cedar trail is a mutt

[beginner99]

Sorry, Zacate made Atom irrelevant. There is absolutely no reason to buy an Atom-based solution for anything aside from ephemeral clearances or other really enticingly low prices on Atom gear.

Don't agree. The full blown zacate (e-450) at least here were i live mainly appears in 13" and larger "netbooks". A few are 11" and all smaller one shave the much less powerful zacate versions.
The e-450 fights against llano and pentium laptops where it doesn't look very pretty except for battery life.
Atom fights against C-60 and these are much less interesting and all zacate still have trouble with certain hd content. So imho the actually winners are llano and maybe pentium laptops, at least the ones with a reasonable large battery.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

It is crazy how much faster the first gen i5 in my Thinkpad is versus Fusion, even springing for the 1.65 ghz part... I can't imagine using anything slower (atom.)

That's not my experience. My daily driver desktop is an i3-2100 with an 80GB G2 Intel SSD, and my laptop is an E-350 also with an 80GB G2 Intel SSD. For typical usage (i.e. web browsing, PDF reading, multitasking productivity) the E-350 system is not appreciably slower than the i3-2100. The desktop is an i3-2100 solely for the audio, video, and graphics processing as well as the light data analysis I do at home. If I didn't make mixes, rip DVDs, and work with research/scientific imaging, or do science, I wouldn't need/want anything more powerful than an E-350.

 

[Chiropteran]

It is crazy how much faster the first gen i5 in my Thinkpad is versus Fusion, even springing for the 1.65 ghz part... I can't imagine using anything slower (atom.)

Try using an ipad 2 or similar tablet for a few days. Then go back to the E-450 laptop, suddenly it will seem a lot faster

 

[CHADBOGA]

If the gauge is comparing motorcycles to chickens...then..perhaps.
Otherwise your post makes no sense.

Not too bright huh?

Simply both AMD and Intel released dud, uninspiring products in BD & this Atom.

 

[formulav8]

But...will someone remind me why Dirk was fired? (rhetorical question)

Probably one big reason is because he majorly messed up selling the ATI smart phone division to Qualcomm and for an awefully low $12 million only. The division was majorly bleeding money so I could see selling at the time.

Otherwise, he did everything quite well (I guess bd was a black eye though with the bod's being upset with him as well over that.). For sure the headlines now should be AMD, not Qualcomm going head to head with Intel in the smart phone market. The BOD's cringes at where they could be now I bet.

 

[Khato]

The fact that it took this long just for Intel to get their 32nm-based atom derivative to the market tells us all we need to know in terms of the internal priority this entire affair holds for Intel.

It doesn't merit enough internal priority to be resourced such that its market introduction date is aggressive, and it should come as no surprise that this lack of prioritization and resourcing also results in a completely bare-bones minimum effort put into the graphics side of it.

22nm and 14nm Atom may currently have higher priority though, so taking a pulse today doesn't really tell us much about tomorrow. But taking a pulse today certainly tells us what Intel thought of this market segment yesterday.

Well said. When you already know that you're going to lose, why put any more resources into a project than necessary to get it out the door? Especially when the primary focus is towards the smartphone and tablet designs.

 

[blckgrffn]

That's not my experience. My daily driver desktop is an i3-2100 with an 80GB G2 Intel SSD, and my laptop is an E-350 also with an 80GB G2 Intel SSD. For typical usage (i.e. web browsing, PDF reading, multitasking productivity) the E-350 system is not appreciably slower than the i3-2100. The desktop is an i3-2100 solely for the audio, video, and graphics processing as well as the light data analysis I do at home. If I didn't make mixes, rip DVDs, and work with research/scientific imaging, or do science, I wouldn't need/want anything more powerful than an E-350.

Maybe it was just the build process that spoiled me - but applying windows updates for a fresh W7 SP1 build took 3x-4x longer on the Fusion machine with the processors just pegged out. Since her PC normally comes back into my hands every once in a while for security scans and updates, which the i5 is so much faster at, that tends to be my experience.

I'd say subjectively that web browsing/app launching is snappier but given my limited handling of the Fusion laptop it would be inconclusive at best. My wife is happy with the speed and battery life, so that's a winner in my eyes

I am typing this on my secondary work PC, a P4 2.8 Prescott, which I would happily trade for Fusion based PC

 

[blckgrffn]

Try using an ipad 2 or similar tablet for a few days. Then go back to the E-450 laptop, suddenly it will seem a lot faster

I have an ipad (1) and Nook Color that I browse the web on from time to time... so... yeah

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Maybe it was just the build process that spoiled me - but applying windows updates for a fresh W7 SP1 build took 3x-4x longer on the Fusion machine with the processors just pegged out. Since her PC normally comes back into my hands every once in a while for security scans and updates, which the i5 is so much faster at, that tends to be my experience.

Oh, sure, I agree with your observations. But installations and thorough scans are not at all day-to-day tasks, and I honestly don't care how long they take because they're unattended and done overnight.

 

[cbn]

But...will someone remind me why Dirk was fired? (rhetorical question)

He didn't believe in x86 for Tablets/phones.

(Intel has a lot of work cut out for them in the Smartphone area, but then again they have more money to spend)

 

[cbn]

I have to wonder if Intel will continue to use Power VR SGX for Silvermont atom if they continue to have these driver problems.

Some correct me, but from what I understand Intel's driver issue wouldn't be an issue with Android.....but it will hurt it with Windows. (which could be a major issue if MS ever releases a Windows Phone OS that can also run legacy keyboard apps).

 

[blckgrffn]

Oh, sure, I agree with your observations. But installations and thorough scans are not at all day-to-day tasks, and I honestly don't care how long they take because they're unattended and done overnight.

My day to day tasks also include running Hyper-V with several running VM's (and they all update...), so our day-to-day tasks list may have less in common than some

 

[frostedflakes]

In multithreading test its within 5% of eachother (which i can agree give comparable performance), whereass single threaded is >40% performance better for Brazos (which is absolutely not just a bit faster). So your use of bit better and a bit worse seems to have a rather big range.
The difference between Atom and brazos are bigger than Fx8150 vs i7 2600. Close in high threaded applications far away in low threaded applications.

But at least on 32nm is will have a power advantage (which it didn't really had with the prevous generation either).

For some reason I thought they were closer in single-threaded. Looks like E-350 and D525 trade blows in AnandTech's CPU bench.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/328?vs=110

In some single/lightly threaded tasks, such as x264 1st pass, the D525 keeps up pretty well. It gets slaughtered in Cinebench R10 single-threaded, though.

 

[aigomorla]

So Intel delivered a Bulldozer like turd with their latest Atom, huh?

thats not fair..

intel didnt say this line was suposed to compete against a full blown desktop.

They told us straight its crap.. not wrap it in pretty ribbons telling everyone its a gold plated crap like they did with bulldozer.

 

[wlee15]

Probably one big reason is because he majorly messed up selling the ATI smart phone division to Qualcomm and for an awefully low $12 million only. The division was majorly bleeding money so I could see selling at the time.

Otherwise, he did everything quite well (I guess bd was a black eye though with the bod's being upset with him as well over that.). For sure the headlines now should be AMD, not Qualcomm going head to head with Intel in the smart phone market. The BOD's cringes at where they could be now I bet.

What AMD sold were IP relating to the handheld graphics and they actually sold it for $65 million. Everything else from the Imageon line was retained. What made Qualcomm so dominant in the mobile market was the combination of it's Scorpion CPU cores, it's wireless IP, as well as the graphics tech that it acquired from AMD.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Not too bright huh?

Simply both AMD and Intel released dud, uninspiring products in BD & this Atom.

Add this:

thats not fair..

intel didnt say this line was suposed to compete against a full blown desktop.

They told us straight its crap.. not wrap it in pretty ribbons telling everyone its a gold plated crap like they did with bulldozer.

And then the fact that Intel dosn't make it's bulk of money on the Atom series.
It's low margin territory....it's not their i7/i5 series....the bread on the butter.

It's not rocket science.

 

[Joepublic2]

Atom is shit; news at 11.

 

[Idontcare]

thats not fair..

intel didnt say this line was suposed to compete against a full blown desktop.

They told us straight its crap.. not wrap it in pretty ribbons telling everyone its a gold plated crap like they did with bulldozer.

I suspect gold plated crap would fetch a higher ASP

 

[CHADBOGA]

And then the fact that Intel dosn't make it's bulk of money on the Atom series.
It's low margin territory....it's not their i7/i5 series....the bread on the butter.

Whilst Intel will almost certainly get it right somewhere down the track, they need to make sure ARM doesn't get too great a foothold in the combined phone/tablet/low end desktop/laptop market.

So far ARM is entrenched in 2 of those 4 markets, if they manage to make significant ground in the other 2, then ARM becomes an existential threat to Intel, as an eco system that can challenge x86, will be there.

Having said that, I hope ARM can get into these markets and challenge Intel, because God knows AMD is too hopeless to do so.

So Atom is a very important product for Intel to get right, before it is too late.

They still have time, but this Atom ain't gonna do shit for them.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Whilst Intel will almost certainly get it right somewhere down the track, they need to make sure ARM doesn't get too great a foothold in the combined phone/tablet/low end desktop/laptop market.

So far ARM is entrenched in 2 of those 4 markets, if they manage to make significant ground in the other 2, then ARM becomes an existential threat to Intel, as an eco system that can challenge x86, will be there.

Having said that, I hope ARM can get into these markets and challenge Intel, because God knows AMD is too hopeless to do so.

So Atom is a very important product for Intel to get right, before it is too late.

They still have time, but this Atom ain't gonna do shit for them.

ARM now?
You are mixing highend x86, lowend x86 and ARM to get your agument to stick now....good luck :thumbsdown:

 

[CHADBOGA]

ARM now?
You are mixing highend x86, lowend x86 and ARM to get your agument to stick now....good luck :thumbsdown:

What an incoherent gibberish mess your reply is. :thumbsdown: D:

 

[Lonbjerg]

What an incoherent gibberish mess your reply is. :thumbsdown: D:

You are mixing highend x86 (Dulldozer) with lowend x86(Atom) with ARM(really, really really lowend and not same performance) in order to say Atom was a dud?

Why is that the only one that seems suprised is you?
What did you EXPECT from Atom?

And why in the world did you expect it?

 

[CHADBOGA]

You are mixing highend x86 (Dulldozer) with lowend x86(Atom) with ARM(really, really really lowend and not same performance) in order to say Atom was a dud?

Why is that the only one that seems suprised is you?
What did you EXPECT from Atom?

I was expecting meaningful improvement into markets where they aren't much of a player, but would like to be.

And why in the world did you expect it?

Isn't this the first Atom to get the 32nm treatment?

They go down a process node and hardly improve their competitive position.

Bulldozer also went down a process node and hardly improved its competitive position either.

Just because Atom and BD don't compete directly against each other, doesn't mean one can't draw the obvious comparison that in each of the respective markets they are targeting, they ain't going to do much.

 

[Lonbjerg]

I was expecting meaningful improvement into markets where they aren't much of a player, but would like to be.

Based on what?!

Isn't this the first Atom to get the 32nm treatment?

And?

They go down a process node and hardly improve their competitive position.

They improve their margins, logic.

Bulldozer also went down a process node and hardly improved its competitive position either.

Yeah lets forgot about the little thing called a new arch...:thumbsdown:
(go look up when the Atom gets a new arch)

Just because Atom and BD don't compete directly against each other, doesn't mean one can't draw the obvious comparison that in each of the respective markets they are targeting, they ain't going to do much.

So we are back to comparing chickens to motorcycles...the cirle is complete...gothca.

 

[Riek]

For some reason I thought they were closer in single-threaded. Looks like E-350 and D525 trade blows in AnandTech's CPU bench.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/328?vs=110

In some single/lightly threaded tasks, such as x264 1st pass, the D525 keeps up pretty well. It gets slaughtered in Cinebench R10 single-threaded, though.

Anand test are mostly heavy threaded applications.

While x264 pass 1 is indeed not extremely thread intensive it does use 4 threads rather well.

A x4 beats an x3 rather comfortably.

Atom has similar throughput as Zacate, but single -dual threaded applications give a total different outlook. (HT helps the Atom in-order design tremendously in throughput)