Ceramic Tile advice?

[dxkj]

Im buying up some supplies to start tiling the kitchen/half bath floors, any advice before i make my purchases? I already found some tile we are happy with, but will probably end up missing some stuff I need.

I would really like to put in the under tile heat stuff, but I cant find anything within the budget, seems like there should be a cheaper alternative out there, but no luck finding it yet.

 

[DeadByDawn]

seal your grout

 

[dxkj]

Originally posted by: DeadByDawn
seal your grout

Got it! Im also shooting for a gray grout, seen how quickly white grout turns nasty/looks dirty/needs cleaned

 

[Scarpozzi]

There are 2 systems I've seen.....low voltage radiant heat comprised of a wire grid that heats up and the other requires pipes run under the subfloor off your hotwater source with pumps. The first option is much cheaper if you're only doing a small area.

As for installation.....if you have to lay backer board on the floor for a base, look into Ditra. It's a plastic material you can cut with a utility knife. The only catch is that it adheres to the subfloor with a thin layer of thinset, so it takes 12 hours to cure before you lay thinset again for your tile. Ditra is a little more expensive, but it's an easy material to work with....

 

[iamwiz82]

Yeah, I would suggest a darker grout.

As for the radiant heat flooring, it's usually quite an electrical draw, even though it's only 10w/sq ft it really adds up. You'd have to run a new circuit for it.

 

[Scarpozzi]

Also, if you're tiling a small area, consider going with 18 inch tiles. Cost-wise, it's a little more expensive for 18 inch tiles, but the advantage is that it will make small spaces look larger.

Having fewer grout lines will create an optical illusion that the space is larger. I did this in my bathroom and I was pleased. My only gripe is that 18inch scratch cutters and nippers don't work very well. I suggest using a diamond-blade angle grinder and a good dust mask.

 

[dxkj]

This is for our kitchen, and half bath... the floor space is hardly big enough to use the 12x12 we picked out in the half bath (probably a 2'x6' section x 2'x4' section in an L shape.

We might be extending it into the small room attached to the kitchen but that is yet to be decided, not sure how I feel about tile in a computer room/ office / whatever else it could be used for.


At what point should I need to use a backerboard? My current floors(first floor over a basement) have what appears to be 2x6 boards on joists, and then old pine flooring on top of that... I havnt torn it all up yet, but Im trying to decide if I should tear up the yellow pine boards or not, and if I do if I will need plywood + backerboard, just backerboard, just plywood, or if I should leave the pine flooring and use a combination of hte above.

 

[iamwiz82]

If you are fine with the pine, I'd leave that and put the backerboard right over it. I like hardibacker.

 

[drnickriviera]

If you bought a porcelain tile, you need to use latex modified mortar.

In my house, I have 3/4" decking, then I installed 3/4 plywood, then I laid down 1/4" hardi backerboard.

 

[IronWing]

Only buy tile made in former Axis nations (Germany, Japan, Italy). Oddly, that is what we ended up doing. Mexico also, but there was that Zimmerman letter thing.

 

[Midlander]

Originally posted by: dxkj
This is for our kitchen, and half bath... the floor space is hardly big enough to use the 12x12 we picked out in the half bath (probably a 2'x6' section x 2'x4' section in an L shape.

We might be extending it into the small room attached to the kitchen but that is yet to be decided, not sure how I feel about tile in a computer room/ office / whatever else it could be used for.


At what point should I need to use a backerboard? My current floors(first floor over a basement) have what appears to be 2x6 boards on joists, and then old pine flooring on top of that... I havnt torn it all up yet, but Im trying to decide if I should tear up the yellow pine boards or not, and if I do if I will need plywood + backerboard, just backerboard, just plywood, or if I should leave the pine flooring and use a combination of hte above.

Backerboards provide a good surface for adhesion of the thinset, among other things. You can remove everything down to the subfloor if you want, but you don't have to. You can make this decision by looking at the adjoining areas and trying to match heights of floors. The main thing is to make sure the backerboard is over materials that are securely attached to the floor joists. Also, use mesh at the backerboard seams to make sure the joints don't crack and telegraph through the tile and grout.

Good luck. :beer:

 

[sohcrates]

I'm actually starting my master bath renovation this weekend. gonna tear out all the wall tiles and floor tiles, and put in new shower area, floor tiles, and vanity.

not quite sure how it will turn out, but i'm gonna give it a shot.

i have been to a bunch of "tile stores" around, and they no doubt have great selections, but they average 5-10$ per sq. foot easily. I know HD/Lowes can suck, but their ceramic tiles average $1-3 sq. foot. that's a pretty huge savings, especially if you have a decent sized surface to work with.

personally, i am doing the floors in 12 inch squares, walls in 6 inch squares, and i may end up going to the tile store just to find somekind of matching "accessory" tiles to liven up the walls a bit.

if it works, someday i may post some pics! good luck

 

[AnonymouseUser]

Buy 20% more tile than you estimate you need.

 

[dxkj]

I bought 308 sq feet and I think I need around 260-280

I didn't buy backerboard yet as i didnt have room, and the 1/2" was cheaper than the 1/4" but way heavier.

I bought premium thinset that says I can put it on cement or wood... would there be a problem placing the tiles in the kitchen on even wood instead of backerboard? I have some extra plywood I could lay down as well for a more uniform surface

Edit: Ive seen that the main issue for laying backerboard isnt to help with a good bond (though that is helped by it) but that it helps prevent cracking.... I guess I can see wood expanding contracting a bit more, but I figure if the plywood laid down is the 3rd level of wood in a floor, it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[NoShangriLa]

In-floor hydronic heating isn't recommended with renovation because of the relatively high associated cost, unless you have expose ceiling from below. The other method is electrical mat or wires for small area often less than 150 sqf, however the wires/mats can be joins together to accommodate greater area but it will require an electrician to hook it up.

Try to stay away from smooth/glossy surface tiles in area that tend to have water to prevent slipping because tiles aren?t as forgiven as carpet/wood. Use sanded grout for wide grout lines to prevent cracking, and an off colour grout doesn?t show the dirt as well as white colour grout. Lighter colour tiles & grouts tend to open up small spaces, while darker colour tiles & grouts tend to close/make the space seems smaller. It is best to mix dry powder grout by siftings because the colour will be much more consistent than wet mixing.

Wipe down grout as soon as possible after grouting the tiles, and the trick to save the day is to make the consistency of the grout slightly softer than peanut butter so it will go into the grooves easily. Compass & pencil can be use to draw the wall contours or trace the cut lines at the wall with another tile.

Backer board isn't needed if your floor isn't flexing, clean, flat, and is wood/cement. 1/2" backer board can be use if the space isn't require to match another space (you don't want too high of a transition different). 3/8" or 5/16? plywood can be use in place of backer board if cost is a concern.

Make sure to screw down the joints of the sub-floors at minimum 8? spacing and same as backer boards (try to over lap the sub-floor seams with backer boards).

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

In-floor hydroponics heating isn't recommended with renovation because of the relatively high associated cost, unless you have expose ceiling from below. The other method is electrical mat or wires for small area often less than 150 sqf, however the wires/mats can be joins together to accommodate greater area but it will require an electrician to hook it up.

Try to stay away from smooth/glossy surface tiles in area that tend to have water to prevent slipping because tiles aren?t as forgiven as carpet/wood. Use sanded grout for wide grout lines to prevent cracking, and an off colour grout doesn?t show the dirt as well as white colour grout. Lighter colour tiles & grouts tend to open up small spaces, while darker colour tiles & grouts tend to close/make the space seems smaller. It is best to mix dry powder grout by siftings because the colour will be much more consistent than wet mixing.

Wipe down grout as soon as possible after grouting the tiles, and the trick to save the day is to make the consistency of the grout slightly softer than peanut butter so it will go into the grooves easily. Compass & pencil can be use to draw the wall contours or trace the cut lines at the wall with another tile.

Backer board isn't needed if your floor isn't flexing, clean, flat, and is wood/cement. 1/2" backer board can be use if the space isn't require to match another space (you don't want too high of a transition different). 3/8" or 5/16? plywood can be use in place of backer board if cost is a concern.

Make sure to screw down the joints of the sub-floors at minimum 8? spacing and same as backer boards (try to over lap the sub-floor seams with backer boards).

Good advice, I have always installed hardi with roofing nails and not nailing on the joists. This is acceptable with any floor layer I have ever spoken to. Makes it a little easier.

 

[Greenman]

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

In-floor hydroponics heating isn't recommended with renovation because of the relatively high associated cost,

I think you mean hydronic heat.

 

[NoShangriLa]

Originally posted by: Greenman

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

In-floor hydroponics heating isn't recommended with renovation because of the relatively high associated cost,

I think you mean hydronic heat.

You are right. I was lazy & let Word doing the spell check

 

[wasamicron]

I'm considering replacing hardwood in my kitchen with a product called Duraceramic. I have ceramic tiles in utility room, and would not want it in kitchen. The ceramic tiles are cold to walk on so don't think it would be a good idea for my kitchen. Duraceramic tiles are suppose to be warmer. No backerboard needed.

 

[LookingGlass]

Originally posted by: Scarpozzi
Also, if you're tiling a small area, consider going with 18 inch tiles. Cost-wise, it's a little more expensive for 18 inch tiles, but the advantage is that it will make small spaces look larger.

Having fewer grout lines will create an optical illusion that the space is larger. I did this in my bathroom and I was pleased. My only gripe is that 18inch scratch cutters and nippers don't work very well. I suggest using a diamond-blade angle grinder and a good dust mask.

Not necessarily, depends on where you buy the 18" tiles from. Bought for my kitchen last year, at a Habit for Humanity Outlet store, cream colored 18" tiles, they were a dollar cheaper each per tile, compared to Home Depot. Shopped and compared. Had plenty of tiles to work with, and a few left over.

 

[dxkj]

The ceramic tiles we ended up going with were 12" and ended up being .52 cents per tile (sq ft) after them being on sale + 20% off coupon.

 

[drnickriviera]

Geez that's cheap. One last tip. I never use tile spacers on floors. Tile can be off by 1-2mm per box. I snap a chalk grid that's 2X2 tiles. That allows me to adjust the gaps and keep everything straight and square.

 

[Scarpozzi]

Originally posted by: LookingGlass

Originally posted by: Scarpozzi
Also, if you're tiling a small area, consider going with 18 inch tiles. Cost-wise, it's a little more expensive for 18 inch tiles, but the advantage is that it will make small spaces look larger.

Having fewer grout lines will create an optical illusion that the space is larger. I did this in my bathroom and I was pleased. My only gripe is that 18inch scratch cutters and nippers don't work very well. I suggest using a diamond-blade angle grinder and a good dust mask.

Not necessarily, depends on where you buy the 18" tiles from. Bought for my kitchen last year, at a Habit for Humanity Outlet store, cream colored 18" tiles, they were a dollar cheaper each per tile, compared to Home Depot. Shopped and compared. Had plenty of tiles to work with, and a few left over.

On average, it is more expensive. Plus, if you screw up when cutting a tile, you've just wasted a little more than if it were a 12" tile. I found they were more difficult to work with, but I like the look.

 

[Dead3ye]

Backerboard: It adds no strength to the floor at all. If your floor is going to flex, the backerboard will flex right along with it and you'll end up with cracked tiles. The larger the tile size, the easier they will crack.

The only way to keep the tiles from cracking is making the subflooring stronger. This is probably one of the most important things to make sure of before laying tile. You do need the backerboard for expansion and contraction and adhesion.


Go here and read, a lot.There are professional tile layers there and they have a bunch of useful information. I know I read a ton of messages on there before I laid my tile 2 years ago. I have like an 1 3/4" of plywood for subflooring. I have not had one problem at all with cracking tiles or anything. You could probably park a car on my floor and not crack any tiles. The kids jump on it and no cracked tiles. I might have went a little overboard, but hey, no cracked tiles.

My parents had a contractor redo their bathroom and the guy didn't shore up the subfloor at all but put backerboard down. 3/4" plywood, 1/4 laun (sp?) and backerboard, on 16" center 2x8 joists. After 3 years, Dad is replacing about nine 8" tiles that cracked. It is a royal pain to do, something you do want to have to do.

If your interested Before and after pics of my bathroom.
Larger picture to show tile better.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

you probably want a color body porcelain in the Kitchen so if you ever drop anything and the tile chips, you don't see the chip. there is a big difference in price and characteristics between ceramic and porcelain tile. Porcelain is much more durable.