Case fans, how loud is too loud?

[kwo]

OK,

I've been having some issues with overheating in a Lian-Li PC60A+ case used in a system I built for a friend.
(similar to this case, but with an axial fan blowing out the back instead of a fan blowing out the side in the bottom left)

MB: Asus A8N32 SLI Deluxe (heatpipe cooling) (2nd one - had similar problem with first, thought it was a bad board...)
CPU: AMD 3800+ X2
CPU cooler: ZALMAN CNPS7000B-ALCU 92mm 2 Ball Cooling Fan
Vid: 7800GT (single)
Mem: 2x1Gb Corsair XMS

case temps - high 40's
CPU, - supposedly just high 50's according to AsusProbe
locale - Indiana

Now, if i close the case, it'll run for a little while then - whammo, freezeups, reboots, general ickiness.

If I take the side of the case off and get a *tabletop fan* and blow the thing right at the motherboard, it will run for hours and rarely freeze up....

I had at first been attempting to use some Nexus 120 and 80mm fans (front and back, respectively.

That didn't work, so then I switched back to the stock Adda fans and still no go.

This use of a tabletop fan is obviously NOT a long term solution, so now, I'm considering getting some high CFM (and thus, high dB) Panaflo's such as these:

120mm

U1A:
Air Flow 114.7 CFM
Noise Level 45.5 dBA

H1BX
Airflow ? 103.8cfm
Noise ? 41.5dba
Rotation Speed - 2500 RPM

M1A
Airflow ? 86.5cfm
Noise ? 35.5dba
Rotation Speed - 2100 RPM

80mm

H1B
SPEED: 2950 RPM
AIR FLOW: 39.6 CFM
NOISE: 32.0 dBA

The goal was *silent* computing, hence the use of the A8N32 and it's passive cooling design in conjunction with the quiet LianLi case.

Clearly, that's just not happening. I guess my concern is that using these high db fans (45dB!) will be too loud for him. The case sits on the floor, so it's not right next to his ear..

Am I missing something obvious here? This should have been a totally adequate cooling system, in my mind...and I hate the fact that I've got to consider getting new fans...but.......what "ceiling" would you recommend? 35dB? 40dB? 45dB? I just can't decide how much cfm I can get away with without making him feel like he's in a fighter jet hanger.....

 

[Bobthelost]

The A8N32 was a poor choice (i did the same). Yes it's a passive board, but the second southbridge (or is it northbridge) needed for the extra PCIe lanes means the board sucks down a lot of power.

Look at the area around the case, mine was sat in a corner with no room for air to circulate once exhausted from the case.

Looks like you've got a 120mm intake there and an 80mm exhaust, which is the wrong way round. I think you're going to have to take a hacksaw to it to get it quiet.

 

[NuAlphaMan]

Well that's weird. I haven't heard anyone complaining about heating problems with the Lian Li cases. What HSF are you using on the CPU. Are you using to stock HSF? If so, you may want to use another HSF like the Freezer 64 Pro or the Zalman 9500. You can also add thermal paste (like AS5) to help cool down the CPU. Also, try using 120 mm fans. I find that they do a better job of moving air in the case and tend to be quieter (IMO). Are you using the fans that you have as intake fans or exhaust fans? Also, have you tried clearing your wires (i.e. wire management) to promote air flow? As for the noise level, I believe that it's subjective. What one may find to noisy, another may think it's quite and vice versa. Again that's IMO.

 

[kwo]

Originally posted by: Bobthelost
The A8N32 was a poor choice (i did the same). Yes it's a passive board, but the second southbridge (or is it northbridge) needed for the extra PCIe lanes means the board sucks down a lot of power.

yeah - it's amazing the spectrum of postings on various forums about this board. Some love it, some hate it due to constant issues with BIOS, heating, etc......

I'm actually thinking of replacing his motherboard with a more conventional, fan-cooled chipset, non-SLI nforce 4 ultra board (e.g. Asus A8N-E) as I'm unsure I'll ever get this board to be stable for him........

I just can't believe that this cooling system in this LianLi case could be that inefficient....

 

[kwo]

Originally posted by: NuAlphaMan
Well that's weird. I haven't heard anyone complaining about heating problems with the Lian Li cases. What HSF are you using on the CPU. Are you using to stock HSF? If so, you may want to use another HSF like the Freezer 64 Pro or the Zalman 9500. You can also add thermal paste (like AS5) to help cool down the CPU. Also, try using 120 mm fans. I find that they do a better job of moving air in the case and tend to be quieter (IMO). Are you using the fans that you have as intake fans or exhaust fans? Also, have you tried clearing your wires (i.e. wire management) to promote air flow? As for the noise level, I believe that it's subjective. What one may find to noisy, another may think it's quite and vice versa. Again that's IMO.

Thanks for the response - I updated my original post to show I'm using the Zalman 7000Alcu 92mm cooler on the CPU.

I'm a nut on cabling - all of it is shunting and taped/wrapped along the edges to make a very *clean* airflow, which is:

120mm front: intake
80mm back: intake with vent to blow right onto CPU
axial blower - out
PS: out

I know that noise can be quite subjective, but I guess I'm just looking for some "guidelines" before I grab more fans from Jab-Tech.....


You know, I do have a dremel, which I used to put a side intake and top blowhole in my trusty Antec SX1040 (man that steel was tough to cut through...) ...... hrrrmmmmm maybe more holes would help.......

 

[River Side]

my threshold of noise is 20dba.. if a fan's rated higher, chances are I'll hear it.. I stick to those below 20dba.. even if the CFM is less.. cuz all that matters is that air flows .. not how much air flows..

 

[kwo]

Originally posted by: River Side
cuz all that matters is that air flows .. not how much air flows..

ahh..if only that were true......

 

[Bobthelost]

The 7000 is your problem, it was a good cooler for it's day, but it's a bit crap for current stuff.

 

[kwo]

Originally posted by: Bobthelost
The 7000 is your problem, it was a good cooler for it's day, but it's a bit crap for current stuff.

Are you serious? The CNPS7000B AlCu/92mm fan can't cool a 3800+ X2?

I find that...well.....I guess I'd be mighty suprised if it was as simple as that.... I had considered the Cu, but given the vertical mounting of the board and the stated "weight limits" on the socket, I didn't want to throw something too big on there.. especially with that heatsink running right around the socket....

 

[Bobthelost]

It should be enough at stock settings, check the mounting of it. However it's the weakest point in your system at the moment. Think about a SI 120, i've got a ninja on my A8N32 and it hasn't shown any tendancy to shift.

 

[kwo]

Originally posted by: Bobthelost
It should be enough at stock settings, check the mounting of it. However it's the weakest point in your system at the moment. Think about a SI 120, i've got a ninja on my A8N32 and it hasn't shown any tendancy to shift.

I am not overclocking whatsoever - never do on other's systems. I've reseated the puppy after cleaning and rapplication of arctic ceramique in case I had goofed the first time around. I know it's on well...

Any space problems with that ninja? Do you have the 120mm fan on it?

 

[Bobthelost]

The only trouble i have is that the fan sits directly on top of the RAM, which doesn't help airflow around them at all. (hurts my overclock ability). Otherwise it fits fine.

(Yes 120mm fan fitted, no issues with component location).

 

[slpaulson]

What is your ambient temp? Those temps just don't seem right to me.
High 50s is pretty hot for your cpu. You are using thermal paste right? Mine only runs at about 33C. My case also uses only really slow Nexus fans.

 

[kwo]

Originally posted by: cRazYdood
What is your ambient temp? Those temps just don't seem right to me.
High 50s is pretty hot for your cpu. You are using thermal paste right? Mine only runs at about 33C. My case also uses only really slow Nexus fans.

Ambient is about 27-31C. That's what's so odd....

Arctic ceramique is what I use.

 

[Zap]

I think the Zalman 7000 series is perfectly fine for a stock speed x2 3800+. I'm running my overclocked x2 3800+ with a Scythe Ninja passively. Before I used that, I used a retail box AMD HSF from a socket 754 Sempron 2600+ on it - still while overclocked.

I'm thinking lowering case temps will result in stability. BTW, you aren't using a passive PSU are you? Also, are you running the Zalman undervolted? Is the system pushed against a wall or in a computer desk?

Here are my suggestions: Get an Arctic Cooling NV Silencer to dump that video card heat out the back instead of letting that extra heat rise up to the CPU area. Get one of those Silverstone fans that are the blades of a 92mm in the bolt pattern of an 80mm and use that in the rear. If you were serious about getting a different board and this guy does not overclock and isn't going to do SLI, then get something besides an Nvidia chipset because those are the HOTTEST running chipsets for A64. Theoretically all chipsets should be stable if the proper drivers are installed and all should perform near identical because of the integrated memory controller in the A64. Caveats would be the older ATI Southbridges had weak USB and HDD performance. You would lose the capability to run SLI, but you'd probably be better off getting a single, faster card in the future than trying to find a similar used card (let alone new). Likely the most common alternative chipsets besides ATI would be VIA.

 

[kwo]

Originally posted by: Zap
I'm thinking lowering case temps will result in stability. BTW, you aren't using a passive PSU are you? Also, are you running the Zalman undervolted? Is the system pushed against a wall or in a computer desk?

Seasonic S12 500W PS, has a 120mm fan
the Zalman is not using the fan controller, so running "full-blast"
The system is under a desk, but not too close to a wall...

Here are my suggestions: Get an Arctic Cooling NV Silencer to dump that video card heat out the back instead of letting that extra heat rise up to the CPU area. Get one of those Silverstone fans that are the blades of a 92mm in the bolt pattern of an 80mm and use that in the rear. If you were serious about getting a different board and this guy does not overclock and isn't going to do SLI, then get something besides an Nvidia chipset because those are the HOTTEST running chipsets for A64. Theoretically all chipsets should be stable if the proper drivers are installed and all should perform near identical because of the integrated memory controller in the A64. Caveats would be the older ATI Southbridges had weak USB and HDD performance. You would lose the capability to run SLI, but you'd probably be better off getting a single, faster card in the future than trying to find a similar used card (let alone new). Likely the most common alternative chipsets besides ATI would be VIA.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll look into the Silencer and this fan you're talking about.

MB already ordered... Asus A8N-E (Ultra nForce4 series....) Oh well......

I'm actually considering putting a blow-hole on his case and mounting a 120mm nexus on the top to blow out hot air that might be gathering at the top.....

Hrrrm..

 

[Shadowknight]

Being a silencer, I find even a Nexus running faster than 650rpm to be too loud

 

[kwo]

Originally posted by: Shadowknight
Being a silencer, I find even a Nexus running faster than 650rpm to be too loud

Good golly, don't come over to my computer room, then...

 

[Zepper]

If the noise irritates you (or nearby co-workers in an office situation), it's too loud. Otherwise it's not.

.bh.

 

[xbassman]

I'm actually considering putting a blow-hole on his case and mounting a 120mm nexus on the top to blow out hot air that might be gathering at the top

Actually Annand reviewed a case like yours and it had a 80mm top blow-hole.
His review produced decent temps.

That said... I think you should (for grins) try removing the duct and flip the fan behind your CPU so it exhausts.

I have a modified PC-60 clone that uses 2-80mm front intake, 2-80mm rear exhaust and somewhat useless 1-80mm side intake and 1-80mm top exhaust.
My AXP system ambient is always around 24-25C (75F room) and CPU overvolted and overclocked stays around 47-48C load (folding@home).

In this configuration the top fan does absolutely nothing, but if I slow down my rear exhaust fans temps start ramping up rather quickly.

 

[kwo]

Originally posted by: xbassmanThat said... I think you should (for grins) try removing the duct and flip the fan behind your CPU so it exhausts.

That was *exactly* what I was thinking of doing.

I am going to take an earlier suggestion and put one of those Silverstone 92mm->80mm fans on the back to exhaust after I remove the duct.

I am then going to exchange the heatsink for an SI-120 (again as earlier suggested)

I am also going to put a blowhole in the top.

So, I will have two exhaust fans - the back ~80mm and a top 120mm (Nexus).

This coupled with a high intake 120mm on the front (to cool the RAID array drives and such, Panaflo H1A) had better make this darn LianLi case cool or I'm going to blow a gasket at the thing.

I have yet to find anything better than my trusty ol' Antec SX1040. Best case I've ever owned. (especially after my side and top blowhole mods - thank God for dremel's)

Again, thanks so much for all the suggestions. I appreciate the help I can always look to here at Anandtech....

 

[Boyo]

kwo, please let me know how things work out because I am going through the same situation that you are encountering with a Lian Li PC7 Plus II and an Asus A8N32 mobo. Thanks.