Catholic Social Services and foster parents sue Philadelphia

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
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http://www.philly.com/philly/news/c...awsuit-city-dhs-foster-children-20180518.html

Opening a legal front in an ongoing battle, the Archdiocese of Philadelphia’s social services agency has accused the city of religious discrimination for suspending its foster-care placement contracts because the agency refuses to place children with same-sex couples.

In a federal lawsuit filed late Wednesday, lawyers for Catholic Social Services and three foster parents are asking a judge to order the city to resume its contracts and award damages. It said the March 15 decision halting future placements puts politics over children.

“Unsurprisingly, the city’s actions are creating a severe human cost,” the suit says. “Available foster homes are sitting empty.”

City officials on Friday would not comment on the lawsuit but defended their decision to stop foster-care placements through the church agency. “As Catholic Social Services works on the city’s behalf, we cannot allow discrimination against qualified couples who are ready to take on this important role simply because of who they are,” said a statement from spokeswoman Deana Gamble.

Catholic Social Services and a second faith-based agency, Bethany Christian Services, came under fire after the Inquirer and Daily News reported in March that Bethany had turned away a same-sex couple who sought to become foster parents.

City officials said such a stance violates its contract rules, which prohibit discrimination against individuals based on sex, gender identity, or sexual orientation. They suspended the contracts and launched a Human Relations Commission investigation into the practice. At the same time, the city put out an urgent call for about 300 more foster families.

The two agencies together collect about $3 million a year from the city for foster-care reimbursements, and had placed more than 230 children in city foster homes.

Bethany is not a party to the legal fight, but in a statement Friday said, “It is our hope that government and community organizations can work together in partnership to be part of the solution, offering services to vulnerable children and families.”

The lawsuit was filed by Becket, a Washington-based law firm that specializes in religious liberty cases. The Philadelphia foster parents named as plaintiffs are Sharonell Fulton, Cecelia Paul, and Toni Lynn Simms-Busch, who the suit says will no longer or will unlikely be able to foster children if Catholic Social Services is forced to close its program.

According to the suit, Paul has worked with Catholic Social Services for 46 years and has fostered 133 children. She had been honored by the city in 2015 as one of its Foster Parents of the Year for her care.

Simms-Busch previously worked as a foster-care social worker with a private agency and later as a child-advocate social worker who spent four years working at the Defender Association of Philadelphia, according to the lawsuit. She now cares for two very young foster children and chose to work with Catholic Social Services because of the agency’s high level of care and her religious beliefs, it says.

Fulton has fostered more than 40 children for more than 25 years and shares the religious beliefs of Catholic Social Services, the suit says. She has cared for children with significant medical needs and is caring for two special-needs foster children.

“If the city terminates its contract with Catholic Social Services, or refuses to renew the contract in June, Ms. Fulton’s two current foster children will be immediately transferred away,” the suit says.

Does it make sense to discriminate against Catholic Social Services for its position on same-sex couples with so many children needing placement?

What is a higher priority? How many children are left without foster homes as a result?
 
Jan 25, 2011
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http://www.philly.com/philly/news/c...awsuit-city-dhs-foster-children-20180518.html



Does it make sense to discriminate against Catholic Social Services for its position on same-sex couples with so many children needing placement?

What is a higher priority? How many children are left without foster homes as a result?
You mean as long as they are placed with the type of parents you approve of right? How many good homes are these kids being shut out of by banning gay adoption when there is nothing that shows it to be any more detrimental than an opposite sex couple? Does it make sense that loving people aren't allowed to adopt these kids and get them out of the situations they are in?

I'd say the church can blow me but I'n not a prepubescent boy so...
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
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http://www.philly.com/philly/news/c...awsuit-city-dhs-foster-children-20180518.html



Does it make sense to discriminate against Catholic Social Services for its position on same-sex couples with so many children needing placement?

What is a higher priority? How many children are left without foster homes as a result?

Catholic Social Services needs to pull its collective head out of its collective ass. The goal is to serve children, NOT morally judge couples who meet all other requirements for caring for said children.

This thread also further confirms how little you the OP care about actual children.
 
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Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
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You mean as long as they are placed with the type of parents you approve of right? How many good homes are these kids being shut out of by banning gay adoption when there is nothing that shows it to be any more detrimental than an opposite sex couple? Does it make sense that loving people aren't allowed to adopt these kids and get them out of the situations they are in?

CSS is not the only organization that does this. Gay couples aren't precluded from foster care simply by the fact that CSS exists.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,978
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Does it make sense to discriminate against Catholic Social Services for its position on same-sex couples with so many children needing placement?

What is a higher priority? How many children are left without foster homes as a result?
You should be asking why the CSS is discriminating against same-sex couples instead.
If what they really cared was the well-being of children, then it shouldn't matter whether the parents are heterosexual or not.

It is good that programs like that exist, but they shouldn't be discriminatory about who they serve.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
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Catholic Social Services needs to pull its collective head out of its collective ass. The goal is to serve children, NOT morally judge couples who meet all other requirements for caring for said children.

If the city's goal was to serve children, then CSS would never have been kicked out in the first place.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
28,539
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If the city's goal was to serve children, then CSS would never have been kicked out in the first place.

Again if the goal of CSS is to serve children they should be following the city's requirements to participate in that activity. The goal of CSS should be to maximize services to children. But it sounds like they only want to help children if they can find the "correct" people to do so. CSS is at fault here.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
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You should be asking why the CSS is discriminating against same-sex couples instead.

Assumedly for the same reason it opposes same sex-marriage, and homosexual activity in general. It detaches sex from its procreative purpose, and "it does not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity" to cite wikipedia.

If what they really cared was the well-being of children, then it shouldn't matter whether the parents are heterosexual or not.

To them, it does matter. Their position is that homosexual activity is an unfavorable environment for children.

It is good that programs like that exist, but they shouldn't be discriminatory about who they serve.

Within reason. Should the same logic apply to transgender couples?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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http://www.philly.com/philly/news/c...awsuit-city-dhs-foster-children-20180518.html
Does it make sense to discriminate against Catholic Social Services for its position on same-sex couples with so many children needing placement?
Yes, it does. The city is a government, it cannot discriminate on basis of sexual orientation, or allow its agents to do so.
What is a higher priority? How many children are left without foster homes as a result?
Placing kids in foster homes is a higher priority than Catholic homophobia, for sure.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
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If the city's goal was to serve children, then CSS would never have been kicked out in the first place.
I agree with you to a certain extent, but CSS really need to take a hard look at whether their policy is also hurting some children and/or delaying placements.
 
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thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
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Assumedly for the same reason it opposes same sex-marriage, and homosexual activity in general. It detaches sex from its procreative purpose, and "it does not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity" to cite wikipedia.
I know the reasons they give, but are those reasons empirically detrimental to a child's upbringing? If they are not, they should really rethink that policy, but maybe that is not up for debate in their eyes. That's what I was getting at.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
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CSS is not the only organization that does this. Gay couples aren't precluded from foster care simply by the fact that CSS exists.
By that logic, CSS not being contracted doesn't prevent straight couples from foster care either. They too can go through other channels that don't discriminate while taking city money.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
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I agree with you to a certain extent, but CSS really need to take a hard look at whether their policy is also hurting some children and/or delaying placements.

How many have been hurt by CSS's refusal to place with same sex couples, versus how many are hurt by removing CSS from the equation entirely?

Furthermore, of the same sex couples that CSS won't serve, how many went to other organizations that had no such reservations?
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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http://www.philly.com/philly/news/c...awsuit-city-dhs-foster-children-20180518.html



Does it make sense to discriminate against Catholic Social Services for its position on same-sex couples with so many children needing placement?

What is a higher priority? How many children are left without foster homes as a result?

wow, it's like your questions answer themselves! Don't you think that children are going without homes because there are plenty of same-sex homes willing to take them, if not for a bronze-aged, mystical organization, led by a cavalry of pedophile, closeted homosexual rapists, refusing to allow it? What irony!

Not all catholics--I do like a lot of catholics, but it's not like you guys have a brilliant history of being able to claim the moral authority in this, lol.

Isn't it reasonable to wonder if the Archdiocese of Philadelphia's true concern here is that placing foster kids in loving homes will remove their own rotating stock of fresh victims? Cynical, I know, but I actually pay attention to the news, you know?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
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How many have been hurt by CSS's refusal to place with same sex couples, versus how many are hurt by removing CSS from the equation entirely?
Furthermore, of the same sex couples that CSS won't serve, how many went to other organizations that had no such reservations?

You just said that CSS is not the only organization that places kids in foster care. So with them kicked off the dole for discriminating, other organizations that don't discriminate can fill the void. If someone wants to adopt or foster kids, they will just go through other organizations.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
86,701
52,515
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How many have been hurt by CSS's refusal to place with same sex couples, versus how many are hurt by removing CSS from the equation entirely?

Furthermore, of the same sex couples that CSS won't serve, how many went to other organizations that had no such reservations?

If the goal of CSS was to help as many children as possible they wouldn’t discriminate. The city has a blind standard that does not involve religion at all and applies equally to all people serving the city. If someone’s religion said they would not place children with black people no one would argue that should be permitted.

As for whether CSS will win or not they very well could because of the absolutely disastrous Hobby Lobby ruling where SCOTUS said religious groups could effectively opt out of generally applicable laws they don’t like. Quite possibly the stupidest ruling since Plessy v. Ferguson.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
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You mean as long as they are placed with the type of parents you approve of right? How many good homes are these kids being shut out of by banning gay adoption when there is nothing that shows it to be any more detrimental than an opposite sex couple? Does it make sense that loving people aren't allowed to adopt these kids and get them out of the situations they are in?

I'd say the church can blow me but I'n not a prepubescent boy so...
Apparently, the word from the pope hasn't gotten down to the parishes yet.

‘God Made You This Way,’ Pope Is Said to Have Told Gay Man
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/21/world/europe/pope-francis-gays-god-made-you-this-way-.html
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
28,539
28,192
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Assumedly for the same reason it opposes same sex-marriage, and homosexual activity in general. It detaches sex from its procreative purpose, and "it does not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity" to cite wikipedia.
To them, it does matter. Their position is that homosexual activity is an unfavorable environment for children.
Within reason. Should the same logic apply to transgender couples?

Look I know this is very difficult for you to understand. The goal is to find loving families who will take care of foster kids, who are willing to put the hard work into helping kids who frequently have many issues that exist because of the reasons they are in the system in first place. Those families can be straight, gay, transgendered, pan sexual, mixed race, same race, mixed religion, same religion and many different combinations. ANY child service agency that chooses to reject otherwise qualified foster parents because of bigotry isn't really interested in serving children as its primary mission.

FYI My sister and her husband adopted 2 children they fostered in Kansas. If CSS functions at all like the Catholic based services in Kansas it must be an absolute shit show. They flat out refused to investigate abuse allegations when the kids were sent to visit their mother. Also in Kansas they just passed a law explicitly permitting the kind of discrimination that has CSS in trouble in this story. BTW almost all the of agencies used in Kansas are faith based. So in a state where there is already a shortage of families to take kids the pool has been reduced further.

But hey you're cool with it. The fight is all about getting that fetus born, after that point fuck'em.

Again this thread proves how you don't give a shit about actual live kids.
 
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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
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No, they want the government money, without the government non-discrimination. Because they are Catholics, you know, the new state religion pushed by the clerics on our SCOTUS.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
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If the goal of CSS was to help as many children as possible they wouldn’t discriminate. The city has a blind standard that does not involve religion at all and applies equally to all people serving the city. If someone’s religion said they would not place children with black people no one would argue that should be permitted.

Blind indeed. If I wanted to put someone I don't like out of business, I'd adopt such a standard, and certainly call it blind.

As for whether CSS will win or not they very well could because of the absolutely disastrous Hobby Lobby ruling where SCOTUS said religious groups could effectively opt out of generally applicable laws they don’t like. Quite possibly the stupidest ruling since Plessy v. Ferguson.

Your objection is with RFRA, not strictly the Hobby Lobby decision. All the SCOTUS did was apply that law.

It's odd that the RFRA was introduced by democrats and passed nearly unanimously through both chambers in which democrats held the majority. And signed by a Democrat president. Things change on a dime I guess.

Freedom of religion is all well and good until it actually has some teeth. Then it's just bigotry.
 
Jan 25, 2011
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Blind indeed. If I wanted to put someone I don't like out of business, I'd adopt such a standard, and certainly call it blind.



Your objection is with RFRA, not strictly the Hobby Lobby decision. All the SCOTUS did was apply that law.

It's odd that the RFRA was introduced by democrats and passed nearly unanimously through both chambers in which democrats held the majority. And signed by a Democrat president. Things change on a dime I guess.
And who is choosing to use the RFRA as cover for their discrimination again?

Thanks for coming out.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
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Blind indeed. If I wanted to put someone I don't like out of business, I'd adopt such a standard, and certainly call it blind.



Your objection is with RFRA, not strictly the Hobby Lobby decision. All the SCOTUS did was apply that law.

It's odd that the RFRA was introduced by democrats and passed nearly unanimously through both chambers in which democrats held the majority. And signed by a Democrat president. Things change on a dime I guess.

Freedom of religion is all well and good until it actually has some teeth. Then it's just bigotry.

It's not enough for Catholics that their bigotry be tolerated, now they want it subsidized by the state too.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,933
11,417
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No, they want the government money, without the government non-discrimination. Because they are Catholics, you know, the new state religion pushed by the clerics on our SCOTUS.
Hell. they've taken over our major hospital and medical clinics in our area. Just waiting for one of them to deny an abortion.