Catholocism = Christianity?

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kinev

Golden Member
Mar 28, 2005
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Originally posted by: dornick
Originally posted by: Nik
Originally posted by: dornick
I just wanted to say one last time that Catholic doctrine is NOT unbiblical. And to plead again that you guys actually read some real Catholic literature. Like many anti-Catholics out there, I have a strong feeling you guys don't have a real understanding of the faith.

God Bless.

Just because you SAY it's not unbiblical doesn't mean it magically changes, fixes itself, and becomes biblical. Catholic doctrine is NOT biblical and many have proven it in this thread.

Everything presented in this thread has either been a severe distortion of real Catholicism or misunderstandings.

I'm going to say this one LAST time. Read some Catholic literature! When you're familiar with the REAL Catholic church, then we'll talk. I'm done.

That's fair enough. I totally agree with you that a knowledge base is needed to compare anything. But, I have a feeling you just want to call me an anti-Catholic without reading what I have written. It's often easier to label someone that actually read/listen to their ideas and think.

Would you consider Catholic.org and the Catholic Catechism Catholic literature? I do. I read them, posted them, and contrasted them with Protestant views. I guess you missed it so here it is:

Catholic.org states:

"The doctrine of the sacraments is the doctrine of the second part of God's way of salvation to us."

"A sacrament, administered properly in the way established by Christ and with the proper intention, gives the grace it signifies."

"The Church Thus Teaches: There are seven sacraments. They were instituted by Christ and given to the Church to administer. They are necessary for salvation."

Okay, the Catechism teaches that the sacraments are necessary for salvation. No "distortion". No "misunderstanding". Straight from the horse's mouth. Let's look at what the Bible says:

Eph 2:8-9
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith?and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God? not by works, so that no one can boast."

Romans 3:23-25
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood."

Gal 2:16
"know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified."

2 Tim 1:8-9
"by the power of God, who has saved us and called us to a holy life?not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time"

Romans 9:30-32
"What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone.""

So, to spell it out, Catholicism teaches that salvation is from Jesus + sacraments (works) while the Bible teaches that salvation is through faith alone, specifically not works (sacraments). Therefore, Catholicism is teaching un-Biblical doctrine. Simple. This is not even touching the thief on the cross. He didn't have the Catholic church perform any sacraments on him, but Jesus himself said that he would be in Heaven. Hmmm.....maybe the sacraments aren't necessary for salvation.

In the other Catholic thread I chronicled a brief history of the pope gaining power (both religious and political). This is part of the reason why Catholic doctrine is un-Biblical. A great deal of the Catholic doctrine is designed to increase the church's power over the people. If people can freely receive the gift of salvation through Jesus, they don't rely as heavily on the church for their spiritual needs. Along comes the Catholic church to try to take control of this by, basically, creating new rules in the middle of the game.

Enter plenary and partial indulgences. Pay the church and save yourself from some punishment. You can't do it on your own, you need us (the Catholic church) to do it for you. Power +1

Enter confessionals. You need a priest to be an intermediary between you and God in order to forgive your sins, despite the fact that Jesus died for us so we can have a personal relationship with God. No, you can't ask forgiveness of your sins by yourself, you need to do that in a Catholic church. That's the only way you will be forgiven. You need the Catholic church to do it for you. Power +3

Enter the sacraments. You need to do these seven things (all which can only be done by the Catholic church) in order to gain enough "Heavenly Points" and fill up your "Grace Meter" so you can get into Heaven. Yeah, this goes against scripture, but we have a way around that (see later discussion). If we (the Catholic church) can literally control the gates of heaven, man, we could really have control over these people. Let's just hope that they don't actually read the Bible and find out that it is only faith that they need. If they did, we'd lose a lot of our monopoly on Heaven. Power +10

I can go on, but the point is clear. The question remains, though, how does the Catholic church get away with teachings so contrary to the Bible. Simple. They made up new rules that state that tradition and rituals are as important as the Bible. Yes, tradition and rituals are made by man (in order to increase the Church's power as I just showed), but the Catholic church says we should follow them as much as we follow the Bible. Don't believe me? Here's an interesting quote:

Vatican.va - The Catholic Catechism
"both Scripture and tradition must be accepted and honored with equal feelings of devotion and reverence" Paragraph 82 from "real Catholic literature".

Let?s see what the Bible has to say.

Mark 7:7-9
"'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.' You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."
And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!"

Mat 15:3-6
"Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?...Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition."

Col 2:8
"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ."

Wow. Even Jesus himself warned us about putting an over-emphasis on tradition. Paul wrote in Colossians, "depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than Christ" Sound familiar? Power -elenty billion

Now that I'm done with my mini, on-line Bible study, I know this was a long post, but there is some important information in here. If you read it all, :thumbsup:. Yes, I did read "real Catholic literature" as well as Divinely inspired scripture. I'll go with God's book over man's power struggle, thank you.

I also have not gone into all the other aspects of the Catholic church which go against scripture (see Mary, the Saints, idolatry, etc). I'm not anti-Catholic, either. The individuals are usually nice people who have been horribly mislead. If just one person reads this and even looks into the issue further, then the 2+ hours it took me to write this post were worth it.

Remember, I am not attacking anyone personally, just pointing out contradictions between the teachings of the Catholic church and Scripture.
 

Aquila76

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2004
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Originally posted by: kinev

...

Awesome research, bro! I was raised Catholic, but after I stopped blindly following and started to actually look for the proper ways to worship God (I was 12 then), I realised that most of the teachings of Catholicism (and really all religions) were to make its adherents followers of the Church's traditions and not to make followers of God.
I consider myself Christian, but I don't attend church services anywhere. I just try to live my life according to what God instructed Jesus to teach while He was on Earth, namely, 'Love God' and 'Love your Neighbor'. These two 'rules' are all that is needed to live in happiness with everyone else. That's what the original Ten Commandments and, later, the entire Sermon on the Mount all boil down to. If everybody followed those rules, Christian or not, we would all have a much nicer place to live.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
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Actually, I disagree entirely with the argument that kinev presents, and always have with all Christian groups that present it. If faith alone was that was important (singular to salvation), then why have we been given commandments and told how we should live and conduct ourselves? Obviously, that doesn't make sense, now does it?

Unless... we stop for one moment and consider that all of those "faith alone" passages that kinev quoted (and are often cited for just this purpose) are actually telling us that salvation is gift derived solely from God and cannot be given by any one man to another, and that that is ALL that those passages are telling us. Nothing more.

For example, every "faith alone" champion likes to cite Ephesians 2:8-9 (see kinev's post above), and ALWAYS forgets to put it in context with verse 10:
"For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."
Whoops! What Eph 2:8-10 really says, when taken in full context, is that we are not saved by ourselves, but solely from the grace of God, through our faith of Him to do what he created us to do, which is good deeds and righteousness (works). This context is reinforced by Christ's pronouncement of the Golden Rule (Matthew 7:12) and the Greatest Commandment (Matthew 22:34-40). If faith alone saves, then why oh why do "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments"??

In fact, works AND faith are required for salvation, as Jesus Himself told us (Matthew 7:21), and as the apostle James reinforced (James 2:14-26). The reality is that works (good deeds, righteous life, and the abiding of the commandments) and faith are the exact same thing. If you have faith but not works, then you do not have faith, and if you have works but not faith, then all your works are for naught (see Matthew 7 again, versus 21-23).

Now there is no question that Catholicism erred in the past when it required indulgences, and that it errs even now when it says that interdiction of priest is required for salvation, but that does not stop Catholicism from being Christianity. Or... at least Catholicism is not any less Christian than modern Prostestantism when that it errs by saying that faith alone is sufficient to salvation and that an evil life punctuated by infrequent cries of "Lord! Lord!" and the self-bestowing of the title of "born again" is sufficient for salvation, when absolutely NOTHING could be further from the truth.
Therefore, if Catholicism is not Christianity because of its errs, the Protestantism is not Christianity because of its own errs. In reality, both are Christianity but, being human institutions are subject to human failings. As salvation is a very individual event, it is (in the end) up to the individual to find the proper path to God in his own heart, and not to rely on the failings of human institutions, or to soullessly follow by rote.

The fact of the matter is that both Catholicism and Protestantism are typically engaged in the same fallacy as was W.C. Fields when he, an avowed atheist, when he was found reading the Bible on his deathbed. Asked why he, of all people, would be reading a Bible on his deathbed, he is reported to have said, "Looking for loopholes." Unfortunately, so are most Christians looking for loopholes, when the facts and necessities are right before their faces, which only their hypocracies prevent them from seeing.


Regardless, Catholicism = Christianity as Gurck = troll. Both statements are undeniably true.
 

Gurck

Banned
Mar 16, 2004
12,963
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Originally posted by: Vic
Catholicism = Christianity as Gurck = troll. Both statements are undeniably true.
So you're saying they're two different religions? :confused:
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
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Originally posted by: Gurck
Originally posted by: Vic
Catholicism = Christianity as Gurck = troll. Both statements are undeniably true.
So you're saying they're two different religions? :confused:
Uhh no.

Statement:
Catholicism is to Christianity as Gurck is to troll.
Proof:
Gurck = troll (just as 2 + 2 = 4).
Therefore, Catholicism = Christianity.
 

Gurck

Banned
Mar 16, 2004
12,963
1
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Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Gurck
Originally posted by: Vic
Catholicism = Christianity as Gurck = troll. Both statements are undeniably true.
So you're saying they're two different religions? :confused:
Uhh no.

Statement:
Catholicism is to Christianity as Gurck is to troll.
Proof:
Gurck = troll (just as 2 + 2 = 4).
Therefore, Catholicism = Christianity.

So it's a trick with the .9bar = 1 thing, ie. 2(.9bar*2) != 4)?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
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Do you EVER actually contribute anything intelligent here, Gurck? This thread alone is undeniable proof of your trollishness. You post something inflammatory with little contribution of your own and then sit back and watch the flames fly. That's the true definition of a troll, and you do it all the time. The least you could do is face reality and wear your trollishness with some semblence of pride (as you are, admittedly, quite good at it).
 

dornick

Senior member
Jan 30, 2005
751
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0
Originally posted by: kinev
Originally posted by: dornick
Originally posted by: Nik
Originally posted by: dornick
I just wanted to say one last time that Catholic doctrine is NOT unbiblical. And to plead again that you guys actually read some real Catholic literature. Like many anti-Catholics out there, I have a strong feeling you guys don't have a real understanding of the faith.

God Bless.

Just because you SAY it's not unbiblical doesn't mean it magically changes, fixes itself, and becomes biblical. Catholic doctrine is NOT biblical and many have proven it in this thread.

Everything presented in this thread has either been a severe distortion of real Catholicism or misunderstandings.

I'm going to say this one LAST time. Read some Catholic literature! When you're familiar with the REAL Catholic church, then we'll talk. I'm done.

See long post above

I appreciate the effort you put into this. I'm basically just going to respond to a few things because I don't want to get into a lengthy debate (mainly because I don't know nearly enough to respond intelligently).

On the sacrament issue, I'm really not sure. I don't think the teaching is in the same sense you are trying to convey it as. For example, does one have to be married and be a priest in order to go to heaven? However, I am sure that Catholics do not hinge salvation on any action.

In regards to faith alone, all the Scripture you quoted basically say salvation is a gift from God, not something we earn. The Church agrees 100%. Part of accepting that gift though, is the willingness to be righteous. How many times does Jesus say men will be judged on their actions? A lot. Or how about, as Vic alluded to, the people who cry out Lord! Lord! yet Jesus denies them.

In regards to the Church and power, I can actually agree with you here. The Church as a whole is infallible and invincible, but it's composed of people who are very fallible (even Popes). Yes, there have been plenty of times in history when members of the Church abused their power. Yes, they still do it today. Doctrinally, however, the Church is the same as always. And this is the key to its immortality.

And finally, regarding tradition, you have to look at this from the Catholic point of view. Since the Bible wasn't completely compiled until the 4th century, oral tradition was ALL anybody had. And when you add on that it's the Apostolic Church maintaining and teaching this tradition, it isn't hard to see why it's treated with respect. It's basically the teachings of the original Church put together by Jesus followers.

I realize this post isn't anywhere near convincing and I apologize for that. Like I said, I'm no apologist. You'll just have to settle with an assurance from me that Catholicism is correct, because that's all I can offer.
 

Gurck

Banned
Mar 16, 2004
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Originally posted by: Vic
Do you EVER actually contribute anything intelligent here, Gurck? This thread alone is undeniable proof of your trollishness. You post something inflammatory with little contribution of your own and then sit back and watch the flames fly. That's the true definition of a troll, and you do it all the time. The least you could do is face reality and wear your trollishness with some semblence of pride (as you are, admittedly, quite good at it).
Contribute something intelligent... what, like your responses here?

This thread is nothing more than me asking a fairly simple question and watching in awe as people prove they want to argue and, lacking a real reason, will make one up. As I've said, I had no idea it'd be engulfed like this. And I tend to participate, rather than watch, though I'm admittedly outclassed here in terms of religious knowledge and so haven't taken part.

Others have agreed this wasn't a troll post, many of them religious themselves. The real fact of the matter is that you know I'm an atheist and can't deal with that, thus feel the need to flame me. Doing so in a thread about religion gives you the sense of righeousness needed to do so. Need I remind you of a past thread where you said "I'm extremely open to other people's beliefs" and followed it up in the very next post by referring to atheists as "self-righteous idiot non-theists", claiming that no one cared about "their worthless souls"?

You like to believe your precious religion is being persecuted, but in reality it's merely losing a bit of the iron grip it's had for so long. Finally, people who believe differently are able to say so without fear of persecution or death. Sad that this scares you so much you have to pull crap like what you're doing here.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
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Originally posted by: Nik

There's no such thing as a Jewish Christian. The two "religions" teach very different things about Christ which are crucial to the fundamental, core principles of each "religion."

Messianic Jews are Jews that believe that Christ was the son of God, but "jew" refers to the race, not the religion. You cannot belong to two opposing forces at the same time. You either believe that Christ was the son of God or you don't.

You just are not getting it.

Christians were originally Jews that believed in Jesus. They were still Jews. These Christians became Catholics for a time some of them and then separated.

However, the whole Judaism/Christianity thing is laced with Paganism.

Also most Jewish people believe Christ is the son of/is God, however; they don't think he has come yet.

 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
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Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: Nik

There's no such thing as a Jewish Christian. The two "religions" teach very different things about Christ which are crucial to the fundamental, core principles of each "religion."

Messianic Jews are Jews that believe that Christ was the son of God, but "jew" refers to the race, not the religion. You cannot belong to two opposing forces at the same time. You either believe that Christ was the son of God or you don't.

You just are not getting it.

Christians were originally Jews that believed in Jesus. They were still Jews. These Christians became Catholics for a time some of them and then separated.

However, the whole Judaism/Christianity thing is laced with Paganism.

Also most Jewish people believe Christ is the son of/is God, however; they don't think he has come yet.

:laugh:

funniest sh|t evar

Nobody's still ever shown me in the bible where the word Catholic is written...
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,303
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Originally posted by: Gurck
Contribute something intelligent... what, like your responses here?

This thread is nothing more than me asking a fairly simple question and watching in awe as people prove they want to argue and, lacking a real reason, will make one up. As I've said, I had no idea it'd be engulfed like this. And I tend to participate, rather than watch, though I'm admittedly outclassed here in terms of religious knowledge and so haven't taken part.

Others have agreed this wasn't a troll post, many of them religious themselves. The real fact of the matter is that you know I'm an atheist and can't deal with that, thus feel the need to flame me. Doing so in a thread about religion gives you the sense of righeousness needed to do so. Need I remind you of a past thread where you said "I'm extremely open to other people's beliefs" and followed it up in the very next post by referring to atheists as "self-righteous idiot non-theists", claiming that no one cared about "their worthless souls"?
Boohoo, Gurck. The problem you have with me is that you steadfastly believe that I am something I am most certainly not, i.e. a holy roller. Did you completely fail to notice how I slammed both Catholicism and Protestantism in my earlier post? It sure seems that you did.

The problem I have with you is that you are just one more asshole who likes to slam on things you know absolutely nothing about (which you even admit here). The kind of person who thinks that ignorance equates to superiority (a kind that is unfortunately not uncommon).
You only mention that one post of mine once again because that's when I slammed your own medicine back down your throat, but you still haven't figured that out yet. If you were truly non-theist, then you wouldn't care about your soul or what anyone thought about it (as it's supposed to be imaginary, is it not?). That you actually do care speaks volumes about you, and I'm surprised that you're still stupid enough to bring up that which is so damning against you.

What you did in this thread is clearly obvious to me, if not to others. Because you lack understanding (and hate all that you don't understand), you hate religion and spirituality and all that goes with that. Knowing that the easiest way to destroy your foes is to divide them, you create trollish flamebait threads like this one in order to do exactly that.
Clear as glass to me you are, my dear Gurck, clear as glass.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
Originally posted by: Nik
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: Nik

There's no such thing as a Jewish Christian. The two "religions" teach very different things about Christ which are crucial to the fundamental, core principles of each "religion."

Messianic Jews are Jews that believe that Christ was the son of God, but "jew" refers to the race, not the religion. You cannot belong to two opposing forces at the same time. You either believe that Christ was the son of God or you don't.

You just are not getting it.

Christians were originally Jews that believed in Jesus. They were still Jews. These Christians became Catholics for a time some of them and then separated.

However, the whole Judaism/Christianity thing is laced with Paganism.

Also most Jewish people believe Christ is the son of/is God, however; they don't think he has come yet.

:laugh:

funniest sh|t evar

Nobody's still ever shown me in the bible where the word Catholic is written...

you are obviously trolling...where are any of the christianity subsets mentioned?

Either way you have to understand that usually when any religious story is written, the people that come to follow it are not mentioned within it. Goes for history too.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,303
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Originally posted by: Nik
Nobody's still ever shown me in the bible where the word Catholic is written...
Huh? That's not a very intelligent question, Nik. The word Catholic comes from the Greek katholikos and Latin catholicus, and means (roughly translated) "universally accepted." Text

You're basically asking to be shown where in the Bible it says One True Church.
 

Gurck

Banned
Mar 16, 2004
12,963
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Lol, way to avoid my post & throw a few names in there, the elite do not disappoint :p It's curious that you call me "clear as glass", when in fact I couldn't have come up with a better term to describe you; it seems to be a cut & dried case of projection. As long as you consider people who don't share your religious beliefs to be attacking them by stating their own, we can't really converse much more on this. If you decide to reunite with reality, let me know and we can give it a shot. Till then...
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
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Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: Nik
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: Nik

There's no such thing as a Jewish Christian. The two "religions" teach very different things about Christ which are crucial to the fundamental, core principles of each "religion."

Messianic Jews are Jews that believe that Christ was the son of God, but "jew" refers to the race, not the religion. You cannot belong to two opposing forces at the same time. You either believe that Christ was the son of God or you don't.

You just are not getting it.

Christians were originally Jews that believed in Jesus. They were still Jews. These Christians became Catholics for a time some of them and then separated.

However, the whole Judaism/Christianity thing is laced with Paganism.

Also most Jewish people believe Christ is the son of/is God, however; they don't think he has come yet.

:laugh:

funniest sh|t evar

Nobody's still ever shown me in the bible where the word Catholic is written...

you are obviously trolling...where are any of the christianity subsets mentioned?

Either way you have to understand that usually when any religious story is written, the people that come to follow it are not mentioned within it. Goes for history too.

That's why I prefer to follow a non-denominational, non-religious spiritual Christianity instead of a legalistic, ritualistic one. :)
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,303
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Originally posted by: Gurck
Lol, way to avoid my post & throw a few names in there, the elite do not disappoint :p It's curious that you call me "clear as glass", when in fact I couldn't have come up with a better term to describe you; it seems to be a cut & dried case of projection. As long as you consider people who don't share your religious beliefs to be attacking them by stating their own, we can't really converse much more on this. If you decide to reunite with reality, let me know and we can give it a shot. Till then...
You are such an idiot. Who's projecting who? You obviously, as you project on me what you want to believe about me, even when fact proves time and time again that your projections are completely wrong. I don't attack you for your lack of religious beliefs, I've made this clear time and again before. As I made extremely clear once before and you constantly remind me, I don't give one rat's ass about your worthless soul. Why is that I wonder? I leave it to you to figure out, but despite my constant instructing, I sincerely doubt you ever will. Here's one last hint: it's not because of any religious hypocracy (which is what you foolishly think).

If I attack you, as you say, it is because you ignorantly attack things you don't understand, and I despise people like that. In fact, I think that what I am doing is defending, while you are the one attacking, as you lash out at anything and everything that your pathetic feeble mind cannot understand.

In the meantime, I have made it abundantly clear that I do not worship nor do I believe in the invented Greek god of Yah-Zeus Krestus, nor do I think he was the son of God, nor do I think he was crucified for our sins, nor do I think this imaginary figure of Paul's creation was resurrected to give us eternal life. Everyone else here seems to know this about me, but you, Gurck, are the only one who seems to have lost the memo.

Now the Jewish prophet of Yeshua bar Yesuf of Nazareth was one hell of a guy, possibly the best who ever lived, but I can't seem to find any of His churches or any religion devoted to His teachings.
 

Gurck

Banned
Mar 16, 2004
12,963
1
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Originally posted by: Vic
You are such an idiot
Oh boy, what can I possibly say in response to this? Looks like you "pwnt" me there, I don't want to continue lest you slap a "stfu, doodoohead" on me. Why do I even post on a board where the average age is under 20?
Originally posted by: Vic
I don't attack you for your lack of religious beliefs
Originally posted by: Vic
self-righteous idiot non-theists
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,303
136
:roll:

If it's not one weak slight, it's another, isn't it, Gurck? Classic troll. Anything to keep it going. You want to attack me for yet one more false perception about me, this time my age, you can PM Nik about that, as he has met me in real life, and can vouch that I am well above 20. I have also met RagingBitch in real life, so you could ask him as well. Next, you're going me slighting me about some member status I've been given here that I didn't ask for, pretending that that status is a badge of shame of some type, when in fact you just have sour grapes knowing that such status will NEVER be given to you (looking through glass once again).

As for your little quotes there, like I said, that was your own medicine right back down your throat. There is no one here who would say that you didn't deserve it. Or that you wouldn't deserve any more of it except that you're too damn stupid to recognize your own medicine when it's handed back to you.
 

Gurck

Banned
Mar 16, 2004
12,963
1
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Originally posted by: Vic
If it's not one weak slight, it's another, isn't it, Gurck?
Weak slight? You asserted that all those of a parciular belief system are 'self-righeous idiots'.
you can PM Nik about that, as he has met me in real life, and can vouch that I am well above 20. I have also met RagingBitch in real life, so you could ask him as well.
Amazing then that you feel namecalling is a valid debate tactic. You can't even make the excuse of age.
pretending that that status is a badge of shame of some type, when in fact you just have sour grapes knowing that such status will NEVER be given to you
No pretending necessary, and I'm not alone in feeling this way. I certainly hope it's never given to me, I'd ask to have it removed if it were. Hopefully stating & backing up my opinions, rather than calling people names for disagreeing with me, will act as a good preventative measure. Commenting on the general immaturity & lack of intelligence displayed by many elite members is probably helping out as well.

What's most ironic is that you call me a troll, yet this back & forth is due entirely to you. Whatever bends of logic are necessary, I guess, when promoting Christianity and suppressing other beliefs, especially atheism :roll:
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
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Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
All Catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are Catholics.

Correct. Some are methodists, lutheran, pentecostal, full gospel, baptist, and quite a few more :).
 

bNeta86

Member
May 7, 2002
176
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The heart of the issue is really who gets into heaven and who doesnt isnt it? Does it really matter if you are a Christian or a Catholic?

I believe that most Catholics are being led astray by the reasons aforementioned in this thread...but does that mean that they are not followers of Christ?

I also think many "Christians" are simply not being led anywhere. This is a debate that no one can really prove or disprove.


I certainly agree that the Catholic faith using primarily tradition as a justification for some of the "requirements" to be a Catholic are simply flying directly in the face of

The fact that they consider Mary blameless is such a rediculous idea I cannot even understand someone could come to grips with it. ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. Jesus - WHO IS GOD - is the only sinless man ever to walk the earth. There is no Mary exception. Despite how much the Catholics love her/pray to her. (ohh right...on their behalf...Riiiigggghhhhtttt)



So...some Catholics will go to Heaven - and some Protestants will go to Hell...in the end, who are we to judge ;-)
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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Thier all christians, even moroms are christains, they just have a different view how you achive salvation.. with Catholics it's works and faith..with most protestants it's faith alone.
 

Metalloid

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2002
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Originally posted by: DAGTA
Originally posted by: Fritzo
Uhh, Catholics are the ORIGINAL form of Christiananity. They started the whole thing with the church headed by St. Peter. All other forms of Christianity are offshoots of Catholicism.

No. Catholicism is one of the oldest churches based off of Christianity but it was not the original. Read the book of Acts if you want to know more.

Do I sense a little Apostolic Pentecostalism?