Catholics: Splain this to me

[DurocShark]

"We also call these spiritual goods of the communion of saints the Church's treasury, which is "not the sum total of the material goods which have accumulated during the course of the centuries. On the contrary the 'treasury of the Church' is the infinite value, which can never be exhausted, which Christ's merits have before God. They were offered so that the whole of mankind could be set free from sin and attain communion with the Father. In Christ, the Redeemer himself, the satisfactions and merits of his Redemption exist and find their efficacy." (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1476)

And

"This treasury includes as well the prayers and good works of the Blessed Virgin Mary. They are truly immense, unfathomable, and even pristine in their value before God. In the treasury, too, are the prayers and good works of all the saints, all those who have followed in the footsteps of Christ the Lord and by his grace have made their lives holy and carried out the mission in the unity of the Mystical Body." (CCC 1477)

These Catechisms are still referenced by the church.

So tell me how the Church can absolve sins? The Bible leaves that to Jesus, doesn't it? Seems to me the Indulgences are just a way to keep folks tied to the Catholic Church.

 

[DurocShark]

Wow. Nothing?

heeheehee

Didn't expect much, but was hoping.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: DurocShark

"We also call these spiritual goods of the communion of saints the Church's treasury, which is "not the sum total of the material goods which have accumulated during the course of the centuries. On the contrary the 'treasury of the Church' is the infinite value, which can never be exhausted, which Christ's merits have before God. They were offered so that the whole of mankind could be set free from sin and attain communion with the Father. In Christ, the Redeemer himself, the satisfactions and merits of his Redemption exist and find their efficacy." (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1476)

And

"This treasury includes as well the prayers and good works of the Blessed Virgin Mary. They are truly immense, unfathomable, and even pristine in their value before God. In the treasury, too, are the prayers and good works of all the saints, all those who have followed in the footsteps of Christ the Lord and by his grace have made their lives holy and carried out the mission in the unity of the Mystical Body." (CCC 1477)

These Catechisms are still referenced by the church.

So tell me how the Church can absolve sins? The Bible leaves that to Jesus, doesn't it? Seems to me the Indulgences are just a way to keep folks tied to the Catholic Church.

the church doesn't absolve sins.

 

[Lonyo]

Either no one cares, or they are tired of the Catholic bashing.

 

[DurocShark]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
Either no one cares, or they are tired of the Catholic bashing.

It's not bashing, but a genuine question.

And if the church doesn't absolve sins, what's the point of the whole Treasury thing?

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: DurocShark

Originally posted by: Lonyo
Either no one cares, or they are tired of the Catholic bashing.

It's not bashing, but a genuine question.

And if the church doesn't absolve sins, what's the point of the whole Treasury thing?

You're misinterpreting the word "Treasury" here. You're assuming it deals with material things. Re-read the two passages you posted and you'll understand that this "Treasury" refers to the Good News of salvation through Christ and all of the good acts done by Him and the Saints.

 

[drinkmorejava]

It's called the treasury of merit. Basically it was the basis behind selling indulgences. Because Catholics have done tons of good stuff in the past, they'll sell you some of those good deeds so you or someone you know can get less time in purgatory. Notice the years though, none of that stuff is followed anymore.

 

[DurocShark]

No, the Treasury, as described in the Catechisms, is a repository of the good acts and whatever that can be doled out by the church to reduce time in Purgatory (where is Purgatory in the Bible anyway?).

Here's a good description of what I'm talking about:

The Treasury of the Church is a storehouse of merit that has been earned the sacrifice of Christ and the prayers and good works of the the Virgin Mary and all the saints. This reservoir of merit is drawn upon and applied to Roman Catholics via the Roman Catholic Church so that their future duration of punishment might be reduced. So, essentially what we have is a system where merit is dispensed through the Roman Catholic sacraments and priesthood.

...

The obvious problem with indulgence is that they negates the all-sufficiency of the cross. It was Jesus who took our punishment. He took our place so that we do not have to suffer any punishment for our sins so that we might be made right with God. We are not saying that sins have consequences and punishments. We are saying that being made right with God is not by our suffering, but by Christ's.

(Yes, that's an Apologetic writing, so is of course biased.)

The coming of the Christ is described in the Bible as the absolvement of sins if you believe in Him. So why would you need anything else?

 

[DurocShark]

Originally posted by: drinkmorejava
Notice the years though, none of that stuff is followed anymore.

That's not what I'm told by ex-Catholic friends. That's why I went looking for this. I've never been Catholic, so wouldn't know about this stuff unless someone sent me looking.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: DurocShark

Originally posted by: drinkmorejava
Notice the years though, none of that stuff is followed anymore.

That's not what I'm told by ex-Catholic friends. That's why I went looking for this. I've never been Catholic, so wouldn't know about this stuff unless someone sent me looking.

oh yes those "ex-Catholic friends". can anyone have too many of them? :laugh:

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: DurocShark

"We also call these spiritual goods of the communion of saints the Church's treasury, which is "not the sum total of the material goods which have accumulated during the course of the centuries. On the contrary the 'treasury of the Church' is the infinite value, which can never be exhausted, which Christ's merits have before God. They were offered so that the whole of mankind could be set free from sin and attain communion with the Father. In Christ, the Redeemer himself, the satisfactions and merits of his Redemption exist and find their efficacy." (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1476)

And

"This treasury includes as well the prayers and good works of the Blessed Virgin Mary. They are truly immense, unfathomable, and even pristine in their value before God. In the treasury, too, are the prayers and good works of all the saints, all those who have followed in the footsteps of Christ the Lord and by his grace have made their lives holy and carried out the mission in the unity of the Mystical Body." (CCC 1477)

These Catechisms are still referenced by the church.

So tell me how the Church can absolve sins? The Bible leaves that to Jesus, doesn't it? Seems to me the Indulgences are just a way to keep folks tied to the Catholic Church.

Dude Jesus is dead.. how is he going to absolve sins? IIRC, Jesus gave the apostles the pwoer to absolve sins, which they did.

 

[boggsie]

Originally posted by: DurocShark
Seems to me the Indulgences are just a way to keep folks tied to the Catholic Church.

ding - ding - ding - ding

WINNAH!

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: boggsie

Originally posted by: DurocShark
Seems to me the Indulgences are just a way to keep folks tied to the Catholic Church.

ding - ding - ding - ding

WINNAH!

:roll:

I'm not sure what the exact meaning of that is as, while I am Catholic, I'm not an expert on the rules of the church. This topic never comes up, and doesn't seem to affect the church at all from a parishioner's standpoint. It might be something obscure that doesn't really have any meaning on today's church.

 

[glen]

Christ grants his representatives the right to absolve sin in in His name in John 20.

If you have any serious questions PM me, the forums here get so distorted on both sides that it simply isn't fruitful to try to discuss much about it here.

 

[boggsie]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: boggsie

Originally posted by: DurocShark
Seems to me the Indulgences are just a way to keep folks tied to the Catholic Church.

ding - ding - ding - ding

WINNAH!

:roll:

I'm not sure what the exact meaning of that is as, while I am Catholic, I'm not an expert on the rules of the church. This topic never comes up, and doesn't seem to affect the church at all from a parishioner's standpoint. It might be something obscure that doesn't really have any meaning on today's church.

"They bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders."

 

[Spamela]

Originally posted by: DurocShark

"We also call these spiritual goods of the communion of saints the Church's treasury, which is "not the sum total of the material goods which have accumulated during the course of the centuries. On the contrary the 'treasury of the Church' is the infinite value, which can never be exhausted, which Christ's merits have before God. They were offered so that the whole of mankind could be set free from sin and attain communion with the Father. In Christ, the Redeemer himself, the satisfactions and merits of his Redemption exist and find their efficacy." (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1476)

And

"This treasury includes as well the prayers and good works of the Blessed Virgin Mary. They are truly immense, unfathomable, and even pristine in their value before God. In the treasury, too, are the prayers and good works of all the saints, all those who have followed in the footsteps of Christ the Lord and by his grace have made their lives holy and carried out the mission in the unity of the Mystical Body." (CCC 1477)

These Catechisms are still referenced by the church.

So tell me how the Church can absolve sins? The Bible leaves that to Jesus, doesn't it? Seems to me the Indulgences are just a way to keep folks tied to the Catholic Church.

there's a lot of confusion in this thread.

indulgences reduce or eliminate the time spent in purgatory.
they still exist (here's a list),
but nothing compels a Catholic to seek one.

the word "Purgatory" isn't in the Bible, but the existence of it can
be inferred by several passages.

if you don't know anything about Catholicism, then the
Catechism is probably the wrong place to start.
speaking with a Priest or a church's Director of Religious
Education is a much better way to go.