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Catholic leadership is on a roll

Binarycow

Golden Member
Jan 10, 2010
1,239
2
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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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The Bible says that those who cannot control their desires should marry, lest they fall into sin. It also says it is an evil doctrine to forbid marriage.
 

Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
4,355
0
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The Bible says that those who cannot control their desires should marry, lest they fall into sin. It also says it is an evil doctrine to forbid marriage.
Hmm, interesting, is that in the Old testament?

Cuz i'm pretty sure Jesus and Paul both promote celibacy.

Anyways, in regards to the article, it's talking about about a priests opinion, not what the Church as a whole feels or expresses. I personally don't agree or like the statement.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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The new testament. Paul talks about it, he says it is better to never marry and devote all your time to the church, but only if you can control your desires. If you cannot, you should marry. Paul also says it is a terrible sin to forbid marriage (as that would cause the people who cannot control their desires to fall into sin). He lumps it in with murder, theft, adultery, etc.

The Catholic Church says they do not forbid marriage. A priest can stop being a priest and get married at any time...
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,311
8
81
John Stewart said it best: “You are confusing your war on religion with not getting everything you want.”

Fuck the Catholic Church. Morally bankrupt worthless organization.
 

Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
4,355
0
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The new testament. Paul talks about it, he says it is better to never marry and devote all your time to the church, but only if you can control your desires. If you cannot, you should marry. Paul also says it is a terrible sin to forbid marriage (as that would cause the people who cannot control their desires to fall into sin). He lumps it in with murder, theft, adultery, etc.

The Catholic Church says they do not forbid marriage. A priest can stop being a priest and get married at any time...
In addition to what you just said the Catholic Church only forbids marriage in the Latin or Western Rite, the Eastern Rites are free to marry.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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In addition to what you just said the Catholic Church only forbids marriage in the Latin or Western Rite, the Eastern Rites are free to marry.
Is the Eastern Rite still part of the Catholic Church? I thought they formed their own.

EDIT: Not up to speed on what is and is not Catholic - I thought following The Pope meant Catholic.
 

Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
4,355
0
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Is the Eastern Rite still part of the Catholic Church? I thought they formed their own.

EDIT: Not up to speed on what is and is not Catholic - I thought following The Pope meant Catholic.
You're thinking of Greek Orthodox, they do not hold the belief that the Bishop of Rome, or Pope, is the "head" of all the other bishops.

All Rites that submit authority to Rome are a part of the Roman Catholic Church pretty much. Greek Orthodox are still Catholic, they just don't submit to Rome.
 
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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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Interesting, I bet Rome does not consider them Catholics. :) Thanks, learned something today.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,353
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I'm confused: is anything the guy said incorrect, or is he simply a bigot because he used the word "Hitler"? It might be strong language, but the policy is inherently fascist:
fascism
often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality &#8212; J. W. Aldridge>
This policy certainly fits in that definition quite comfortably, in which case pointing it out is factually correct. Feel free to argue that the policy is not fascist if that's your opinion, but I think you'll have a hard time.
 

Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
4,355
0
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Interesting, I bet Rome does not consider them Catholics. :) Thanks, learned something today.
No problem. As far as I understand as a Western Rite Catholic, the Greek Orthodox is fully Catholic and we fully acknowledge their apostolic lineage. However because they do not agree to papal authority they are not in communion with the Roman Church.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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This policy certainly fits in that definition quite comfortably, in which case pointing it out is factually correct. Feel free to argue that the policy is not fascist if that's your opinion, but I think you'll have a hard time.
The policy is not fascist and it is ludicrous to say so. It is simply saying that in order for a company to be considered a legitimate insurance agency, they need to provide certain services. Is the FDA a fascist organization because they demand certain standards for food or drugs sold in this country? Is the patent office fascist because they won't let me patent my idea for an iPod that is identical to Apple's? This bishop is basically saying that Obama wants to shut down churches across America and that is so completely, laughably ignorant that it's not even worth responding to.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,840
3,636
126
Some of my favorite people, including most of my family, are Catholic by upbringing and they are my favorite people because their hearts were affected by Jesus. I know most of you folk don't know anything much less the true meaning of religion, but it's the fact that most folk are machines and have never been awakened by the inner truth hidden there that's the problem, that they destroy the real intent because of fear and ego. The church, all churches, are nothing but cargo cults. The real takeoffs and landings are invisible.

There used to be a janitor at a Catholic church I used to walk by every day and I got to know him, one of the most powerful beings I've ever met. He told me his job was to keep the priests from falling asleep. Hehehehehehe! You could feel God coming out of his skin. He was an old old man when I knew him and used to squirt the kids with his garden hose as they came to school.
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
8,640
7
81
Some of my favorite people, including most of my family, are Catholic by upbringing and they are my favorite people because their hearts were affected by Jesus. I know most of you folk don't know anything much less the true meaning of religion, but it's the fact that most folk are machines and have never been awakened by the inner truth hidden there that's the problem, that they destroy the real intent because of fear and ego. The church, all churches, are nothing but cargo cults. The real takeoffs and landings are invisible.

There used to be a janitor at a Catholic church I used to walk by every day and I got to know him, one of the most powerful beings I've ever met. He told me his job was to keep the priests from falling asleep. Hehehehehehe! You could feel God coming out of his skin. He was an old old man when I knew him and used to squirt the kids with his garden hose as they came to school.
Yep...still waiting on my decoder ring...

And why do so many of you care what is said by an organization you don't believe in or adhere to?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
71,490
21,476
136
I'm confused: is anything the guy said incorrect, or is he simply a bigot because he used the word "Hitler"? It might be strong language, but the policy is inherently fascist:

This policy certainly fits in that definition quite comfortably, in which case pointing it out is factually correct. Feel free to argue that the policy is not fascist if that's your opinion, but I think you'll have a hard time.
Again you prove how right your signature is, totally without irony.

The US government is not autocratic, Obama is not dictatorial, there is no forcible suppression of opposition, and having health plans give free contraception to women in religious affiliated businesses is 'severe economic and social regimentation under no sane person's definition.

Do you actually believe this stuff you write? If so, I recommend immediate psychiatric evaluation as you appear to be suffering from severe hallucinations and/or delusions.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
4,238
1,605
136
Hehehehehehe! You could feel God coming out of his skin. He was an old old man when I knew him and used to squirt the kids with his garden hose as they came to school.
I hope this is not some sneaky, backhanded sexual innuendo here because it certainly can be misread that way :)

I'm confused: is anything the guy said incorrect, or is he simply a bigot because he used the word "Hitler"? It might be strong language, but the policy is inherently fascist:

This policy certainly fits in that definition quite comfortably, in which case pointing it out is factually correct. Feel free to argue that the policy is not fascist if that's your opinion, but I think you'll have a hard time.
No not exactly. Fascism has this general idea that there is essentially one type of person they want to exist in their society and everything is done to exalt that type of person and get rid of the rest. The US is very much the opposite. It honestly shows low level education to assume a multiculturist like obama (growing up in the phillipines, hawaii, the US, having parents of multiple ethnicities and being a minority, non elitist in the country he is essentially ruling) could be a fascist.
 
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alzan

Diamond Member
May 21, 2003
3,861
2
0
A number of priests and members of the Catholic Church certainly seem to be intent on driving the church further towards irrelevancy by taking this hard line stance on the topic of health care. They seem to be catering to the principles of the Tea Party, as well as anyone who calls themselves Christian and are suspicious of any government action which seems even remotely religious in nature.

Although this is just my opinion and perhaps a little simplistic; the governments stance seems to be in keeping as close to the meaning of the 1st Amendment as possible.

alzan
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,353
1
81
The policy is not fascist and it is ludicrous to say so. It is simply saying that in order for a company to be considered a legitimate insurance agency, they need to provide certain services. Is the FDA a fascist organization because they demand certain standards for food or drugs sold in this country? Is the patent office fascist because they won't let me patent my idea for an iPod that is identical to Apple's? This bishop is basically saying that Obama wants to shut down churches across America and that is so completely, laughably ignorant that it's not even worth responding to.
I notice you conveniently neglected to mention the definition of fascism while calling the policy ludicrously non-fascist. That's convenient. The policy is very much based on "a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control." What business is it of the federal government whether I buy an insurance policy with contraceptive coverage? Can you offer any logical justification for such a stipulation that does not rely on a tendency towards strong autocratic or dictatorial control? You are putting words in the bishop's mouth - words put there originally by the author of the article. Maybe you should read what he actually said rather than relying on hearsay.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,353
1
81
No not exactly. Fascism has this general idea that there is essentially one type of person they want to exist in their society and everything is done to exalt that type of person and get rid of the rest. The US is very much the opposite. It honestly shows low level education to assume a multiculturist like obama (growing up in the phillipines, hawaii, the US, having parents of multiple ethnicities and being a minority, non elitist in the country he is essentially ruling) could be a fascist.
I included the definition of fascism. It's not my problem if your conception of it disagrees with the reality of it. It's almost as laughable that you claim "low level education" as the cause of my stance. The only possible way you are more educated than myself is if you have multiple doctoral degrees, which I'll doubt based on your inability to capitalize proper nouns.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
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No problem. As far as I understand as a Western Rite Catholic, the Greek Orthodox is fully Catholic and we fully acknowledge their apostolic lineage. However because they do not agree to papal authority they are not in communion with the Roman Church.
Good info, thanks!
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
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A number of priests and members of the Catholic Church certainly seem to be intent on driving the church further towards irrelevancy by taking this hard line stance on the topic of health care.
No religion should give up their core moral views because others do not like them. I completely disagree with their view on birth control, but I applaud them sticking to their guns on it.
 

alzan

Diamond Member
May 21, 2003
3,861
2
0
No religion should give up their core moral views because others do not like them. I completely disagree with their view on birth control, but I applaud them sticking to their guns on it.
They haven't been asked to give up their core moral views. Catholics, or any other sect that objects to birth control, are not being forced to use or buy it. The non-religious institutions that they run and that accept federal funding, have to provide health-care insurance that contains certain standards of care, one of which is contraception/birth control.

alzan
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
11,845
1,166
126
No religion should give up their core moral views because others do not like them. I completely disagree with their view on birth control, but I applaud them sticking to their guns on it.
I've got no problem with that, but I have a HUGE problem with these de facto political entities having their income exempted as charities. Our taxes are effectively subsidizing their political messages and I don't like that one bit-nor is it the least bit fair.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,353
1
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I've got no problem with that, but I have a HUGE problem with these de facto political entities having their income exempted as charities. Our taxes are effectively subsidizing their political messages and I don't like that one bit-nor is it the least bit fair.
Government is impinging on personal freedoms and you want to penalize entities that stand up to said government by forcing them to subsidize that infringement. Not taxing someone is not a subsidy. We are not the property of our government. It's scary how many people here seem to think that we are (or, scarier still, should be) subjects rather than citizens.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
4,238
1,605
136
Government is impinging on personal freedoms and you want to penalize entities that stand up to said government by forcing them to subsidize that infringement. Not taxing someone is not a subsidy. We are not the property of our government. It's scary how many people here seem to think that we are (or, scarier still, should be) subjects rather than citizens.
Government may at times impinge on freedoms, but it doesn't mean that everyone who claims impingement is actually being abused.

Not taxing someone who earns income is indeed a subsidy. How can it not be?
 

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