf
Chávez arming to fight attack by U.S.

Topic Title: Chávez arming to fight attack by U.S.
Topic Summary: Venezuela is shifting its military doctrine to set the United States as its No. 1 enemy

Smart guy, he knows we are coming for Venezuela's Oil as soon as enough resources are freed up over in the Middle East.

If the war in Iraq was all about oil, why would we need Venezuela's?

We want more?

 

mwtgg

Lifer
Dec 6, 2001
10,491
0
0
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: mwtgg
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Beowulf
Chávez arming to fight attack by U.S.

Topic Title: Chávez arming to fight attack by U.S.
Topic Summary: Venezuela is shifting its military doctrine to set the United States as its No. 1 enemy

Smart guy, he knows we are coming for Venezuela's Oil as soon as enough resources are freed up over in the Middle East.

If the war in Iraq was all about oil, why would we need Venezuela's?

We want more?

Why? Iraq has 112.5B barrels in their reserves, Venezuela has 77.8B barrels. If anything, attack Canada or Saudi Arabia.
 

GreatBarracuda

Golden Member
Mar 1, 2004
1,135
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Beowulf
Chávez arming to fight attack by U.S.

Topic Title: Chávez arming to fight attack by U.S.
Topic Summary: Venezuela is shifting its military doctrine to set the United States as its No. 1 enemy

Smart guy, he knows we are coming for Venezuela's Oil as soon as enough resources are freed up over in the Middle East.

Yes. Smart guy indeed.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
Face it, guys, the Bushistas don't do compromise, which is what's prompting this kind of response from the Venezuelans.

The attempted coup, backed by the US, and the ongoing efforts to undermine Venezuelan authority over their own affairs aren't going over very well.

The sad truth is that most of Latin America has suffered at the hands of American business/government relationships with their own ruling financial elite, whether we choose to recognize it or not. Venezuela is a prime example. Actually a fairly wealthy nation in terms of resources, the division of the rewards from development of those resources are terribly skewed towards the ruling elite and their American business partners, something the Chavez regime seeks to change.

Opposing these changes in the classic cold war mode merely strengthens their resolve. Unlike many other countries in the region, they have the wherewithall to resist yanqui domination. Somebody will buy their oil, bet on that. Somebody will provide whatever they want in exchange- teachers and medical training from Cuba, arms from Russia, whatever the Chinese can make a deal to provide... we'd be a lot better off to get what we can out of those sorts of exchanges ourselves, but no, we're apparently more interested in returning the former rulers to power...

We haven't seen the kinds of human rights issues in Venezuela that we've seen in Cuba, either, and probably won't so long as the opposition plays by the rules, refrains from attempting any more power grabs, and so long as uncle sam butts out...

Not likely with the Bush Admin, who apparently won't be happy until all traces of socialism are wiped out worldwide. Who's next, Sweden?
 

Beowulf

Golden Member
Jan 27, 2001
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Originally posted by: Jhhnn
We haven't seen the kinds of human rights issues in Venezuela that we've seen in Cuba, either, and probably won't so long as the opposition plays by the rules, refrains from attempting any more power grabs, and so long as uncle sam butts out...

Not likely with the Bush Admin, who apparently won't be happy until all traces of socialism are wiped out worldwide. Who's next, Sweden?

The human rights issues in Cuba isn't about the opposition playing unfairly.You just cannot be in the opposition and live to tell about it.You can't say anything about Fidel heres a little story when I was in Cuba:

I lived in Cienfuegos in 1989(year Ochoa got sent to the firing squad) and across the street from me some ladies husband died the guys name was Fidel she started screaming "Fidel esta muerto".The local segurida del estado(security of state) officer ran down the street with his bat got into the house and clubbed the woman 3 times.Nearly killed here,everyone was looking as he took her out he told everyone to go in that the ladies husband died but the lady was going to jail for false alarm.Whats the false alarm she screamed Fidel is dead that's enough to cause chaos in Cuba.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
I'm sure that you know a lot more about Cuba than I do, Beowolf. OTOH, Fidel's totalitarian bent came out very early, and this hasn't been the case with the Chavez faction in Venezuela. Even after the failed coup attempt, nobody was executed, which is definitely saying something. They didn't even declare martial law, iirc, just went back to work...

They didn't come to power via a revolution, either, but via democratic elections, and have so far honored that method. We should encourage them to continue, and to find common ground wherever possible, rather than to condemn them simply because they're "socialists"... as our european cousins prove, socialism and democracy aren't incompatible, at all.
 

Beowulf

Golden Member
Jan 27, 2001
1,446
0
71
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
I'm sure that you know a lot more about Cuba than I do, Beowolf. OTOH, Fidel's totalitarian bent came out very early, and this hasn't been the case with the Chavez faction in Venezuela. Even after the failed coup attempt, nobody was executed, which is definitely saying something. They didn't even declare martial law, iirc, just went back to work...

They didn't come to power via a revolution, either, but via democratic elections, and have so far honored that method. We should encourage them to continue, and to find common ground wherever possible, rather than to condemn them simply because they're "socialists"... as our european cousins prove, socialism and democracy aren't incompatible, at all.

I am not saying to get rid of socialism nor am I advocating attacking Chavez.I think it's quite funny he is taking Castro's same steps as in targetting US as the #1 enemy and doing the same guerilla/milita Castro does.Plus he called himself a fidelista if that doesn't resemble going down the crapper I don't know what does.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: mwtgg
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Beowulf
Chávez arming to fight attack by U.S.

Topic Title: Chávez arming to fight attack by U.S.
Topic Summary: Venezuela is shifting its military doctrine to set the United States as its No. 1 enemy

Smart guy, he knows we are coming for Venezuela's Oil as soon as enough resources are freed up over in the Middle East.

If the war in Iraq was all about oil, why would we need Venezuela's?

Look at the Oil Output chart. Iraq is way down on the list like around 11th.

Venezuela is up at the top next to Saudi Arabia, Iran and Algeria.


 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Face it, guys, the Bushistas don't do compromise, which is what's prompting this kind of response from the Venezuelans.

The attempted coup, backed by the US, and the ongoing efforts to undermine Venezuelan authority over their own affairs aren't going over very well.

The sad truth is that most of Latin America has suffered at the hands of American business/government relationships with their own ruling financial elite, whether we choose to recognize it or not. Venezuela is a prime example. Actually a fairly wealthy nation in terms of resources, the division of the rewards from development of those resources are terribly skewed towards the ruling elite and their American business partners, something the Chavez regime seeks to change.

Opposing these changes in the classic cold war mode merely strengthens their resolve. Unlike many other countries in the region, they have the wherewithall to resist yanqui domination. Somebody will buy their oil, bet on that. Somebody will provide whatever they want in exchange- teachers and medical training from Cuba, arms from Russia, whatever the Chinese can make a deal to provide... we'd be a lot better off to get what we can out of those sorts of exchanges ourselves, but no, we're apparently more interested in returning the former rulers to power...

We haven't seen the kinds of human rights issues in Venezuela that we've seen in Cuba, either, and probably won't so long as the opposition plays by the rules, refrains from attempting any more power grabs, and so long as uncle sam butts out...

Not likely with the Bush Admin, who apparently won't be happy until all traces of socialism are wiped out worldwide. Who's next, Sweden?

I don't think Sweden has any natural resources like Oil that we want except maybe "Blondes".

We could use more of those so OK let's add Sweden to the list of Countries to invade. :laugh:

 

digitalsm

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2003
5,253
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Beowulf
Chávez arming to fight attack by U.S.

Topic Title: Chávez arming to fight attack by U.S.
Topic Summary: Venezuela is shifting its military doctrine to set the United States as its No. 1 enemy

Smart guy, he knows we are coming for Venezuela's Oil as soon as enough resources are freed up over in the Middle East.

No, what he is doing is entrenching himself, into where he can be a dictator with total control over the country.

Mark my words, Chavez will become a militant dictator by the end of the decade.