Catalytic Converter is dead

[Gamingphreek]

1995 Toyota Tacoma SX 4x4 Regular Cab (2.7L I4)

My check engine light has been randomly turning on and off for a while- mostly spending time on. Unfortunately I don't have an ODB I reader, so I had to pay $92 at the dealer just for a damn look.

The only thing without a reader that I could come up with that would trigger the light on and off is O2 sensors. Well, as it turns out, my catalytic converter is dead. Since the light has been on for about 1500 miles, I'm thinking that it is probably kind of clogged right now.

The dealer, SOMEHOW, quoted me $1200!!??! I was like, ummmm NO. Since it is a Toyota Tacoma, the Cats are bolt on to the exhaust manifold. Therefore, I shouldn't have a problem changing it. A quick look shows me that a new one will be ~$120- which then begs the question- What will the impact be?

I know a catalytic converter regulates exhaust emissions-- but there are no emissions tests in my county so the idea of taking it completely off has crossed my mind.

Keeping in mind that the current one that is completely dead and may be slightly clogged up:
- If I take the Cat off and run the exhaust manifold straight to the muffler, can I expect a noticeable increase in performance and/or fuel mileage.

-If I install a brand new catalytic converter, can I expect either of the above given the state of my old one? Could I possibly expect worse of either?

-Is there a difference in brand names/quality. As in, should I just look at Autopartswarehouse or should I actually try and find a specific brand? Does build quality affect anything?

-Kevin

Edit: Can anyone suggest random parts to inspect and possibly swap out when tuning up a car?

 

[Pliablemoose]

test pipe

 

[jagec]

Don't do it...$120 is dirt cheap considering what an ingenious device it is, and how much crap it keeps out of the atmosphere. Do you really want to be spewing carbon monoxide everywhere you go?

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: jagec
Don't do it...$120 is dirt cheap considering what an ingenious device it is, and how much crap it keeps out of the atmosphere. Do you really want to be spewing carbon monoxide everywhere you go?

E.P.A. Says Catalytic Converter Is Growing Cause of Global Warming

:shocked:

 

[Pacfanweb]

Todays' EFI runs pretty clean without the cats. As mentioned before, Cats actually hurt more than they help.

You, and everyone else, need to remember that when you change one thing (particularly on an older car) you may well affect several others.
So if your cat is bad and you replace it, you may well have something else go later as a result....O2 sensors, EGR...you name it. Or maybe not.....repairing cars is NOT an exact "this is what's wrong, end of story" science, not at all. Can't tell you how many cars I've seen worked on or personally repaired that had something else in the system fail a week later that there was no way to predict at the time of the original repair......but try telling the customer that.

 

[b3av3r]

Just a FYI you can take your car to autozone and they will scan all of your codes for free

 

[Gamingphreek]

Autozone doesn't do OBD I they only do OBD II .. I asked.

So everyone so far is split. Can anyone answer my questions directly (I appreciate the advice and I would love even more of it, but those main points are what concern me the most)?

-Kevin

 

[Sniper82]

Originally posted by: b3av3r
Just a FYI you can take your car to autozone and they will scan all of your codes for free

Yep was driving my geo past Advanced one day and my check engine light came on. Turned around and went back. You could have bought a reader at Wal-Mart for $100.

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Autozone doesn't do OBD I they only do OBD II .. I asked.

So everyone so far is split. Can anyone answer my questions directly (I appreciate the advice and I would love even more of it, but those main points are what concern me the most)?

-Kevin

Didn't know that

 

[Sniper82]

dp

 

[thedarkwolf]

Step 1. Take old cat off
Step 2. Hammer a pipe through cat and knock all the crap out of it. Wear a mask for that.
Step 3. Put old cat back on

You will probably notice a difference in power but more from your old cat being clogged and choking the engine down. A new cat would probably show the same difference. If you had a turbo engine the no cat vs cat difference would a a lot more but on a normally aspirated engine the difference is pretty small. When you do go to take off the old one PB Blaster the hell out of the bolts the day before and you may even want to go pick up a propane torch. Those bolts are bitch and a half.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
Step 1. Take old cat off
Step 2. Hammer a pipe through cat and knock all the crap out of it. Wear a mask for that.
Step 3. Put old cat back on

You will probably notice a difference in power but more from your old cat being clogged and choking the engine down. A new cat would probably show the same difference. If you had a turbo engine the no cat vs cat difference would a a lot more but on a normally aspirated engine the difference is pretty small. When you do go to take off the old one PB Blaster the hell out of the bolts the day before and you may even want to go pick up a propane torch. Those bolts are bitch and a half.

Well the mechanic said the old cat was completely dead- not just dying or anything COMPLETELY dead. So hammering it out probably isn't an option.

Thats kind of what I thought with regards to performance.

I assume when I take it off, after soaking it with WD-40 or something, I would want to use a line wrench or vice-grips so I don't strip the nuts?

-Kevin

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek


Keeping in mind that the current one that is completely dead and may be slightly clogged up:
- If I take the Cat off and run the exhaust manifold straight to the muffler, can I expect a noticeable increase in performance and/or fuel mileage.

-If I install a brand new catalytic converter, can I expect either of the above given the state of my old one? Could I possibly expect worse of either?

-Is there a difference in brand names/quality. As in, should I just look at Autopartswarehouse or should I actually try and find a specific brand? Does build quality affect anything?

-Kevin

1. Maybe. Depends on whether your current cat is stopped up or just bad. You would be removing a restriction regardless....whether this translates to the seat of your pants isn't clear....I'd say you could probably feel a difference. Not sure about the fuel mileage....I'd say it wouldn't change much on an OBDI.

2. I'm sure some are better than others, but aftermarket is a crapshoot. Nobody can really give any specific advice on this one other than the factory replacement would be better than anything else.

A parts store can only read the codes. They cannot, repeat CANNOT diagnose the problem simply by the code, and neither can anyone else. You do not pay the diag fee at the dealership just for them to tell you what the code is. All the code does tell the tech basically what page to turn to in the diagnostic manual. The manual will have the pinpoint tests to find out what's the actual problem.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
Step 1. Take old cat off
Step 2. Hammer a pipe through cat and knock all the crap out of it. Wear a mask for that.
Step 3. Put old cat back on

You will probably notice a difference in power but more from your old cat being clogged and choking the engine down. A new cat would probably show the same difference. If you had a turbo engine the no cat vs cat difference would a a lot more but on a normally aspirated engine the difference is pretty small. When you do go to take off the old one PB Blaster the hell out of the bolts the day before and you may even want to go pick up a propane torch. Those bolts are bitch and a half.

Well the mechanic said the old cat was completely dead- not just dying or anything COMPLETELY dead. So hammering it out probably isn't an option.

Thats kind of what I thought with regards to performance.

I assume when I take it off, after soaking it with WD-40 or something, I would want to use a line wrench or vice-grips so I don't strip the nuts?

-Kevin

Soak it with some PB Blaster, Deep Creep, or the like. I doubt you can get Vise-Grips in there, so use a quality socket.
Then pray. It's even money on an old car whether bolts/nuts will come out of a manifold.

Gutting the cat has nothing to do with whether the cat is operative or not. You can still do it on yours.

 

[Gamingphreek]

So basically by gutting the cat, I am just making it completely useless but preventing it from stopping up again (Essentially removing the innards)?

I seriously hope the bolts come off- I have no experience welding (Unfortunately) and therefore would hate to strip the last one and then have to take a blow torch and cut the manifold off (Thereby making it so I have to weld a new one on).

I've driven about 1500 miles with the light on-- do you think there is a strong possibility this can wait- or do you think its a time-bomb until the cat completely obstructs the exhaust (rendering my car unusable)?

-Kevin

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
So basically by gutting the cat, I am just making it completely useless but preventing it from stopping up again (Essentially removing the innards)?

I seriously hope the bolts come off- I have no experience welding (Unfortunately) and therefore would hate to strip the last one and then have to take a blow torch and cut the manifold off (Thereby making it so I have to weld a new one on).

I've driven about 1500 miles with the light on-- do you think there is a strong possibility this can wait- or do you think its a time-bomb until the cat completely obstructs the exhaust (rendering my car unusable)?

-Kevin

Basically, you are making the cat just another piece of exhaust pipe, with a cavity in it. But it can't stop up again. You'd be better off just getting a test tube to put in place of it, though.

Personally, if the car seems to be running okay, I'd just drive it until it actually has a runnign problem. No harm in doing that.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
- If I take the Cat off and run the exhaust manifold straight to the muffler, can I expect a noticeable increase in performance and/or fuel mileage.

Nothing significant, the catalytic converter is typically not the bottleneck in stock exhausts. Not only that, but this is illegal and is a Federal crime. In some states, a missing catalytic converter will cause you to fail smog inspection (visual inspection).

Theoretically though, if you were to disregard the legality, removing the catalytic converter would not be harmful and could only be beneficial from a mechanical standpoint. Also, as a purely scientific interest and not to be construed as a recommendation, a modern car in good tune should still easily pass emissions testing at the tailpipe and would probably never get caught if the state didn't do visual inspections.

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
-If I install a brand new catalytic converter, can I expect either of the above given the state of my old one? Could I possibly expect worse of either?

If the old one was clogged, then you'll see better mileage because you're no longer having massive restriction, but if you don't notice any loss in performance right now, then it's not clogged enough for there to be much difference at all.

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
-Is there a difference in brand names/quality. As in, should I just look at Autopartswarehouse or should I actually try and find a specific brand? Does build quality affect anything?

-Kevin

A catalytic converter contains many exotic substances, including platinum. $120 for a catalytic converter sounds a little fishy to me, but I've never heard of problems resulting from any aftermarket catalytic converter.

ZV

 

[Gamingphreek]

Thank you so much for all the responses.

Like I said I wouldn't be illegal in my county (Correct me if I am wrong) because emissions tests are not required.

I actually got my $92 refunded with a little arguing so I should be able to spring for a new Cat as opposed to going with a test pipe.

Replacing it is as easy as it sounds correct? With my model they are bolt on Cat converters- so it is as easy (or possibly as hard) as removing the bolts, taking the old one off, and putting the new one on?

-Kevin

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Thank you so much for all the responses.

Like I said I wouldn't be illegal in my county (Correct me if I am wrong) because emissions tests are not required.

I actually got my $92 refunded with a little arguing so I should be able to spring for a new Cat as opposed to going with a test pipe.

Replacing it is as easy as it sounds correct? With my model they are bolt on Cat converters- so it is as easy (or possibly as hard) as removing the bolts, taking the old one off, and putting the new one on?

-Kevin

You could probably still be ticketed for not having a cat, but getting caught is fairly unlikely.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Thank you so much for all the responses.

Like I said I wouldn't be illegal in my county (Correct me if I am wrong) because emissions tests are not required.

I actually got my $92 refunded with a little arguing so I should be able to spring for a new Cat as opposed to going with a test pipe.

Replacing it is as easy as it sounds correct? With my model they are bolt on Cat converters- so it is as easy (or possibly as hard) as removing the bolts, taking the old one off, and putting the new one on?

-Kevin

You could probably still be ticketed for not having a cat, but getting caught is fairly unlikely.

Well I don't want to do anything against the law-- I'll just get a new one. I take pride in the way my car runs, I don't want anything makeshift or half-a**ed.

Since brands are pretty much irrelevant should I just go to advance or something and see how much they are running?

-Kevin

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Thank you so much for all the responses.

Like I said I wouldn't be illegal in my county (Correct me if I am wrong) because emissions tests are not required.

You are wrong. It is a Federal crime to remove a functioning catalytic converter from an automobile, and it is a Federal crime not to replace a defective catalytic converter if it has been removed. This applies whether or not your area has emissions testing.

However, you are extremely unlikely to be caught if your area doesn't test even though it's still illegal. In fact, I know several people with 951s like mine who have removed the catalytic converter to help the turbo spool faster, the cars still pass tailpipe testing and the area I'm in does not have visual inspection. However, if they were somehow caught, they would face a very large fine.

ZV

 

[Gamingphreek]

I understand-- I didn't know that it was required (Though if someone really wanted to get around, wouldn't gutting the Cat accomplish the same thing?).

Irregardless, I'm going to replace the Cat. Advance has one for, somehow, $97 that is a direct fit. Provided I can get the bolts off, shouldn't take me more than 30 mins I would guess. While I'm monkeying around with the car, I'm going to see if some friends want to come over and help me do a tune up (Remove Intake Manifold, replace gasket, Carbon Clean Throttle Body, perhaps replace PCV valve as well as the fuel filter). I want her in tip top shape for the 3.5 hour trip back to Virginia Tech

Can anyone think of anything else I may want to check/replace that is relatively inexpensive? (The car is in amazing shape and more than likely won't need much)

-Kevin

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Thank you so much for all the responses.

Like I said I wouldn't be illegal in my county (Correct me if I am wrong) because emissions tests are not required.

You are wrong. It is a Federal crime to remove a functioning catalytic converter from an automobile, and it is a Federal crime not to replace a defective catalytic converter if it has been removed. This applies whether or not your area has emissions testing.

However, you are extremely unlikely to be caught if your area doesn't test even though it's still illegal. In fact, I know several people with 951s like mine who have removed the catalytic converter to help the turbo spool faster, the cars still pass tailpipe testing and the area I'm in does not have visual inspection. However, if they were somehow caught, they would face a very large fine.

ZV

True all. I'll reiterate: It's not legal ANYWHERE in the USA to remove any of the emissions equipment from your car.
Lots of people think it's okay if you live in a state/county that doesn't have emissions inspections.....it's not. They might not check your emissions, but they ARE supposed to verify that all the proper equipment is on the car and not damaged.

Now, whether they actually DO that or not is another story. Here in NC, we have emissions inspections for OBDII cars (96-up), and Safety-only for 95-older. All the emissions inspection amounts to is a visual inspection and an OBDII scan. If no codes, it passes.

The safety inspection is supposed to check basic stuff....tire tread, e-brake functionality, headlights, wipers, turn signals.....AND a visual check of all the smog equipment.
But hardly anyone does that visual check. They check the lights and stuff and let it go.

So as ZV said, while it is technically illegal to ever remove your catastrophic converter, if you're in a safety-only county, chances are it won't be a problem.

 

[Gamingphreek]

I have been reading up on possible components to tune up and I recently read about the mass airflow sensor sometimes becoming clogged. I know it is near the Air Filter, and I would guess it is somewhere between there and the butterfly valve-- but is it hard to replace or clean? Anything to worry about? I need my car by Sunday (Running), no exceptions.

-Kevin

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
I have been reading up on possible components to tune up and I recently read about the mass airflow sensor sometimes becoming clogged. I know it is near the Air Filter, and I would guess it is somewhere between there and the butterfly valve-- but is it hard to replace or clean? Anything to worry about? I need my car by Sunday (Running), no exceptions.

-Kevin

You'd know if the MAF were clogged. The car would run very poorly. No need to mess with that if everything's running fine.

ZV

 

[Gamingphreek]

I checked the intake, PCV Valve, and MAF-- This car has 137,000 miles and I don't know if I have seen a car with 5,000 miles with that clean of an intake system. There is no scoring, no rust NOTHING-- the shiny brushed metal is staring right back at me- It looks brand new.

The spark plugs are weird though-- I don't quite know what to look at. I pull out from the top and a very long long tube comes out with a red cap at the end. Is the spark plug still down there and I will need multiple extensions for my socket wrench or what?

I can't find the fuel filter. From what I understand it should be on the drivers side directly beneath the seat-- scanning up and down the car I STILL can't find it. I'll have to look closer I guess.

I'm headed to advance to pick up the new Cat Converter and install it-- Can anyone think of anything else I might want to look at buying when I am there?

-Kevin