CAT6 how pin numbers in RJ-45 connecter used to carry Data

zillah2004

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Jul 2, 2012
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Hi Experts

I tried to search this before posting but I couldn't locate any explicit answer

http://www.google.com.au/#sclient=p...54,d.aGc&fp=6fd732ff44e5a170&biw=1920&bih=907

According to the quote below :
http://pcr-tech-sc.2302233.n4.nabbl...Twisted-Pair-Questions-Answers-td3891718.html
25. In regards to a CAT6 cable, what pin numbers in an RJ-45 connecter are used to carry data in a FastEthernet network ?
2 pairs (4 pins ) are used.

And according to the below link my understanding (I might be wrong) if we want to use gigabit rate we need to use 4 pairs (8 pins) if we need to use Megabit rate then we use only 2 pairs ( 4 pins)

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1404908
Are you intending on using gigabit ethernet devices in this network ? If so, you'll require ALL of the pairs in the cable for data leaving none spare for other uses.100 Mb uses two pairs
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110321115656AAMTumg
All 8 pins, apparently
Could you please some clarify that contradiction for me by referring me to an authenticated source ?

Thanks
 

imagoon

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Fast ethernet: 2 pairs
Gig ethernet :4 pairs

Category of the cable doesn't matter in pair usage.
 

ScottMac

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Regardless of the number of pairs "needed" ALL pair must be terminated in their proper position ... or the cable / data path is not in spec ...i.e., it's not "Cat{anything}"
 

Cabletek

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Regardless of the number of pairs "needed" ALL pair must be terminated in their proper position ... or the cable / data path is not in spec ...i.e., it's not "Cat{anything}"


This is confusing.The cable category of twisted pair wires is determined basically by the twists per inch. Terminated or unterminated they are still cat6 cables. The termination simply determines the use or functionality of the cables, RJ11/14/25 its phone, 45/48 data/Ethernet, and then the rest of the Registered Jack that are all rather specialized can be found here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_jack

Terminated wrong/different does not change the category of the cable in any way and in fact it is possible to terminate something "wrong" and still get use out of it, just not the intended use, I have seem rather custom punch downs for robotic control at the University of Florida displayed, over a decade ago with cat5 wires and sort of a straight b/bw/o/ow/g/gw/br/brw which is certainly not a typical ethernet punch down., but it was standard RJ45 cubes at the control module, the wires inside were soldered directly to a circuit board however.
 

ScottMac

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This is confusing.The cable category of twisted pair wires is determined basically by the twists per inch. Terminated or unterminated they are still cat6 cables. The termination simply determines the use or functionality of the cables, RJ11/14/25 its phone, 45/48 data/Ethernet, and then the rest of the Registered Jack that are all rather specialized can be found here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_jack

Terminated wrong/different does not change the category of the cable in any way and in fact it is possible to terminate something "wrong" and still get use out of it, just not the intended use, I have seem rather custom punch downs for robotic control at the University of Florida displayed, over a decade ago with cat5 wires and sort of a straight b/bw/o/ow/g/gw/br/brw which is certainly not a typical ethernet punch down., but it was standard RJ45 cubes at the control module, the wires inside were soldered directly to a circuit board however.

The the standard (eight conductors) cable is engineered to function in a "Structured Cabling" system, meaning it is nearly universal for any purpose when implemented properly (i.e., bend radius, pulling tension, bundling restraint ...) terminated properly, and with the use of adapters (i.e., video baseband, HDMI, 327- terminals, 5250 terminals, RS-232, security functions ...).

It is capable of many general use applications as "just plain copper cable" just like any copper multi-conductor cable that is also not used for non-critical, non-category rated purposes (like your robotics project). Different communication protocols use different electrical signaling (T1 versus Ethernet/fast Ethernet/Gig Ethernet versus xDSLx ...) so some are more tolerant of ignorant and/or lazy installers doing things their own way for no good reason (i.e, it takes no additional effort to do it right).

There is far more to "Cat{anything}" than the pair twists. The type of insulation per conductor (which can be different per conductor), the thickness of the insulator per conductor (which can be different per conductor), the overall sheath material, (for Cat6, 6a) the "x" member size and material, the "lay" of one pair to another ... and many other factors.

By terminating the cable {pair},{pair},{pair},{pair} you caused a split pair on pins 3&6 and screwed the crosstalk rating for the cable, especially in full-duplex operation. The spec is established and engineered for all four pair to be terminated in their designated position. Failure to properly implement and terminate will result in sub-optimal performance. The cable may "work" .. you may get a link light (which, at best, establishes continuity and nothing else), but the performance will suffer at some level of signal density.

It is also worthy of note that the "Category" label is merely a method (like "Geranimals")) to permit someone to assemble a segment or span without sophisticated tools and instrument and be likely to have a system that meets the target Category's performance level. That assumes that the installer follow the easy-to-follow directions and guidelines.

The other option is to set up and scan the cabling system with a wide band oscilloscope and sweep generator to plot the overall characteristics of the SYSTEM (cable, panels, connectors, jumpers, keystones, etc).

The short story is "you're wrong" and a cabling system improperly implemented is a waste of money and time. The Category label only applies to properly implemented and terminated systems. All conductors must be terminated properly in the proper hardware for the desired function. Back in the Cat5 days you could buy four and six conductor Category rated cabling. It was engineered to operate as four or six conductor systems for people too stupid to realize what a waste of money that system really was.
 

Cabletek

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So then what is a cable that used to be cat6 with four RJ11 [one per pair] cubes now called?
 

Cabletek

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"Uncategorized low voltage cabling"

That's the function, and not what I asked for. No one sells a box of uncategorized low voltage wiring.

https://www.google.com/search?q=unc...99,d.cGE&fp=20dfd9fd57d92a7b&biw=1280&bih=589


The box had cat6 printed on it, so what did you change it into? IE when the engineer asks what kind of cable did you buy to run through the room you cannot tell him uncategorized low voltage wiring, and so what are you going to say other than cat6?
 

drebo

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CAT6 is an end-to-end structured cabling certification. If you buy CAT6 cable, that means that the cable itself is rated to certify to the CAT6 specification when properly installed. It does not necessarily mean that your installation of said CAT6 cable will certify properly.

For instance, if you use telco splices or low-voltage solder splices, it's not going to certify. If you use an 8P keystone jack that's meant for voice, despite being physically compatible with Ethernet, you're probably not going to certify. If you leave 2 inches of untwisted pairs on a solid core cable and then crimp a connector directly to it, you're unlikely to certify.

The CAT6 specification simply means that the end-to-end wire (patch cord to patch panel through in-wall cable to keystone to patch cord) complies with a set of electrical properties (including noise from induction from other electric sources.) When a box of solid-core cable is said to be CAT6 cable, they're simply ensuring you that their cable will comply with the CAT6 specifications when installed properly with other CAT6 rated equipment.
 

Fardringle

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To put it in non-technical terms, using CAT6 cable with improper termination is like using a very heavy duty chain on your gate, but only 'locking' it with a twist tie. Sure, the chain itself is capable of securing the gate, but if you don't use the proper equipment on the ends, then the chain becomes useless for its intended purpose.
 

imagoon

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That's the function, and not what I asked for. No one sells a box of uncategorized low voltage wiring.

https://www.google.com/search?q=unc...99,d.cGE&fp=20dfd9fd57d92a7b&biw=1280&bih=589


The box had cat6 printed on it, so what did you change it into? IE when the engineer asks what kind of cable did you buy to run through the room you cannot tell him uncategorized low voltage wiring, and so what are you going to say other than cat6?

Drebo and Fardringle got it but the cables is "Cat6 rated" meaning that it would be Cat 6 when installed end-to-end. It doesn't meet Cat6 specifications until it is installed end-to-end however.

This is one of the reasons that testing can fail if you use say: Mohawk structured cable with Belden terminations. The testing is done for the system not the cable alone. There can be suppression tricks done in the terminations that were done to deal with cable issues and vis versa.

--edit--
Actually that adds a point. Most places sell boxes of "structured cable."
 
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seepy83

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Nov 12, 2003
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This has gone way off topic from the OP and turned into a battle of semantics. If you've got a box of cable that hasn't been terminated yet, but it's rated for Cat5, or Cat5e, or Cat6, or whatever else by the manufacturer...then it is called by that category specification during conversation so that the people communicating/discussing it know what the other one is talking about.

"I have the telephone jacks in my house terminated with Cat5e cable, but my network jacks use Cat6a." Does everyone know exactly what I'm talking about and why type of cable is being used for each location and type of service? Yes? Good. End of thread derailment.
 

imagoon

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This has gone way off topic from the OP and turned into a battle of semantics. If you've got a box of cable that hasn't been terminated yet, but it's rated for Cat5, or Cat5e, or Cat6, or whatever else by the manufacturer...then it is called by that category specification during conversation so that the people communicating/discussing it know what the other one is talking about.

"I have the telephone jacks in my house terminated with Cat5e cable, but my network jacks use Cat6a." Does everyone know exactly what I'm talking about and why type of cable is being used for each location and type of service? Yes? Good. End of thread derailment.

Just because everyone is doing it doesn't mean it is right, but in reality in your scenario while we have a really good guess, it could test as Category nothing or Category something else. So even if you have Cat6A in the walls, that doesn't mean someone didn't patch to a Cat3 patch panel and a Cat5e keystone and then used a short flat cable as a patch cord and a set of coat hangers to get to the PC. At that point, your Cat6a cable is Cat nothing tested end-to-end.

In reality I am jaded with this mostly because I have found all combinations when I used to cable. Cat5e keystones attached to phone cord in the walls / Cat5 cables on the patch panel that some where on the floor were just used those phone pop connectors to get through a wall and then popped the cat5 on the other end.

And in actuality we always called it structured cable when talking about Cat-Anything in the generic and then called it "Cat6 rated" or whatever in documents and drawings. Cat5 patch -> cat6a rated cable -> cat5 keystone = category 5 install.

Granted everything I did we certified with Fluke or equivalent testers.
 

ScottMac

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The generic term is "UTP" Unshielded Twisted Pair. That includes rated and unrated multiconductor copper cabling.

Here's the tricky part; if it would otherwise qualify as UTP (i.e., 100 Ohm +/- 10%) but it has something that looks like a shield, it's actually called "screened" (because you can't have shielded UTP (shielded unshielded twisted pair).
BUT
IF it has something that looks like a shield, and it has other characteristics of shielded cable (i.e., ~150 Ohm characteristic impedance), then you have STP - "Shielded Twisted Pair"

And the way "category" rating works is that, by the standard, the entire system / span takes on the rating of the lowest rated component. For example, the bestest, most expensive, highest qualified Cat6a UTP (or STP, or S-UTP) when terminated with a voice-grade, cheap-ass RJ45 connector, becomes a voice-grade cable (at best, assuming all terminations are done correctly).
 

seepy83

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Just because everyone is doing it doesn't mean it is right

I completely disagree. Let's put together a hypothetical scenario...

I work for you, and the two of us are going to go to an office to run a couple of new network drops. You need to tell me to go to a supply house and get Category cable with a specific rating. How would you tell me to get the cable rated for Cat5e without calling it Cat5e cable?
 

Fardringle

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seepy, you would get the cable he told you to get (in your case, CAT5e cable).

But if the cable is not properly installed, then the SYSTEM is not CAT5e rated. As ScottMac said, the lowest speed/quality/category/connection component in the system determines the rating of the entire system. So if you terminate CAT6a cable with RJ11 ends, you have an expensive phone cord. It's CAT6a wire, but the ends make it a phone cord because it's not capable of being anything else.

If you use CAT6a cable but untwist several inches of bare wire at the ends before terminating, then it is no longer a CAT6a system even if you use 6a rated ends (or patch panel) because you have violated the specs of the wiring by untwisting the pairs.
 

seepy83

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Nov 12, 2003
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seepy, you would get the cable he told you to get (in your case, CAT5e cable).

But if the cable is not properly installed, then the SYSTEM is not CAT5e rated. As ScottMac said, the lowest speed/quality/category/connection component in the system determines the rating of the entire system. So if you terminate CAT6a cable with RJ11 ends, you have an expensive phone cord. It's CAT6a wire, but the ends make it a phone cord because it's not capable of being anything else.

If you use CAT6a cable but untwist several inches of bare wire at the ends before terminating, then it is no longer a CAT6a system even if you use 6a rated ends (or patch panel) because you have violated the specs of the wiring by untwisting the pairs.

I know all about the difference between the rating of a structured cable and the installation not testing to spec due to improper termination, mixing cable from one manufacturer with jacks from another, etc.

My point is, at the end of the day, when you have a box of cable that's rated for CatX, then you call it CatX cable in conversations.

People in this thread are saying that it's not proper to call it that. What i'm saying is that we need to call it something so that everyone involved in a conversation knows what we're talking about. I don't care if the cable is terminated on RJ-11, RJ-45, or if it's tied in a knot between two posts so that you can hang your clothes to dry on it...you still call it "CatX" cable in conversation.
 

Fardringle

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Nobody has said it's not proper to call cable what it is. We have said it's not proper to call a complete wiring SYSTEM something that it is not. If it is all CAT6a rated, then call it CAT6a assuming you validated that it's working properly. If it is 5e wiring in the walls, installed properly with 5e panels/ports, then it's a 5e rated system even if you use 6a patch cables from the wall ports to the computers. If it's CAT6a wire with badly terminated RJ11 ends, call it an expensive mess..
 

ScottMac

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I know all about the difference between the rating of a structured cable and the installation not testing to spec due to improper termination, mixing cable from one manufacturer with jacks from another, etc.

My point is, at the end of the day, when you have a box of cable that's rated for CatX, then you call it CatX cable in conversations.

People in this thread are saying that it's not proper to call it that. What i'm saying is that we need to call it something so that everyone involved in a conversation knows what we're talking about. I don't care if the cable is terminated on RJ-11, RJ-45, or if it's tied in a knot between two posts so that you can hang your clothes to dry on it...you still call it "CatX" cable in conversation.

To be accurate, you'd ask for UTP (or STP, or S-UTP) that meets Category {whatever} rating.

i.e., "Get me a box of UTP, try to get Cat5e rated if you can"

It's just that, people being people, they have abbreviated the discussion.

Comparable to "please get me a tissue, try to get Kleenex (or Puffs, with lotion) if you can"
 

ScottMac

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Mar 19, 2001
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This has gone way off topic from the OP and turned into a battle of semantics. If you've got a box of cable that hasn't been terminated yet, but it's rated for Cat5, or Cat5e, or Cat6, or whatever else by the manufacturer...then it is called by that category specification during conversation so that the people communicating/discussing it know what the other one is talking about.

"I have the telephone jacks in my house terminated with Cat5e cable, but my network jacks use Cat6a." Does everyone know exactly what I'm talking about and why type of cable is being used for each location and type of service? Yes? Good. End of thread derailment.

Perhaps it has gone a little OT, but I answered his question many posts back. All (eight) conductors must be terminated (properly).