cdr recording dye

[endo022]

does it matter who the manufacturer of the cdr is or does it all boil down to what type of dye they use?

I see TDKs that used the "azo cyanine" dye (blue or aquagreen in color) and "pythocyanine" dye (light blue or light green in color) as well

some people swear by them and some people swear them off

then I see CMC or Ritek that get blasted by people and i check the dye on some of their cdr media
and again...some use the "azo cyanine" dye and some use the "pythocyanine" dye.

so..back to the main question...does it matter who the maker is or is what really matters is in the dye that they use?

 

[aka1nas]

I think that its mainly a matter of the dyes used, though between manufactuers I think quality can vary. I.E., in the extremely bargain basement brands, they may be using presses which have passed their rated lifetime and may not be pressing perfect CD-Rs, which can end up increasing the chance of errors.

 

[Evadman]

You can usually tell a bad CDR just by trying to see though it. I have some PNY's that you can see clearly though.

 

[Mark R]

The dye doesn't really affect quality much.

There are a few differences between them: pthalocyanine (very pale goldy-green) is the longest lasting - it is supposed to be able to last about 100 years, and is the only dye acceptable for use in archive quality CDRs. This dye is also better for use at very high recording speeds.

Cyanine (moderately green, blue, or turquoise - depending on formulation) is more common, because it is the original CDR dye, and is probably slightly cheaper. Its archival qualities are not as good, although some disc manufacturers quote a useable lifetime fo 75 years. This dye performs less well at high speeds, although newer formulations have improved this.

Azo (very deep blue) is quite rare - only manufacturerd by Mitsubishi, it is used in few discs (notably Verbatim). Its properties are similar to cyanine (hence the common mistake, that the two dyes are the same), and it is treated as such by CD-R drives. However, it is more stable than cyanine, has better UV resistance, and a longer life.

For most uses, there is little point in chosing one dye type over another. The brand is the most important; the best manufacturers go to lengths to ensure that the discs meet the appropriate specifications, and that the top coating won't peel off.

i once bought some cheap CDRs, and the quality was terrible - the markings on the top side had been burned into the dye (too much UV light during the lacquer curing phase), the top side peeled off in your hands, and there were air bubbles in the plastic on the recording surface!

 

[irwincur]

Basically production works in either one of three ways...

Factory X produces 1,000 blank CDs, they then bin them based on quality. After binned they throw out the lowest quality disks and take a write off. They then auction the disks to generic resellers who distribute them to private labels. So in the end the major brands are at the hands of the distributors and are generally seen as being equal to the generics it all comes down to who bids higher on the higher quality disks, so the branded labels tend to get better disks.

Factory X has 40 hours of production time per week. Disk Company X offers to buy 30 hours of pressing time for x amount of money. During this time they make 75% branded disks and another 25% unbranded that they can sell to resellers (these percentages would vary).

lastly Disk Company X has its own factory, or a good relationship with them. They also have two subsidiaries (generic disk x and generic disk y). All three of these companies get the same disks, but only dick company x brand get full packaging. The other two are either sold off as store brands or lesser brands. This is very common with the larger producers.

In all reality there are only a few plants in the world that actually make these disks. Most brands own many generics and quailty is generally pretty good since they buy from the same batch.

 

[endo022]

thx for the info

 

[jarsoffart]

What do the famed Taiyo Yuden discs use? Which dye is best? I'm assuming it is the Azo stuff.

 

[unclebabar]

> so..back to the main question...does it matter who the maker is or is what really matters is in the dye that they use?

I think the manufacturer matters. Remember, you get what you paid for (or didn't pay for if you got it free after rebate).

There was some story circulating about how some manufacturers (meaning your average fly-by-night generic) would buy blank molds and use a dye that the mold was not designed for, which is why supposedly the dye identification (which supposedly comes from the mold) from <your favorite cd-r media id program here> is not particularly useful for identifying a disc, but the ATIP info is (even though it's not useful either, since you didn't shell out $$$$ for the orange book standard manual so you could figure out what the $#@% Absolute Time In Pre-groove really means). :|

Some dyes supposedly last longer than others.

cd-r faq section 7

There's also a blurb, 7-19, about translucent media not necessarily being bad.

 

[Evadman]

There's also a blurb, 7-19, about translucent media not necessarily being bad.

I could easily see that. The lasers used in cd-r's are infrared, so it woud be possable to make a 100% ( or close to it) clear see though disk to normal light, but be opaque to infrared.

I was using my example as a "generic" test. I assume that if the disk can be seen though, then the layers have been skimped on. IMHO. I also tend to have better luck with opaque disks.

 

[unclebabar]

> I was using my example as a "generic" test. I assume that if the disk can be seen though, then the layers have been skimped on. IMHO. I also tend to have better luck with opaque disks.

It's a good "rule of thumb". My Mr. Crap (aka Mr. Data) cd-r's are more translucent than my more dependable brands, but then I've also had some sucky opaque brands (old Ritek TDKs). I'll have to agree that a cd-r with solid topcoat is less likely to fail than one with a skimpy topcoat. It's like judging power supply quality by weight; the correlation with quality may not be 100%, but it's still a good indicator.