Ceton InfiniTV + Win Server 2012 Essentials

el-Capitan

Senior member
Apr 24, 2012
572
2
81
Hi guys,

I am using the ceton InfiniTV on Whs 2011 with network tuners. It works flawlessly.

In lack of a current project or a budget, I was thinking of upgrading that whs box to 2012E.

I have googled but could not find an answer : will I be able to use my ceton on 2012 and share its network tuners? I have written ceton and they say

- no, we do not support 2012
- but it works great in whs2011
- no, we don't support whs2011

:rolleyes:

Does anyone have experience?
 

glugglug

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2002
5,340
1
81
No. Like many other things in win8/2012, compatibility is broken here. At least in this case it makes sense as they overhauled the network stack, and even as someone who's given up on win 8 I'd say the new network stack is a plus especially for servers.

I'm guessing you use WHS for the drive pooling, which is far worse in 2012? I'm using StableBit on Win 7 and loving it.

I'm assuming based on the infinitv that you use media center. I therefore cannot possibly stress enough that windows 8 is to be avoided, and 2012 is basically just win 8 server.
 

el-Capitan

Senior member
Apr 24, 2012
572
2
81
Understood that 8 is to be avoided on the serving side. Thank you.

On the receiving I use Win 8.1 WMC on two machines with 3/1 network tuners. No problem!
 

glugglug

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2002
5,340
1
81
I meant on the receiving side as well!

Although this thread has people claiming they got it to work? http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=3926

Not just because of the network tuner support (or lack thereof), but because of the next-to-zero add-in compatibility, XBOX extender flakiness, complete incompatibility with other extenders, guide indexing that doesn't run when MCE isn't open, number of days of guide data decreased, etc., and all of the above being even worse in 8.1.
 
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el-Capitan

Senior member
Apr 24, 2012
572
2
81
Thats a very old thread. As said, tuners work well in 8.1 and I'm watching the Daily Show. No tweaking necessary. Ceton has Windows 8 drivers that work just as easy as under Windows 7.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
I meant on the receiving side as well!

Although this thread has people claiming they got it to work? http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=3926

Not just because of the network tuner support (or lack thereof), but because of the next-to-zero add-in compatibility, XBOX extender flakiness, complete incompatibility with other extenders, guide indexing that doesn't run when MCE isn't open, number of days of guide data decreased, etc., and all of the above being even worse in 8.1.

I can't speak for Ceton owners, but I got the HDHomeRun Prime+ (network tuner) and the HTPC is a Windows 8 box with Windows Media Center on it.
I'll be upgrading to 8.1 once it's available.

CableCARD support outside of WMC tends to be flaky, and especially worthless once you get into protected content. I have cable channels that are flagged Copy Once, aka DRM, so I can watch and record them in WMC but most if not all other media center software cannot.
Copy-freely channels and media can be viewed by other clients just fine, but from what I've read it can be hit and miss, essentially depending on driver and plugin support - with Windows and WMC being the lead platform.

I've got a box that, while still a work in progress be because I'm attempting to customize as much as possible, is integrating WMC and XBMC into a Harmony Remote friendly environment, complete with 360 Wireless controllers that can work within XBMC with plans for a full selection of Emulators and launching right into Steam Big Picture Mode.

I'll have to get a launcher going for Xbox Music on Win8 (from either WMC or XBMC) so I can tackle most media without ever touching Windows itself (which, while the Harmony remote has minimal utility in the Win8 "Metro" UI apps, with up/down/left/right Left Click available, Harmony/"Windows MCE Remote" support in regular Windows is terrible/not happening).
I can apparently handle most video formats within XBMC, even permanently add library access to a friend's external hard drive he connects sometimes for this purpose). Launching Xbox Music will give me all the music content I'd personally want, though I haven't seen how useful the remote is for full interaction, as I've only done some basic left/right navigation).
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Another announcement you two should see from yesterday:

http://www.recordedtvhd.com/forum/#nabble-td5708396

Seriously, with WMC you are so much better off sticking with 7 it is ridiculous. And 8.1 is a world of hurt, even compared to 8.

How is this new?

New versions of Windows often have internal changes (which is why it's a new version, more often than not) that, gasp, usually breaks things and requires developers to address the change. It's not always something Microsoft has to "fix" - it's the developer.

This has been going on for ages, on all platforms. When the product they develop for is tied into an OS version, that happens.
If they develop for something like XMBC, that probably has less things to update for new versions of Windows because the base XBMC is the one doing that if necessary. And third-party software might not rely on as much internal Windows integration.

Here's to hoping significant changes to 8.1 also include better integration between WMC and Windows, like with previous editions of WMC.


And as someone who doesn't really utilize third-party plugins in WMC (I've heard channel-shipping and transcoding copy-protected content isn't possible, so why bother with a half-assed approach... might as well keep the experience consistent), I find the improvements to the base Windows to be much more important than plugin compatibility at the moment.

And 8.1 hasn't even released to customers yet - and developers haven't had a heck of a lot of time with release code. Things tends to have a period of not working perfectly if third-party code relies upon something that was changed.
 

glugglug

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2002
5,340
1
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How is this new?

New versions of Windows often have internal changes (which is why it's a new version, more often than not) that, gasp, usually breaks things and requires developers to address the change.

There is NOTHING added to media center from 7 to 8.1. Absolutely NOTHING. We aren't talking about one or two 3rd party plugins breaking. It's pretty much ALL of them.

In the transition from Vista to Windows 7, in which a good bit of MCE functionality WAS added, most of the Vista add-ins worked on Windows 7, since the plug-in API hasn't actually changed, or at least there hasn't been a single spec of documentation released, since Vista.

In the transition from Windows 7 to Windows 8, with nothing added for MCE, every single add-in broke. Most of them still don't work today. None are working with 8.1.

It's not always something Microsoft has to "fix" - it's the developer.
That includes plugins written by Microsoft themselves. The built-in Digital Cable Advisor, for example, which is required to activate CableCARD support, does not work in 8.1.

Also, by using 8/8.1 you lose the ability to use any extender other than the XBOX 360, and in 8.1, even that has trouble connecting.

You'll also be pleased to note that 8.1 breaks RDP from anything other than another 8.1 machine or Windows 7. I managed to blue-screen it by attempting RDP from a Mac.

BTW, Harmony remotes work beautifully with Media Center, at least in the 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, Vista, and Windows 7 versions. If yours doesn't, that is yet another "feature" of Windows 8. My guess is that it's the broken USB on recent Intel chipsets with Windows 8 and 8.1 that is interfering with your remote.

This has been going on for ages, on all platforms. When the product they develop for is tied into an OS version, that happens.
Like I said, there are no new features, no changed APIs from 7 to 8.1. In fact there are no changed APIs from Vista to 8.1. MS quite simply broke it. Plugins in Vista worked in 7 without changes, even though 7 (much unlike 8) had underlying improvements and features added.

Here's to hoping significant changes to 8.1 also include better integration between WMC and Windows, like with previous editions of WMC.
Seriously, name one example? What integration with Windows are you talking about?


And 8.1 hasn't even released to customers yet - and developers haven't had a heck of a lot of time with release code. Things tends to have a period of not working perfectly if third-party code relies upon something that was changed.

With 8.1, we've received semi-official notification yesterday that that "period" is forever. Here the author of DVRMSToolbox confirms pretty much the same thing. And here is one from the MyMovies authors. You are right in that the RecordedTV HD forum post was last month. The author sent an e-mail out to registered users confirming 8.1 is broken yesterday. Even the various apps to just show you the weather are broken in 8.1.

In order to force you to "upgrade" to the steaming turd that is 8.1, a lot of major windows updates will not be available for 8.0. For example, IE11 (not that anyone would really use IE) is only available for Windows 7, not 8. While active support for Win7 ends in Jan 2015, extended support where at least there are windows updates is until 2020. And there are 3rd party addons that work with 7 to import guide data from sources other than MS's contract with ZapToIt for the areas they don't cover; so once the guide data stops I'm sure these 3rd party addons will start handling US data as well. Since 8.1 is a service pack for 8, ALL support for Windows 8 without that service pack will end 2 years from now, in 2015. And you will be stuck with the train wreck that is 8.1.
 
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db67

Junior Member
Feb 7, 2014
3
0
66
WS 2012E R2 + Ceton network tuners? I just tried it. They work :)
Did you set up the Essensials role? If so did you join the client to the domain? I can run the network tuners setup on my Windows 7 (Home Premium) HTPC and add them, but when the media center restarts the tuners disappear from the network. Any ideas what could be causing this?
 

db67

Junior Member
Feb 7, 2014
3
0
66
Thanks for the reply.

That's the guide I used (I used the same guide to set up WS 2008R2 and WS 2012 on the same machine, but I wanted to upgrade to 2012 R2 for the Essentials role). I haven't been able to try any channels because WMC restarts automatically after selecting tuners and finishing the setup. After restarting I get "no tuners found". I may try a reinstall as I've just set this up.

Which drivers are you using?
 

el-Capitan

Senior member
Apr 24, 2012
572
2
81
I am using 13.6.3.1088 with firmware 1.2.1.1 on hardware 6212

Do you have a different machine that you can try this on? It appears that your WMC is a little off.

Sorry, no real suggestion here apart from trying a clean WMC.
 

db67

Junior Member
Feb 7, 2014
3
0
66
I did a clean install and have it running fine now using driver ver. 20111017_1_5_4304_06. The Windows 7 13.6.3.1088 driver won't install and I am assuming the Windows 8 version of 13.6.3.1088 does not include the network tuners.