catch-22

[EmperorNero]

when someone says something is a "catch-22," what does that mean? and how would it be used in a sentence?

 

[somethingwitty]

catch-22 essentially means you're damned if you do, you're damned if you dont..to put it better, it's kinda like an infinite loop. it was original created in a book called "catch-22" by joseph heller (a great book), where the main character wanted to get out of WWII because he didnt want to kill people, but to do so, he had to shoot down 5 enemy planes to earn retirement.

 

[20_MuleTeam_Borax]

Catch 22 is also a punk/ska band on Victory records.

 

[Ranger X]

You hit the spot. Either way, you're f#$)ed essentially.

 

[Namuna]

Another Catch-22 example...

The DVD market before it got hot.

If you asked the Movie Studios why they weren't making movies available on DVD, they said because Manufacturers weren't making many DVD players...

If you asked Manufacturers why they weren't making DVD players, they said because there aren't any DVD movies available yet.

 

[vi edit]

AKA the double edged sword

 

[Pretender]

The best explanation I could give is that it's an infinate, self-supporting loop.

An example:
You require money to get a good suit.
You require a good suit to get a job.
You require a job to get money.

If you have none of the above, you are essentially fscked, or in a catch-22.

 

[kool g]

NO NO NO!! Did you read Catch 22? The main character is a bomber pilot who goes on missions near Italy. I don't belive he EVER shoots down enemy planes and he certainly does not have to shoot down five before he gets leave. He has to complete a certain number of missions before he gets dismissed, but the commander keeps raising that number so no one can get out.

Anyway, the "Catch 22" of Catch 22 was this: In order to be dismissed from the military they must determine you to be insane. BUT TO FIGHT in the horror of the war you'd also have to be insane. The definition of "Catch 22" has evolved over the years though and now means something different. A Catch 22 is a series of events which depend on each other and create infinite loops under certain conditions. For example:

To get into the debates, Ralph Nader needs 15% of the vote.
To get 15% of the vote, Nader needs to be let into the debates. And:

To get a computer job, you need experience in the computer industry.
To get experience in the computer industry, you need a computer job.

Understand?

 

[Pennstate]

It's like this election. Bush or GOre, it's a Catch-22.

 

[Zenmervolt]

"Cathc-22 stated that concern for one's own safety in the face of dangers that are real and immediate is the process of a rational mind." Direct quote from Joseph Heller's book Catch-22, I have forgotten the page number. The following is a paraphrase of Yossarian's (the main character) observation of how Catch-22 worked in practice.

Catch-22: If you are insane you will be released from combat, all you have to do is ask. If you ask, however, it proves that you are sane and you have to fly more missions. If you fly more missions you are insane and do not have to, if you don't want to fly more missions you are sane and have to fly them.

Later in the book, Catch-22 becomes boiled down to "we have the right to do anything you cannot stop us from doing." (Another direct quote from Heller, again I have forgotten the page.) This last definition is kind of applicable in this election, don't you think?

Aaron Meyer

 

[Champo41]

You need a job for money
You need a car for your job
You need gas for your car
You need money to pay for gas

 

[somethingwitty]

kool g, the sad thing is, i did read the book. I think my terrible summary had to do with lack of sleep-see the thread about 10hrs of sleep the last 3 nights...

anyways, you're right. As i recall, the plot was something like: he has to complete a certain amount of missions to get out but hates completing them because of the killing. he then tries to fake insanity, but there's a catch that if he's insane he's perfectly fit to fight, b/c only insane people fight wars. something like that. I know i really enjoyed the book, but now i cant remember the story. oh well, I know it was good enough to be worth reading again.