Ceremony honoring police before HS game sends 'frightening message,' ACLU says

[tydas]

Curious what people think, since police in uniform represent the government and they appear to be condemning free speech it is a little troubling.

"It's OK to stand up for social justice, inequality and reform," Dollinger told the newspaper. "It's another thing to not stand up for the national anthem."

Those comments caught the attention of the ACLU of New Jersey, who condemned the ceremony in a letter written to Middletown High School South officials.

"As initially described, the event appeared to honor police officers, veterans, service members, and first responders," the ACLU wrote to the district. "According to press reports, however, the event is being used to intimidate and ostracize people who express their views about systemic racism and social just."

"Law enforcement officers are sworn to protect the constitution, and it is a disservice to the students and players that an event that should focus on them, their families, and their communities is being used to send a message that people who express concerns about disparities in the criminal justice system are unwelcome, disloyal or unpatriotic," the letter states.

http://www.nj.com/monmouth/index.ssf/2016/10/aclu_takes_issue_with_law_enforcement_ceremony_bef.html

 

[senseamp]

So the school brings in the police to tell students which exercises of First Amendment it's "OK" with?

 

[MomentsofSanity]

A group of people are using their First Amendment rights to draw attention to their grievances with their government. This is exactly as it was intended and the people who do so are vilified by the very people who call themselves patriotic and want the Constitution upheld. Makes sense.

 

[tydas]

I should also mention that this whole event was born out of the Colin Kaepernick controversy which is why they choose to do this at a football game.

 

[glenn1]

Curious what people think, since police in uniform represent the government and they appear to be condemning free speech it is a little troubling.

"It's OK to stand up for social justice, inequality and reform," Dollinger told the newspaper. "It's another thing to not stand up for the national anthem."

Those comments caught the attention of the ACLU of New Jersey, who condemned the ceremony in a letter written to Middletown High School South officials.

"As initially described, the event appeared to honor police officers, veterans, service members, and first responders," the ACLU wrote to the district. "According to press reports, however, the event is being used to intimidate and ostracize people who express their views about systemic racism and social just."

"Law enforcement officers are sworn to protect the constitution, and it is a disservice to the students and players that an event that should focus on them, their families, and their communities is being used to send a message that people who express concerns about disparities in the criminal justice system are unwelcome, disloyal or unpatriotic," the letter states.

http://www.nj.com/monmouth/index.ssf/2016/10/aclu_takes_issue_with_law_enforcement_ceremony_bef.html

Some fraction of those expressing concerns are indeed some or all of those 3 things, however I don't think this ceremony was "being used to send a message" about that. To earn respect for your message about unequal treatment and whatnot they need to be able to respect others as well. Saying thanks to cops or firemen or whatever for doing hard, dangerous, and sometimes shitty work isn't the same as honoring unequal treatment when it happens.

 

[tydas]

There was a tacit understanding that this whole event was being done because of 'Kaepernick' and I am not at all comfortable with police in uniform participating in such an event. Everyone is free to do what they want, Kaepernick can kneel, the nfl or team can fire him, people can choose not to watch football..but government entity sending a message like this is not good

 

[glenn1]

There was a tacit understanding that this whole event was being done because of 'Kaepernick' and I am not at all comfortable with police in uniform participating in such an event. Everyone is free to do what they want, Kaepernick can kneel, the nfl or team can fire him, people can choose not to watch football..but government entity sending a message like this is not good

Governments have been honoring police, firemen, and other first responders for a long time. They were doing it way before Kaep decided to kneel and will still be doing it long after he retires. And even if it was done to "send a message," so what? The BLM people can organize an even larger counter demonstration in response to this one if they like; having this pro-police event in no way restricts the BLM folks free speech rights in the slightest, and having BLM organized "equal justice" events in no way restricts the free speech rights of the pro-police side. Hell, folks could have taken a knee like Kaepernick during this pro-police event if they wished to.

 

[OutHouse]

"frightening message."

is this one of those stupid click bait websites?

 

[TheGardener]

Hope the OP isn't expecting to find sympathy from the cop haters here.

 

[mizzou]

The problem with Colin is that he will never stand. There is no power to vote or state endorsed racist law to stand against. No clear goal line will eber exist that says parity is reached.

In Colins defense though, i think he did appreciate law enforcement. I just wish he would be a bit less idealistic and stand against apecific incidents like holding offixers accountable in the death of eric garner.


People who are upset with kneelings see it as a slap in the face to cops who risk and sometimes lose their lives protecting complete stangers from violent crime. Violent crime unforunaly is often looked at as a "black" issue, which in my opinion is actually more about crime bred in poverty not race.


So when the ACLU says you cant honor cops, people get upset because cops should be honored. But we shouldnt place cops on a pedestal either, because they must also be held accountable.

I dont think kneeling is a powerful message either way. stand, kneel, whatever, its all a hollow stance anyway so who cares. We should be proud of our country and lets not take for granted the individual power we have.

 

[cyclohexane]

Serious question:

Why don't we have ceremonies for other public servants? EMT? Garbage men? Postal workers?

No reason the police are special and have ceremonies at high school games.

 

[mizzou]

police fire and emt often are honored publicly because of their life saving efforts. garbage men and postal workers are not called to protect the public or put themselves in the position to save people.

They are not special, they just sometimes do special things.

Serious question:

Why don't we have ceremonies for other public servants? EMT? Garbage men? Postal workers?

No reason the police are special and have ceremonies at high school games.

Serious question:

Why don't we have ceremonies for other public servants? EMT? Garbage men? Postal workers?

No reason the police are special and have ceremonies at high school games.

 

[glenn1]

Serious question:

Why don't we have ceremonies for other public servants? EMT? Garbage men? Postal workers?

No reason the police are special and have ceremonies at high school games.

We do. Teachers for example are frequently honored. Military. Utility workers get honored after restoring power lost in major storms. Et cetera. If you wanted to set up a ceremony to honor garbage men I'd be all for it.

 

[mizzou]

We do. Teachers for example are frequently honored. Military. Utility workers get honored after restoring power lost in major storms. Et cetera. If you wanted to set up a ceremony to honor garbage men I'd be all for it.

good samaritans are probably the most frequent at local sports games from what ive experienced.

 

[Commodus]

Governments have been honoring police, firemen, and other first responders for a long time. They were doing it way before Kaep decided to kneel and will still be doing it long after he retires. And even if it was done to "send a message," so what? The BLM people can organize an even larger counter demonstration in response to this one if they like; having this pro-police event in no way restricts the BLM folks free speech rights in the slightest, and having BLM organized "equal justice" events in no way restricts the free speech rights of the pro-police side. Hell, folks could have taken a knee like Kaepernick during this pro-police event if they wished to.

The problem is that Dollinger threw out the pretense of this being strictly about honoring law enforcement with his comments. His statement (and the event itself) effectively says: we police want to decide how you're allowed to exercise your right to protest.

And yes, BLM can certainly counter-protest, but that's not the point. It's that the police shouldn't be trying this sort of thing in the first place, whether it's a thinly veiled "ahem, don't question us" presentation or a more explicit threat like vowing to drop security at 49ers games. The police exist to serve us, not the other way around; they should see Kaepernick's protest as a sign that they need profound reform, not as a thorn in their side.

 

[mizzou]

Only the police need to reform is the fallacy. We all need to reform.

This isnt cancer. It should be pretty easy for everyone to not shoot each other over stupid stuff. Is it that hard? Ill never get it...

 

[Commodus]

Only the police need to reform is the fallacy. We all need to reform.

This isnt cancer. It should be pretty easy for everyone to not shoot each other over stupid stuff. Is it that hard? Ill never get it...

We do, but what the police are doing is particularly heinous. They're supposed to uphold law, order and the values of the country. Murdering unarmed black people, silencing dissent and dodging accountability are antithetical to those guiding principles. If the people you're supposed to trust with your life can't be trusted, how is society supposed to function properly?

 

[glenn1]

The problem is that Dollinger threw out the pretense of this being strictly about honoring law enforcement with his comments. His statement (and the event itself) effectively says: we police want to decide how you're allowed to exercise your right to protest.

And yes, BLM can certainly counter-protest, but that's not the point. It's that the police shouldn't be trying this sort of thing in the first place, whether it's a thinly veiled "ahem, don't question us" presentation or a more explicit threat like vowing to drop security at 49ers games. The police exist to serve us, not the other way around; they should see Kaepernick's protest as a sign that they need profound reform, not as a thorn in their side.

Again, I don't see police reform and honoring police with a ceremony like this as mutually exclusive propositions. And as for "we police want to decide" I'll just disagree with you, Kaepernick isn't being stopped from his protest and this ceremony will do nothing to change that. I think the person who linked this event with Kaep's actions is being silly and petty but he's engaging in a peaceful act of speech himself. Not every opinion people express using their speech is going to be Shakespeare, particularly nuanced, or even have much value (Dollinger's attemped linkage falls into that category IMHO). In fairness I think you should recognize that blowback to Kaep's actions are pretty mild and muted and hardly represent some substantial risk to him for continuing his 'protests.' Other folks have faced far worse consequences for similar speech.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/sc-teacher-may-lose-job-for-stomping-on-american-flag/

 

[bshole]

Governments have been honoring police, firemen, and other first responders for a long time. They were doing it way before Kaep decided to kneel and will still be doing it long after he retires. And even if it was done to "send a message," so what? The BLM people can organize an even larger counter demonstration in response to this one if they like; having this pro-police event in no way restricts the BLM folks free speech rights in the slightest, and having BLM organized "equal justice" events in no way restricts the free speech rights of the pro-police side. Hell, folks could have taken a knee like Kaepernick during this pro-police event if they wished to.

Sure they could have, if they didn't mind a beatdown and night in jail....

 

[Starbuck1975]

Serious question:

Why don't we have ceremonies for other public servants? EMT? Garbage men? Postal workers?

No reason the police are special and have ceremonies at high school games.

First responders carry inherently more risk in their professions and some communities choose to recognize their selfless service.

 

[glenn1]

Sure they could have, if they didn't mind a beatdown and night in jail....

So you honestly think that police officers would have reacted to that by coming up from the field while in the process of being honored to 'beatdown' and arrest folks. And all in front of hundreds of witnesses? You must think all police officers are actual psychopaths then, to the level that they would be found mentally incompetent to stand trial.

 

[Commodus]

Again, I don't see police reform and honoring police with a ceremony like this as mutually exclusive propositions. And as for "we police want to decide" I'll just disagree with you, Kaepernick isn't being stopped from his protest and this ceremony will do nothing to change that. I think the person who linked this event with Kaep's actions is being silly and petty but he's engaging in a peaceful act of speech himself. Not every opinion people express using their speech is going to be Shakespeare, particularly nuanced, or even have much value (Dollinger's attemped linkage falls into that category IMHO). In fairness I think you should recognize that blowback to Kaep's actions are pretty mild and muted and hardly represent some substantial risk to him for continuing his 'protests.' Other folks have faced far worse consequences for similar speech.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/sc-teacher-may-lose-job-for-stomping-on-american-flag/

I don't want to overstate my case here. It's just that Dollinger is indeed being petty when he shouldn't given his role, and that it probably wasn't in the best taste to have this event at a football game and make that remark. If you're interested in reform and regaining trust, you should be sensitive to where and how you hold these events.

 

[bshole]

So you honestly think that police officers would have reacted to that by coming up from the field while in the process of being honored to 'beatdown' and arrest folks. And all in front of hundreds of witnesses? You must think all police officers are actual psychopaths then, to the level that they would be found mentally incompetent to stand trial.

Not really, I just wanted to take a cheap shot. When the hell are they going to honor embedded software engineers before a crowd? America takes us for granted.

 

[glenn1]

Not really, I just wanted to take a cheap shot. When the hell are they going to honor embedded software engineers before a crowd? America takes us for granted.

No one holds a parade for guys who write code for the washing machine. Or has a pre-game ceremony before a football game some dude who makes my Zojurushi rice cooker do this:

Now make that software for a something like a battlebot or a pumpkin chunkin' device (especially centrifugal) and perhaps we would.